patterns throughout the universe, unexplained by science? things like if you splashed some water and no wave came up would there be a wave that arised on the other side of the ocean? you know, unexplained patterns that prove that nature works together? i guess i'm being vague..

I don't understand what you mean really. Sounds like you're pretty loaded my friend (not that thats a problem).


Quantum mechanics will blow your mind if you start to look into it. The more you learn about the topic the more puzzled you become.

I'll have to look that up. thanks

^^ drugs reverse this

yes im a nerd

quantum physics is interesting, but it's still not really what i'm talking about and shit. I'm talking more about consistency beyond scientific proof, if it's provable. that nature creates patterns with everything, events, actions, whatever.

i guess it's as provable as your mind will follow through on it or something, i just thought i'd post this.

What kind of unexplained patterns that have been witnessed are you talking about

You know that you are contradicting yourself with this sentence?

On topic:
I asume you mean if there are things that have a consistent outcome (might be statistical) that still can't be (fully) explained:
* Wave/particle behaviour of photons
* Statistical proove of telepathy
* Mind-matter interaction

And of course observations that can't be (fully) explained:
* Dark matter
* Sprites


Well, meditate hard and go on an ayahuacsa journey to find some answers I would say.

man, i was messed up when i was writing that earlier. Anyway, i don't mean to be so hard to follow, but i've definately been told this before.

What i mean when i explain this isn't necessarily scientific, although i do agree with what you're saying about things that have a consistent outcome that still can't be fully explained, which IS what i meant to say. I get the feeling i'm confusing the hell out of what i'm saying right now, just because so many people have explained that i do this when i write.

What i was really referring to was things more like: 10 people are standing there, one person drops a bottle, then automatically a series of events take place, the next person yells across the street, the next person was just thinking of something breaking when it happened, shit like that, a series of events unexplainable, but to the extent that it seems lsd opens your mind to these things.

shit like that, unexplainable phenomenon, but to the extent that it DOES seem to happen in a sequence, that all things have actions, and reactions, causes and events, etc. When I explain these things i mean that you could splash your hand in the water, and nothing happens because it was under water, but on the other side of the ocean a wave comes up. If you were to yell into the stars "HEY LOOK! I'M HERE!" and at the same time another person(alien) on another planet happens to look up at the same time

the feeling i get from lsd is that everything is connected, all things are connected, all things are energy, and follow a flow, whether it's physical happenings, or events, or thoughts and feelings.

if you think about eating a sandwhich, who knows, a guy 3 blocks down might decide to go to subway. Anyway, it is really pointless to put all this in a post, you can't prove that shit. But none the less i brought it up, and was way too vague. I don't know if you can ever prove that. Because the patterns have no limit, they would change all the time. But if there was a genius scientist, who would be like buddha in some genius type of discovery, it would be someone who could prove that. Don't ask me how, but it think it's impossible.

After all, it's impossible to prove that feelings and emotions come from the depth of the mind, and aren't just sensations resulting in electric and chemical changes in your brain and body.

That explain it?

ok so your speaking of synchronicity
Well most of this is usually attributed to the brain trying to find patterns in things..


But I know what you mean from times I've been tripping and it always seems like it has to be more than just random events
but as far as I have heard noone has proved anything from this...what you could prove idk

LSD lets you see the patterns that your mind normally filters out. in some ways it warps your everyday perception so that patterns appear which may or may not exist in reality. for example extreme paranoia felt on lsd can become a gross distortion of reality.

think about these substances as perception altering. then think of what perception means. the answer is somewhere between that.



they are a result of electric and chemical changes in the brain and body (not to say there isn't more too it then that, unobserved or detectable). remember the important lessons of quantum mechanics one being the uncertainty principle. we can only measure so much before our measuring device distorts whats happening so much that we cant measure whats happening down at the plank scale.

people who are chronically depressed have had electrical wires put into their brain and a wave of electricity sent though it and instantly i mean instantly they felt totally different. this is one simple example. many many more are out there. even look at when you eat certain foods it changes the way you feel. theres so much happening at once in your daily life in terms of biochemical changes thoughts memories perception all at once its hard to piece it all apart in a scientific objective way. but that does not mean its impossible or that the results are meaningless.

people don't like hearing that they are just a bunch of chemicals and electrical signals. but we must understand that these are just terms we come up with to describe the phenomenon of reality. the terms and the ideas and the practical problems these ideas solve is real. it does not describe everything but remember this is language that we as humans made up and can only explain as far as language takes it. direct experience allows you to experience something and when you try to use language to describe it the meaning can change. thats why poetry is sometimes better at explaining a psychedelic experience then a scientific paper, to some people.


if i were to say the phenomenon of the human consioussness and idea of a soul is simply that our brain holds together a bunch of information and electrical currents how is this any different then anything any religion claims about the mind or soul? they may say that well the soul is not a physical thing. however if you told someone 200 years ago that sound was a physical phenomenon and you could record it they would have thought you were insane. now what does that say about our soul???? i think its the most beautiful explanation i ever could have imagined. physical matter and energy is the most infinite. and in many ways it is all connected. LSD lets you see that by altering the chemical and electrical signals in your brain.

synchronicity and the inter-connectedness of everything is something that has been known throughout different religions and mystics for millenia - i think it is a fact of nature and that psychedelics can help us to open our minds to this awareness, but trying to scientifically explain it or prove it is like trying to scientifically prove that god exists, near impossible! until our whole model of scientific thinking expands to incorporate and acknowledge the existance of things that are not currently accepted as existing... It's kind of the reason it's so hard to explain the physical side of what goes on when we're talking about experiencing something that's non-physical like emotions or the DMT trip.. This is why these discussions are so important i think because this is on the cutting edge of science accepting and attempting to explain these things, which is really the only direction science seems able to go if it to keep moving forward!

maybe, but i still believe in thought and mind and feeling being deeper and beyond physical explanations. although i guess your not implying that isn't true.

i'm not saying thats not completely untrue. i cant say for sure whether all mind is strictly controlled by measurable physical phenomenon.

however many functions of mind and our feelings are a result of physical phenomenon. i see no evidence for otherwise. does this mean the mind cannot exist outside the brain? no one can answer this question. does this mean that mind is not part of some other unmeasurable form of matter or energy? that also cannot be answered.

apparently it can be answered.

thousands of years ago, a man sat in meditation and observed the processes of physical matter and mind named sidhartha gotama also known as the buddha.

through observing and focusing on his breathing, he learned of the process of his breath connecting one to their life. One cannot live without breathing, so by observing it, he found the door to observing his other functions. Through his breath, his started observing, and apparently the grosser processes of the mind pass away to more subtle processes, revealing subtle sensations throughout the body.

tingling, heat, pain, itching, energy, feeling, and through all these sensations apparently emotions and non-permanent mind processes were discovered that pass away.

he discovered that by observing his breathing and bodily sensations, he could focus and discover the more subtle things about his mind. eventually the matter of his body was revealed, billions and billions of atoms, every second arising and passing millions of times.

he found that mind and matter arise from the same force, non-permanent vibrations, coming and going. he let these go, their attachments gone, he was not held by these un-permanent processes anymore, and said he had enlightened himself. He said the universe was composed of constant change, everything, coming and going, and since this was the process of everything, that nothing should be held onto, as it disappears.

I don't know if you believe that, but why not.

buddha was just making up explanations for the sensations he discovered during his meditation. much like we do when we drug our selves with psychedelics.

not to mention that the universe is constantly changing and filled with interconnected forces. i did not need buddhas meditation ideas to tell me that. thats a well known fact.

LSD has that side effect...things seem totally in sync with each other. I've noticed it a lot while on acid, though more with me syncing up to other people around me.

If you've read the electric kool aid acid tests, by tom wolfe, he does a good job at bringing across the feeling of synchronization that flowed throughout the pranksters.

I've DONE that meditation, it goes just like that.

you focus on your breathing, then eventually you feel sensations throughout your body, and the more you do it, the more subtle the sensations you can feel, i got to a point where i could feel hot air leaving my nostrils, and cool air coming in, tell me that type of sensation isn't subtle, and takes practice and focus to achieve. if you try that, you'll know it's hard.

it's just as he said, when i did the meditation, i started remembering and refeeling all types of feelings and thoughts from years ago, even ones from my childhood! it was like my body and mind had held in every single thing from years and years ago. I wasn't even aware of this, crap like anger from an argument i got in with my mom when i was 12, it was like my body had stored and held onto that shit forever. It was painful, and when i left, i felt one hundred times better.

why would he make up something like that? that guy was a genius, he helped hundreds and hundreds of people if not thousands or millions throughout the years since he discovered the meditation technique, heal themselves.

Doesn't it seem as though your mind would hold things not seen or heard normally by your senses on a gross level?

think of an atom, what is it? it's a subatomic particle, it's so small you can't see it without a microscope that magnifies something thousands and thousands of times. It's so tiny it takes up about the same amount of space as a grain of sand in a house, or less. And yet these things are so powerful, they make up the entire physical reality, yet they lie in such a subtle form. If you can split one of these vibrating masses of energy, with enough energy, so much power if released, it can cause a chain reaction, and destroy a city.

if you can fuse enough of these particles together with enough energy, you can create a star! and yet these things are like dust in the wind, and they hold enough power to be seen for millions and millions of miles.

Now think about your mind, in the universe, one thing lies with another. If you find mind, you're bound to find matter. Everywhere you've ever gone in your life, you've taken your mind with you. You cannot seperate your mind from the physical form of your body. But yet, how many people believe, that where there is matter, there is mind?

The buddha believed that matter couldn't exist without mind, that where there is matter there is some subtle form of mind in some way or another.

He believed that your mind worked in the same way that atoms do. Lying in such subtle powerful form within you. Have you not seen someone get so mad that was so calm previously? have you not felt such suffering in such a close time period to disappear so quickly leaving hardly a trace? The buddha said, the mind is like an atom, so subtle, so hard to distinguish from everything else, that it holds all this power and energy, and can vanish without a trace, and yet rise like a hurricane.

This is hard to explain, right? But why? This ONE THING seems to never be explained. So much is known about atoms, and physics, and light, and energy, science and instruments, computers and cars. But where is the manual for your mind?

Could this guy not have been the albert hoffman of the mind? He said that everything comes from an immense place that is beyond all that. Beyond mind and matter. He says your mind cannot be seperated from your body. There is more than just your mind, there is subtleness in yourself, there is a rise of feeling and thought that is deeper than just your mind. Your mind is just like a shell that encompasses you to your body.

When you realize that YOU don't exist, that it's not YOUR mind or YOUR body, you can let go of that, and dissolve from your mind, and dissolve from your body, and dissolve from suffering. If you take a block of ice, it will eventually melt. If you set a glass of water on the table, it will eventually evaporate.

If change is so common, then why do so many things people feel not ever seem to change. If objects can change so easily, why is it so hard for people to understand that your feeling will change also. It's not as easy to see change in a persons life as it is to see it in a world.

Buddha said EVERYTHING is subject to change, if it exists, it'll change. Your mind, the floor, the air, everything, nothing DOESN'T. you know?

i believe in the sensations and stuff that people feel during meditation. i am not disputing that it can change your consioussness. im not saying he made it up. im just saying he came up with explanations about what he felt that may or may not be correct. some things the buddha said i dont agree with. he came up with a way towards "enlightenment" that worked for him. if it helps other people in their life fine. the healing power of meditation is a great thing. i personally would never want to practice certain types of buddhism or be a monk. i like sex drugs and rock and roll and sitting in a temple for years staring at a wall to achieve a state of total calm isnt my idea of a good time.




this is a profound statement. which you even can run into this kind of idea on psychedelic drugs. i have. science is even running into this when they look at how the quantum world works. like how all particles exist and take all possible paths but only wind up in one location when you observe it. so in a way it seems mind and observation creates the reality we see.

i think this is a question worth exploring scientifically because its an idea many people have come up with. sitting around meditating about it wont really answer much more then allowing the mind to feel and be in a state to wonder is this the explanation for what i am feeling.


also if non living things have a form of mind if all matter has a form of mind i also think this is an interesting philosophical statement that so far has some merit.

remember, the type of mind i'm talking about isn't just like "well, i was thinking, the sky is nice"

the way vipassana meditators describe thought is a centralized version of something. like taking a bunch of sand and making a mound, they say thought and emotions come from 'feeling'

when your dreaming apparently there's always thought, although sometimes it's like you're not there.

i guess i mean that everything could have some thought 'essence'

personally, i like sex drugs and rock and roll. I do realize there's a point where you have to stop, and be serious.

you said some pretty interesting things in your post. What did you mean about quantam physics taking all possible paths exept when observed and then ending up in the same location? that's crazy..

i think meditation can take you deep in your mind, which is a good thing. Oh well, i wish i had more on this

as for the meditation thing, you should try what i was saying. You have to do it for an hour or more for a few days to really feel something, but when you do, you'll definately understand what i'm saying, trying that technique can get you very deep in your mind

observe the breath through your nose, eventually try and feel sensations inside and outside of the nose, whatever they may be. Eventually try and scan through every inch of your body for sensations.

i ment a particle. look it up theres a lot of nice documentaries on the subject for people who dont understand the complicated math (like me). although these documentaries are also offering an explanation for an observation. and using abstract math to put meaning to it. language again may not hold the proper explanation.

i do not personally like to meditate. although i see it as a tool to moving deep into your mind. i prefer psychedelics for this purpose. i like going deep into my mind and learning about the world around me through experience. through science i can test some of the ideas i come up with in these states. thats all im saying im offering science as a way forward. religion always seems to focus on the past and what other prophets or mystics said. i say take what they said thats useful and apply it in a more progressive way. science and religion both dont have all the answers but science and experience does a better job at explaining reality then religion.