SWIM has been wanting to purchase a bufo toadfor quite some time. I have done a lot of research on proper care and i have found contradicting arguements.

i read that u can have them live in a 20-40 gallon tank and feed them crickets, worms, roaches, spiders, other toads, and even mice. they need a lot of humidity, but care not to hyper hydrate of course.

THEN, i read someone who owned them and uses there magic, state that having a bufo alvarius live in such a prison type environment would not yeild good experiences, and the lessons would be unpleasant.

This owner states that he made a pond in his yard and placed the bufo toad in it and fed the toad in this spot and it can survive, and it doesnt leave.

my only fear is loosing him, i would love to have a nice pond set up for my hypnotoad. any advise?

I have 5 young toads in a 75 gal tank. I have not heard that if they are in a 'prison' they product bad experiences. I hope not cause that would be lame.

I was also told its hard to breed them in captivity but I am still going to try. I read you just have to recreate their environment as close as you can. I think I have 2 males a 3 females so that will help the odds.

My toads were captive bread and I was told that helps them be better adjusted to their indoor environment.

Probably not worth it to risk such an expensive toad, they like arid climates anyway so it wouldn't make much use of the pond.

It simply produces a chemical, so unless you let your superstition get the best of you the experiences will be fine.

I wanted one, but honestly I cant do it. I used to work in an aquarium way back when I wanted to be a marine biologist and I had to quit after watchng all these animals in cages..the whales and dolphins got to me

One night I drank ayahuasca and I had the experience of being every animal in captivity and felt all that depression and suffering. If I kept toads in anything less than a large pond where they are free to roam and didnt know the difference I would have to face the memory of that trip over and over.

I want to try the toad venom though.

Well said. I agree. If you treat them well perhaps you will not have a bad trip out of guilt.

(Animals aren't self-conscious)

To be totally honest, this theory has always thoroughly annoyed me. In the wild, animals are subjected to extreme conditions, constant threat of predation, and borderline starvation. Anyone who has the picture of the singing fauna from Snow White in their minds is sorely mistaken.

Getting back to the first point, animals don't even know they exist. It's like feeling bad for your computer because it never leaves your desk, or a robot because it has bad work hours. Just because we're animals and therefore they tend to react to stimulus much like we do, we personify them.

Not trying to be a jerk, I just don't want someone to be bogged down with needless guilt.

wtf? Are you kidding me? Do a little more research into animals please...good god. Your post reads like its from the middle ages.

Go kick your computer, watch what happens. As long as it aint a dam dell- all should be well. ever seen an jerk kick his dog? they have fucking emotions.. Dolphins, whales, pigs-pretty intelligent creatures. There are countless animals that even spend a large part of their time simply playing. And, according to the guy in this vid https://dmt-nexus.me/for...aspx?g=posts&t=16148 plants play as well.

I'm not saying frogs are like those seen in the lion king or finding nemo- just that the truth is we don't really have any solid idea of just how intelligent and conscious the worlds creatures are, or plants for that matter. Most assume only things with brains can be conscious. Then once the rational mind turns off that assumption can fall right through the floor. So we don't know..but we do know that they certainly feel more than a peice of machinery does.

And even if none of them are "self-conscious" (by your definition), they still feel pain. THEY ARE LIVING CREATURES, AS ARE WE. So how is it needless guilt? Should we not feel guilty when we watch a bull get tortured to death for entertainment? or when we take anythings life needlessly? When we chop down another mile of rainforest down? The mindset that sees nature as dumb and mute is what got us into this mess and it is certainly not what is going to get us out of it.

Spiced ham... err what to say um...

Have you ever seen a leopard chasing its prey?

There are people who sweep the ground in front of them to avoid stepping on any "life" found on their path. Some people will kill a fly or mosquito, without even considering the fact that they just destroyed "life." Some love their cats more than they do their family, and don't realize it. Some kill pigs and cows for a living, many many lives ended in a single day.

This tells you something about the person. How much they value life, and who they consider worthy of life, happiness, safety. You would think that the person who values the life found in everything to be more "fun" to be around than the person who goes around kicking puppies.

I would hope, that all of the toad owners of the world are nice to their toads. Matter of fact worship those guys. You'll at least seem like a nicer person. Your actions, but most importantly, your intent determines who you are.

PS. My friends' toads like having fresh water supplied everyday, but they prefer a dry media and low humidity. The dry media and low humidity helps to prevent the growth of fungus and disease. Fresh water is important, but these guys like it dry. My friends' toads like a heating pad during the winter. They ate a lot less in the winter, and hid most of the winter. The "pairs" of toads seem to enjoy each others' company. I wouldn't want to be a lonely toad in a cage.

worship those guys

I was being civil, please do the same. What I'm saying is that what you perceive as emotions in the animals are reactions to stimulus that accompany emotion for you. Therefore, you perceive it as emotion.

My main hobby is biology and zoology, I'm not some kind of cold puppy murderer. I'm just saying that those nice safe fat toads in their temperature controlled cages aren't lonely or yearning for freedom.

I've obtained some candid video footage of Antrocles "milking" his bufo alvarius.

Be forewarned: it's not for faint of heart. All sensitive PETA types are advised to smudge the room vigorously before viewing.

http://www.youtube.com/w...wLv0&feature=related

ok that was funny. But wow the poor toad!

Spiced_ham, have you ever drank Ayahuasca?

You're damn right the stimuli accompany emotion for us. In psychology, it has been postulated that the emotions are but a biological reaction like any other. What makes you think that animals wouldn't have something similar?
Also, the reactions to stimuli that you mentioned are, in our case, "caused" by our emotions in that situation (rather, we act on the emotion). Why else would a non-human animal mope around if it wasn't sad?

What exactly IS your argument, anyway? You state that you believe animals have no emotions, why?

Has anyone heard about milking the toads telepathically?

I agree. I feel like this should be the question at hand rather than milking this toad. Learn some compassion my friend for all living things. Spiced_ham your post about animals not being self-conscious and feeling bad for them is like feeling bad for our computer made me so flustered all I can respond is WTF!

For someone who claims biology and zoology as a hobby, I don't know how you claim that animals are just random automata. Yes they fill niches, and yes some animals act really stupidly (by our standards) but what else do you expect a fat, happy toad to do? Ignorance is bliss.

Though I do agree that having animals as pets (whether in cages liked reptiles or in your house like a dog) is chill as long as you treat the creatures with respect and love. Although zoos are a different story. I couldn't see why a well feed, well taken care of toad would produced negative trips. Unless it's your own guilt manifesting from harboring the creature.

~peace and love

Hmmm I’m surprised to see a Nexian making such claims about animals. I'm a postgrad biologist, and I'm of the firm opinion that some, but by no means all species, experience emotions. I find it profoundly arrogant to state we are the only species capable of this, and I'm amazed anyone could actually think that. It's like something a religious nut would state, not a biologist.

As Richard Dawkins once said "We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Yes we've come a long way as a species...but we're still animals that share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees. And just watch a documentary on these if you think animals are unable to feel emotions. Yes we have to be careful not to anthropomorphise and project our feelings onto other species (it is impossible to know what is going on in the mind of another human, let alone another species), but at the same time we must be careful not to elevate ourselves, and put ourselves in a special box.

Also, the statement that “animals aren't self-conscious” to me seems an arrogant assumption that is scientifically flawed, and one again I would expect a religious zealot to make. What of the tests on the great apes, dolphins and elephants that are fully able to recognise and contemplate their own reflection in a mirror, along with many other advanced behavioural traits. This indicates self awareness to a profound degree. Hell if you’ve been around dogs, you just know they feel emotions.

I am from Arizona. Land of the Toad. I thought of such a pet. Then another thought occurred. The toad will get lonely. He/she will need company. So Maybe 10 toads. I have watched shows about poisonous dart frogs. When they are raised in captivity they no longer produce toxin. This is because their diet alters from its natural source. I don't think this is analogous to all such amphibians but I am not sure. Nonetheless A toad should be provided with a natural diet that he/she is accostomed to. Furthermore the Toad hibernates from September to May(ish), due to the temperature drop and lack of water during these months. They are only active during the summer monsoon season. In captivity I believe he/she will be fine through the whole year. Just like a bear adapts (stays awake) through the winter if his environment is conducive. Toads do make noise (calls) in their natural environment. Having a pet IS a responsibility. If you are not up to it use mimosa bark.

Toads are much more social than we give them credit. They can/should be handled with a sense of care and commorodity. Just remember if you do get a toad to be very nice to your new friend. Would it kill you to spoil the shit out of them? IMO Building and maintaining a plush natural pond is Heaps more enjoyable than any terrarium. True Arizona is Arid. However, the toads are only active when it rains. Otherwise they'll seek a cool wet environment to cope with the desert sun.

I hope none of those comments are about me and my toads. I treat my toads very well and it is ignorant and arrogant for any of you to say otherwise.

I do not understand why you would tell me that milking my toads is any different than the practice that has gone on for thousands of years by Shaman?

My Toads want interaction with my girlfriend and I, they love the company and attention not to mention the warmth from our hands(clean hands of course). These particular toads have more character than you may expect them to have and yes they love to examine themselves in the mirror.

My toads are very happy guys in the environment I provide for them. I am currently designing a larger Plexiglas tank for them in 6 months when they are full size.

I once lived with a pair of toads that were well cared for and they may have had a better life than in the wild. I think it's OK to keep toads as long as you know up front what they need and make sure they have it. It is a long term committment.

Toads require quite a bit of care because they are "messy" (poop up a storm) and need frequent cleaning. They need a water change at least once per day. They also need a fresh supply of food. Anyone who has toad pets also has crickets. If you keep the toads well cared for, the crickets still stink up a storm (at least to me they do).

A toad can be milked without hurting it, but the toad would prefer not to be milked. They are quite social and seem to like interacting with people. They act like they are very, very smart. Anyone I've met who keeps toads all say the same thing. Toads project an aura of a sentient being.

Think about getting a toad if you want a cool pet and are willing to give good care. Otherwise, stick with plants IMHO.