omnia sunt communia!
Posts: 6024 Joined: 29-Jul-2009 Last visit: 29-Oct-2021
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Blundering_Novice wrote:Metta wrote:I say Yay!
Debunk the strassman theory that people tried bringing to reality.
Debunk the whole meditation = dmt.
edit - also the whole MAOI RIMA diet misconceptions(if not already covered) YES!!!!! By all means, debunk it. We are waiting. BTW, how are you going to do this? Ummmmmmm, I don't think we're waiting. I'm pretty sure the necessary enzymes for DMT synthesis are missing from the pineal gland/brain/cranial region. I may be mistaken, but I don't think so. Benzyme or Entropymancer can probably post the actual reference, it's been put up several places on the nexus. You seem a little feisty today b_n, everything alright? peace SB Wiki • Attitude • FAQThe Nexian • Nexus Research • The OHTIn New York, we wrote the legal number on our arms in marker...To call a lawyer if we were arrested. In Istanbul, People wrote their blood types on their arms. I hear in Egypt, They just write Their names. גם זה יעבור
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 341 Joined: 15-Oct-2009 Last visit: 11-Oct-2012
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I think your source is biased and unscientific. I dunno why there's such a big opposition towards letting people know that there's theory being passed off as truth. Sorry to hit the heart-strings.
<3
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1926 Joined: 10-May-2009 Last visit: 27-Apr-2015 Location: ☂
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SnozzleBerry wrote:Ummmmmmm, I don't think we're waiting. I'm pretty sure the necessary enzymes for DMT synthesis are missing from the pineal gland/brain/cranial region. I may be mistaken, but I don't think so. Benzyme or Entropymancer can probably post the actual reference, it's been put up several places on the nexus. No, as a matter of fact the pineal gland have all the enzymes and substrates needed for DMT synthesis. That is exactly why it is theorized that the pineal gland does synthesize DMT.
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Posts: 6739 Joined: 13-Apr-2009 Last visit: 10-Apr-2022
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Not during REM sleep, though. It's physically impossible. Isn't it?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 245 Joined: 04-Apr-2010 Last visit: 16-Jun-2010
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Metta wrote:I think your source is biased and unscientific. I dunno why there's such a big opposition towards letting people know that there's theory being passed off as truth. Sorry to hit the heart-strings.
<3 Assuming you are talking to me, thats precisely what I've been saying.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1760 Joined: 28-May-2009 Last visit: 06-May-2024
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House, I think this a great idea for a thread... even though i don't have much to add. I remember that when i first ever heard of DMT (many many moons ago), I heard someone say that you can possibly become permanently stuck in hyperspace. That is indeed a myth in my book. As we all know, we can be changed by an experience (usually for the better) after having a complete bizarre journey/teaching. Untrue roomers about such psychedelics can really freak people out and cause them to have a bad experience, as the negative untrue comments and thoughts can take over when on mind altering substances. Even when i first was told about LSD i got fed a load of scary stories. If you go into a trip with a good head space and with people you feel comfortable with, more likely than not you will have a good experience. It's all down to the individual as well. Everyone is indeed different. Anywhooters, starting to babble a bit, as i normally do. Peas to all  DK
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 245 Joined: 04-Apr-2010 Last visit: 16-Jun-2010
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SnozzleBerry wrote:Blundering_Novice wrote:Metta wrote:I say Yay!
Debunk the strassman theory that people tried bringing to reality.
Debunk the whole meditation = dmt.
edit - also the whole MAOI RIMA diet misconceptions(if not already covered) YES!!!!! By all means, debunk it. We are waiting. BTW, how are you going to do this? Ummmmmmm, I don't think we're waiting. I'm pretty sure the necessary enzymes for DMT synthesis are missing from the pineal gland/brain/cranial region. I may be mistaken, but I don't think so. Benzyme or Entropymancer can probably post the actual reference, it's been put up several places on the nexus. You seem a little feisty today b_n, everything alright? peace SB I'm fine. However, I don't think people are reading my posts closely. I've not commented on where in the body DMT comes from. What I am commenting on is that we don't know what generates dreams or meditative states, and *IF* DMT is not generated in the pineal, that does NOT mean it isn't generated elsewhere (and in fact it clearly is or it wouldn't exist in us.) Regardless of where its produced, we CAN NOT say that it is NOT involved in mystic states. We just don't know yet. Am I really alone in adopting some agnosticism here?
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omnia sunt communia!
Posts: 6024 Joined: 29-Jul-2009 Last visit: 29-Oct-2021
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Evening Glory wrote:SnozzleBerry wrote:Ummmmmmm, I don't think we're waiting. I'm pretty sure the necessary enzymes for DMT synthesis are missing from the pineal gland/brain/cranial region. I may be mistaken, but I don't think so. Benzyme or Entropymancer can probably post the actual reference, it's been put up several places on the nexus. No, as a matter of fact the pineal gland have all the enzymes and substrates needed for DMT synthesis. That is exactly why it is theorized that the pineal gland does synthesize DMT. Sources? maybe? please? Here's what I've got currently, this would mean that DMT is not synthesized in the brain/pineal. Where did you get that the pineal gland has all necessary enzymes/substrates? If it's from a peer-reviewed source, I'd love to see it. If it's your own assertion, I'm not so interested Entropymancer wrote:I don't recall which journal it was in (benzyme could probably tell you), but no rna transcripts of INMT (indoleamine n-methyl transferase, an enzyme required for DMT production) occur in the pineal. Without INMT, it's just not very likely. benzyme wrote:http://www.scribd.com/doc/13142501/Endogenous-Psychoactive-Tryptamines-Reconsidered-An-Anxiolytic-Role-for-Dimethyltryptamine-DMT"A contemporary investigation, utilizing modern genetic and structural techniques, has provided a more detailed analysis of INMT, but does not provide a complete story. In two studies, Thompson et al. [35,36], cloned, expressed, localized, and characterized the activities of rabbit and human INMT. Using Northern blot analysis, they found rabbit INMT transcripts expressed heavily in the lung, moderately in the liver, and weakly in the brain. Human
INMT was expressed in the lung, thyroid, adrenal
gland, heart, muscle, and spinal cord, but not in
the brain. The authors observe high Km values (an order of magnitude higher than in previous studies [33,34]) of TYP for recombinant human INMT and an absence of INMT mRNA transcripts in the brain. Thus, Thompson et al. conclude that the production of DMT in humans is not physiologically significant. Their conclusion places much weight on the significance of observed Km values for recombinant human INMT and does not take into account several additional genetic and enzymatic concerns." autism probably has nothing to do with DMT, and melatonin isn't an MAOI. pinoline is. Glad to hear you're well mr. novice, I would say I'm an agnostic as well and I think my positions in this thread represent that. SB Wiki • Attitude • FAQThe Nexian • Nexus Research • The OHTIn New York, we wrote the legal number on our arms in marker...To call a lawyer if we were arrested. In Istanbul, People wrote their blood types on their arms. I hear in Egypt, They just write Their names. גם זה יעבור
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 245 Joined: 04-Apr-2010 Last visit: 16-Jun-2010
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۩ wrote:Not during REM sleep, though. It's physically impossible. Isn't it? I'd like to know more about this. Anyone have a link? And, are you saying it cant be created during REM sleep, or that it can't be available to the brain during REM sleep? Sort of makes one wonder why it is found elsewhere in our tissues. Is it created and then stored elsewhere until *some event* occurs?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1926 Joined: 10-May-2009 Last visit: 27-Apr-2015 Location: ☂
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SnozzleBerry wrote:Evening Glory wrote:SnozzleBerry wrote:Ummmmmmm, I don't think we're waiting. I'm pretty sure the necessary enzymes for DMT synthesis are missing from the pineal gland/brain/cranial region. I may be mistaken, but I don't think so. Benzyme or Entropymancer can probably post the actual reference, it's been put up several places on the nexus. No, as a matter of fact the pineal gland have all the enzymes and substrates needed for DMT synthesis. That is exactly why it is theorized that the pineal gland does synthesize DMT. Sources? maybe? please? Here's what I've got currently, this would mean that DMT is not synthesized in the brain/pineal. Where did you get that the pineal gland has all necessary enzymes/substrates? If it's from a peer-reviewed source, I'd love to see it. If it's your own assertion, I'm not so interested I did not include sources because it is hard to find. The theory comes from Strassman's book, a book we both agree that is not a good source. But by adding 1 and 1, it is not so hard to understand the theory. The pineal gland produces melatonin from tryptophan. Tryptophan is the necessary starting product for synthesizing DMT too. The enzymes needed to form DMT from tryptophan is tryptophan decarboxylase and N-methyltransferase. The pineal gland does have both tryptophan decarboxylase ( 1) and a number of different N-methyltransferases ( 2). In short, this means that both the substrate and the enzymes needed for the reactions are found in the pineal gland. It does, however, not mean that DMT is in fact synthesized there. All we know is that it is naturally occuring in the body, and that the pineal gland could be the organ responsible. I have included an image of the DMT synthesis in Phalaris grass, which is assumed to occur more or less exactly the same way as in humans. Ginkgo attached the following image(s):  DMT synthesis in Phalaris.png (74kb) downloaded 224 time(s).
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1538 Joined: 24-Nov-2009 Last visit: 03-Dec-2021
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I agree it would be wise to clarify what indeed has been proven, what has been absolutely disproven, and what has yet to be proven. I have some pretty weird dream states, and I love DMT, so I'd love to eventually hear more detailed explanations for both, even if they are not necessarily intertwined. Maybe even something crazier is at hand.  But, it would be incredibly useful to clearly define the yes/no/don't know. P.S. Art, are you part wolverine?  Some things will come easy, some will be a test
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1926 Joined: 10-May-2009 Last visit: 27-Apr-2015 Location: ☂
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I just realized, the second source I linked to was not for indolethylamine N-methyltransferase, but rather phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase. I am sorry for the weird misread. Through a quick search I could not find any evidence of indolethylamine N-methyltransferases in the pineal gland, so you are indeed correct that it is an unlikely theory. I apologize!
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analytical chemist
 
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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Evening Glory wrote: In short, this means that both the substrate and the enzymes needed for the reactions are found in the pineal gland.
It does, however, not mean that DMT is in fact synthesized there. All we know is that it is naturally occuring in the body, and that the pineal gland could be the organ responsible. get ready for a debate.... the mRNA for INMT is missing from the pineal gland. can't make products if the genes necessary for protein expression are not there. I'll debunk the myth by next week. I selected INMT for my gene annotation project http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/NP_006765.4"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1926 Joined: 10-May-2009 Last visit: 27-Apr-2015 Location: ☂
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benzyme wrote:get ready for a debate....
the mRNA for INMT is missing from the pineal gland.
can't make products if the genes necessary for protein expression are not there. Yeah, read my last post, I for some strange reason misread phenylethanolamine as indolethylamine. You are indeed totally correct. benzyme wrote:I'll debunk the myth by next week. I selected INMT for my gene annotation project A really good idea! I am looking forward to see your work.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1538 Joined: 24-Nov-2009 Last visit: 03-Dec-2021
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So what other candidates in the body are there for endogenous DMT production, if not the pineal? (I'm going to sit on the sidelines and try to muster some interesting questions.  ) Some things will come easy, some will be a test
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1926 Joined: 10-May-2009 Last visit: 27-Apr-2015 Location: ☂
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The lungs is the first thing that comes to my mind... Rabbit lungs does at least have indolethylamine N-methyltransferase ( 1), so does rabbit liver.
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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lungs is one place, skeletal muscles and heart too check that paper, and notice the lack of bands in the gel for the human brain "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1926 Joined: 10-May-2009 Last visit: 27-Apr-2015 Location: ☂
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Yeah, it's a wonderful paper! I especially took note of this: "INMT mRNA was present in the rank order of lung > liver > brain (Thompson and Weinshilboum, 1998 )."
What other substances than DMT, bufotenine and 5-MeO-DMT is INMT involved in synthesizing? Is it perhaps used in catabolism too?
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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possibly, enzymes can act in the reverse direction of a reaction. since the substrate is tryptamine, indeed the question is what other products are made endogenously good question "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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