Hi everyone,

I know that Syrian rue, or harmalas in general act as MAOIs, basically extending the length of a DMT trip.

I also know that the plant Syrian Rue in itself, contains chemicals with powerful positive and negative effects on the body.

What I don't know is a good overview.

Which approach is best for which goals? I've read about 16 articles/posts already and am still confused. For example, one guy (on this forum) said he soaked 100g of Syrian Rue, in a lot of water, and accidentally drank some. He said he got strong effects from the Syrian Rue, and also that it felt "smoother" or "more positive" than the boiled version. He said that "perhaps boiling removes or destroys useful compounds in the plant".

But most people on these forums, want to extract harmine or harmaline. Why?

Here is what I want to know. I'll make a list of questions!

* What are the different effects between harmine, harmaline, or other harmaloids in the Syrian Rue plant. (i heard harmalol, or is that a joke name?)

* What kind of contams (unpleasant chemicals) can we find in Syrian Rue plant.

* Is extraction intended to remove contams... or just to make the substance more potent or smokable.

* Is it true that harmaline or harmine in themselves, can easily make you feel nauseous?

* If you "prepare yourself" by accustomising your body to the substance over a few weeks, will that reduce nausea? What is the best dose for "accustomisation"?

* So I found a few different approaches for extraction: Cold Acid baths, acid boiling, cold water baths, water boiling, and even acid-base stages.

This is a lot of info to take in and basically it was too much. Anyone got a simple overview of differences? The guy who said he soaked 100g in a lot of water and got a "strong effect"... That seems to suggest that, for some limited purposes, many of these steps might not be needed?

* What would happen if I just ate the syrian rue by itself? No acid or even water bath involved. Is this stronger or weaker than making a tea?

Sorry for so many questions, but I've been reading a lot and I still can't get an overview of relative advantages or disadvantages of extraction processes.

My personal goal... I'd like to start "accustomising" myself to Syrian Rue, to lower nausea for wen I do finally use it. But I'd like to be aware of health issues or benefits. I am not taking any medication or MDMA or anything like that

Choose one of the methods and start low. Perhaps the very easiest way is to hold a few seeds under your tongue just before you go to sleep. You can spit them out before sleeping, or not - it's not a problem if you doze off and forget to do so. I tend to tuck them between my cheek and my gum and they are still there in the morning.

Sublingual harmalas are effective at a lower dose than that via oral ingestion.

Perhaps after you've tried that out for a while you might want to try gently simmering the seeds with a pinch of ascorbic acid for around 20 minutes. It helps to be able to weigh the seeds so you know what dose you're getting. One time, I worked my way up gradually from about 1.5 grams to around 3.5; that's how you find where your nausea threshold lies - at least for that batch of seeds.

Once you've found the nausea threshold, back the dose down to just below it and carry on for as long as you can bear the taste and/or dyeing your insides yellow, or whatever the pixies tell you. You could do this daily or less frequently - again, up to you. After a time of regular rue use, you might like to test whether your nausea threshold has changed by taking that threshold dose again, then working your way up if it proves to be the case that you've developed tolerance to the nauseating effect.

Cold soaks may prove to be effective, but steps must be taken to avoid infection with pathogenic or problematic organisms if the brew is left soaking for an extended period of time. And, yes, harmalol is a real name for a real compound found in the rue seeds. It's like harmaline with the methyl group missing at the 7- position. This leaves a bare hydroxy group which gives rise to the '-ol' semantic suffix and 'harmal-' is kept to show that it's a dihydro compound (harmaline = dihydroharmine).

You can also try using rue as esphand incense if you're into ethnopharmalcological "authenticity" (and not perturbed by 'cultural appropriation'...) by throwing it onto hot coals by the handful. Be sure to give yourself a good smokebath if you do.

I find it funny that you seem to make a distinction between accustomising yourself to the rue and actually using it. Your relationship with the plant has already started and it will start doing its work as soon as it enters your alchemical vessel. It could be that it already has...

Whatever way you choose, persistence and dedication will be rewarded (and a methodical approach rather helps also).


Happy travels!

Rue as a tea can be problematic for me stomach-wise, but I find with extracted powder (even the full spectrum extract) that any nausea and/or purge is a sudden and quick thing. Comes on quick, goes away just as quick after a brief purge. Doesn't linger at all, just keep a bucket handy. Your mileage may vary of course.

Wow, this was really mindopening in its clarety and humble position.. thumbs up for this post...

Peganum harmala also contains Vascinone and Vasicine. These are quinazoline alkaloids. Wikipedia say this about their effects:



Also:



It was also stated they have vaso-dialating effects back in the day. Extracting the harmalas via the Manske procedure leaves these alkaloids behind.

-D.

Toasting rue seeds (for just a few minutes in a dry skillet until they start to pop like popcorn) and then making a tea (I boil 5g of toasted seeds with a tablespoon of vinegar until reduced to about a cup or two) is a good way to learn about one aspect of rue, harmine. Toasting improves the taste and seems to deactivate harmaline, the alkaloid that causes more nausea, body load, mobility and coordination issues. Thus you get a mostly harmine-based rue experience and much less nausea. The effects are subtle but definitely noticeable and I find they last into the next day. If you want to experiment with more harmaline, combine toasted seeds with raw seeds (eg 3g toasted + 2g raw), and adjust the ratio as your experience suggests.

I'll try to answer some of your other questions



I haven't been able to find any info on harmful substances naturally in Rue, but you should note that pesticides is always a possiblity.



The primary point of extracting any active ingredient is so that you can accurately dose yourself. The bark of 2 different MH plants can have wildly different DMT content. 50 g may work for one trip but if you get a new batch, you can't be certain that 50g will have the same effect. If you do an extraction, 50 mg of DMT is always 50 mg of DMT.

Extraction does remove most contams depending on how selecting your NPS is, but keep in mind sloppy technique will introduce new contams such as strong bases and solvents.



Most extraction teks work to varying degrees, you should look for one that has ingredients and tools you can safely access and use. Take your time and do your research and try to understand the basics of how extractions work and what you need to do to keep safe. It can be overwhelming, but you should be patient considering this can involve dangerous chemicals that you don't want in your final product. Taking a few weeks to study and learn everything can save you a trip to the hospital.

Thanks a lot!!!! Thats what I was looking for!

Some kinda info about what it is. So.... Harmaline is more nauseating than harmine? Thanks so much!

So I can just toast the seeds to reduce harmaline and reduce nausea.

I guess both are good though. And both are toxic also... if taken in the wrong way or excess... etc. But it's good to know useful "Adjustments".

Harmaline is kinda fun though - but then again, nausea doesn't really bother me or affect me that much.

I was doing toasted seeds for a while but now prefer whole [Edit: I meant to say raw!] seeds (brewed or sublingual) or my current extract. (OK, I got bored of constantly toasting and brewing seeds and it's loads easier to chip away at the extract or put a pinch of seeds under the tongue!)

What do you think the effects of harmala is?

I don't know really what its MEANT to do or CAN do...

For me... I've tried using it (alone no other psychoactives) for a few days in small doses. I've noticed a lift in mood.

I used a too large dose once and felt very unpleasant. That was about a week ago. I learnt my lesson. But afterwards I did feel the same "lift in mood".

That's a good question. I'd suggest making it a thread of its own, and including a poll.

what they do for me is pretty multi-faceted and given how many of these effects are specific to my personality it's more than likely that other people will get their own spectrum of effects. some of the effects have changed over the course of time. For example the 'plant teacher' that was often at the forefront of sessions a few months ago has shifted to a more background process, perhaps as a result of the lessons becoming integrated (or being ignored... )

Lower doses: mood lift; improved confidence; heightened sociability/"charisma"; nootropic effects including improved focus and creativity.

Medium doses: paradoxical simultaneous sedation and stimulation; heightened capacity for meditation; fantasy and mind's-eye visualisation; aphrodisiacal potential through heightened sensitivity to self and partner.

Higher doses: sensory buffering leading to visual trailing, auditory effects and proprioceptive incoordination; compelling 'waking dream' visualisation sequences; occasional mild nausea; greater sense of 'divinatory import', entailing application of psychedelic-apt experiential management modalities [e.g., stop grimacing when confronted with all the worst-case scenarios!]

But that's just a few ideas from my experiences - maybe other folk would say something different.