No ray, this is the biggest issue of AMERICA's time, not the world and the fact that you will only stop if trav ask's you to even though it may be upsetting many other member's of this community is just plain selfish and un-brotherly.

American influence is all around the world, ask anyone thats getting bombed by them right now and they will tell you that whats happening in american politics is indeed affecting the whole world.


I've made my points on this so I have nothing more to say, I don't think expressing a political view on the nexus is unbrotherly in any way and I'm sorry you feel that way.

besides, if someone doesn't like the content of the thread they don't have to read it, if I see a thread that doesn't interest me I don't read it or post in it, but thats just me.

Its in the spirit of brotherhood that I posted in the first place, I want all of you to be free from tyranny, I think thats a good reason for posting.

Well these are just your opinions. When you are talking about personal liberty and all that it is concerning the whole world, it's just how you think. Actually most people besides americans couldn't care less about the US. Especially their politics. Usually US is disliked and that is no wonder as they try to control the world too much. And even that's with money that is not theirs, but enough of this political crap.

I appreciate if there is someone who is supposedly good politician, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it.

Let’s all remember that Ron Paul is still a Republican, and a Texas Republican to boot. Personally, I’ve had my fill of Texas Republicans as President.

He opposes the war on drugs, which is a good thing, but other than that, there’s very little in his platform that would benefit the average American. Republicans, including “Tea Party” Republicans, simply don’t represent the interests of most Americans. Unless you’re a very wealthy business owner, your most important interests, including your economic interests, are not being represented by the Republican Party.

Why is it that so many Americans repeatedly vote against their own best interests?

As the fading hegemony, American politics IS world politics. We are the World Bank, we are the IMF, we control/dictate policy (to a lesser and lesser degree) throughout the Global South and even amongst many industrial "first-world" powers. This all stems back to post-WWII and makes for fascinating reading (James Peck has covered the US National Security community's attitudes/policies amazingly well in Washington's China and Ideal Illusions). I'm not saying this is good or positive, but it is what it is. If you look at the policies of everyone from North Korea and Iran to the UK and Germany to Brazil and China, you can find US influence in a major way. Hell, look at NAFTA, CAFTA and GATT, through that alone the US has the Western Hemisphere (and more) locked down in "free trade"

I really don't see why this is being brought up again though...imo, we left this at "Ron Paul has made a bunch of promises he literally can't make/keep on his own and is therefore just as much of a liar/panderer as any other politician." I suppose this has been countered in this thread with



This, however, is nothing...first off, the constitution has been gutted, largely thanks to several crucial supreme court cases and legislature such as the PATRIOT ACTs I-IV. So upholding legally irrelevant ideals that this country once touted is being equated with "doing something"...which is false. Secondly, who finances Ron Paul? This is something I have put forth in a number of threads and have seen zero replies to...this combined with the empty promises already discussed makes me feel that a1pha's post is dead-on. We're beating a dead horse; the same ideological argument is being presented with the same dearth of evidence in support of it.

Ron Pauls financial support comes from grassroots supporters and internet generated money bombs.

thanks Elru for pointing out the obvious.

^ thats all true, I believe that magical things happen when you make an effrot against the odds, the universe clears a path for those that try. I know its true because it happens to me all the time.

Ron paul is the only candidate that doesn't represent the status quo, the only candidate that even WANTS change , in order to accomplish something you must first want it, now even if there was a one in a million change Ron Paul can do what he wants to do I think its worth taking.

In the words of wayne gretzky you miss 100% of the shots you dont take'

AGREE. I don't get the Ron Paul appeal at all, he wants to dismantle freaking PUBLIC EDUCATION for crying out loud, not to mention a lot of other very beneficial government institutions. And the flat tax is completely regressive. Is it really just the ending the war on drugs thing that drives people to Ron Paul? This country and the vast majority of its people would suffer if his ideas were put into practice. Surprised to see so many here support Ron Paul.

What this country needs right now to be consistent with the standards of most other industrialized nations is to improve government programs that benefit the poor (healthcare, education, public transportation, job placement, etc.).

But on the other hand it's somewhat distasteful to mix politics and DMT...

Oh? Is that all?

Ron Paul's top individual contributers in 2008:

US Army-----------------$78,056
US Navy-----------------$56,769
US Air Force------------$55,405
Google Inc--------------$52,801
Microsoft Corp----------$47,923
US Postal Service-------$26,591
Hewlett-Packard---------$25,318
Lockheed Martin---------$23,425
Cisco Systems-----------$23,007
Boeing Co---------------$22,434
Verizon Communications--$19,944
Wachovia Corp-----------$19,629
US Dept of Defense------$19,198
General Dynamics--------$18,506
AT&T Inc----------------$17,946
Northrop Grumman--------$16,907
JPMorgan Chase & Co-----$16,072
Apple Inc---------------$15,903
Raytheon Co-------------$15,830
General Electric--------$15,000

Source

Funds contributed by industry in 2008

1 Retired-----------------$1,077,144
2 Computers/Internet------$754,752
3 Health Professionals----$571,328
4 Real Estate-------------$369,349
5 Misc Business-----------$356,793
6 Misc Finance-------------$325,020
7 Education---------------$320,415
8 Securities & Investment-$300,186
9 Business Services-------$290,816
10 Other-------------------$287,827
11 Republican/Conservative--$251,947
12 Lawyers/Law Firms--------$250,717
13 Civil Servants/Public Officials--$212,449
14 Construction Services----$187,105
15 Misc Manufacturing & Distributing-------$140,114
16 General Contractors------$129,548
17 TV/Movies/Music------------$124,366
18 Printing & Publishing--------$122,160
19 Oil & Gas-------------------$118,581
20 Special Trade Contractors--------$115,761

Source

Stats for Ron Paul's "Liberty PAC" for the 2012 campaign (thus far)

Total Receipts--------$1,201,959
Total Spent-----------$959,941
Begin Cash on Hand----$90,104
End Cash on Hand------$332,122
Debts-----------------$0

source

Seems a little more hard-core with the Washingtonian money-grubbing than you presented Ray...

I guess its all about what percentage of his support comes from grassroots as opposed to other candidates

Fixed the link elru...but also, remember, one does not a competent politician make by just voting against bills. There are things that can be done from the seat of political power...but more importantly (and seemingly ignored as we continue this discussion that I thought was essentially resolved a while ago) he can't uphold his campaign promises (as acknowledged by both those who support and oppose him)...so why are we even continuing this discussion?

EDIT: As to the post office and other groups, it is not they who send the money directly, but their PACs (and now SUPERPACs).

You might want to read this.

Politicians are like fishermen, and voters are like fish.

To get votes, politicians dangle whatever voters find attractive. They lure us in with promises they won’t keep - with promises they can’t keep. If we find their lures attractive enough, we vote for them.

We're attracted to certain politicians because they work very hard to attract us. But just like fish and fishermen, what appears on the surface to be one thing is often something entirely different. Look closely at the lure, and maybe you’ll see its true purpose.

And this.

yes this is true , this whole thing with the debt ceiling was really very bad , standards and poor has already downgraded america's rating - yes i am very active when in comes to financial market situations and thus

what happens in US does not only affect US but the rest of the world aswell , the US is currently responsible for the last economic meltdown from which the world has yet to recover and another meltdown is very possible ,

i myself had many hopes from Mr Obama -yes me being an indian has nothing to with politics of US but i am more worried about how those policies affect the whole world , the whole debt-ceiling issue raises questions as about how much agreement there is within the politicians regarding the progress and true patrotism and love for their country , more and more so its becoming a power struggle and i don't think they have anymore love for anything but themselves ,

i don't know what side is better , but what i do know is that no side is going to help any individual and bring him out of the finanical rut he is stuck in , great spiritual leaders , artists , musicans , and writers much never cared for all this political BS and i can understand why ,

it does not change anything for the common man , he has to still work , feed his family , wake up everyday and go to sleep , also no politician can save him from his ultimate demise either , they can only make things harder for this common man all the time , no matter what they promise the price to pay could be greater than a common man can !

oh yes with ron paul the common man might be able to smoke cannabis freely , hmmmm don't know how much that means since the common man has to still take care of everything else !

i have not voted yet , i am going to be 28 in a few months and probably will not vote until i am at a oppertunity to vote for myself (yes i know that might not happen but cmmon i am just hoping here )

I dunno about Ron Paul..I dunno about any politician to be honest. I used to be more in favor of Ron Paul..but I began to realize I am not in line with everything he says..but he does seem a better option than Obama.

I am not an american though so my vote would not matter..I am canadian and dont vote anyway. I stand firm behind my belief that voting is useless and with the current system voters are reduced to sheeple. If you want to make a difference make your daily life your vote. Forget politicians and spend your money wisely..make sure it gets to the right people. That is all you can do as an individual.

I would vote for an entire reevaluation of the current "deomocratic" system they keep telling us we have..but as of yet I dont see that box on any voting slips.

why are people so bothered by ray's posts?
your missing it, people aren't bothered by a ron paul thread's they are bothered by the amount of ron paul threads. there are 3 currently isn't that a bit much? he clearly said "im going to keep making these threads until trav stops me" so yea Eru i totally see that as selfish. other country's don't give a hoot about our politics and rightfully so. do you care about Denmark's elections, or Kazakhstan politics?

my point is is that the world is fed up with our political BS being forced onto their plates and i feel for them. travel abroad and you will see it first hand. amercans talk about their politic like everyone should give a crap but ive never met a single american that can off the top of their head name the leaders of the peoples country's they are speaking with.

No one is picking on ray but 3 threads on the same topic is quite redundant.

for me ive accomplished what i set out to do and that is to hopefully show ray and other ron paul supporters that making multiple threads isnt considerate of the multi national nexus community so i will bow out now.

This. Also, it irks me that Ray (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't a US citizen and goes around telling us Americans to "Wake Up" (yet is unable to defend just about every position).

(1) I'm already bothered that he's grandstanding Ron Paul (or any political figure) here at the Nexus
(2) then realize the person grandstanding isn't a US citizen
(3) in addition to not adequately addressing previous threads on the topic (Ray, I think SnozzleBerry is STILL waiting for a few items to be answered in the "Wake Up USA" thread

For example, you have yet to back up statements like:


So, just stop the current wars, leaving a vacuum of instability around the world? Do you know how many deaths would be caused by this action? How do you propose order be maintained once US troops pull back?


How? The President can't single-handedly reschedule drugs - this is a congressional issue.


Again, HOW?



If The Traveler wishes to continue discussion on this topic I propose we merge the threads into a single "Ron Paul" thread and I will take some time to adequately address the various issues. To be clear, I support many of Paul's ideas/ideals - but I prefer to keep the Nexus pure of political debate.

It's still a personal decision that is based on many factors in your life, one that should not be denied to you if you so choose. Governments preventing people from making choices only serves to confuse people, instead of letting them learn from their mistakes. I for one believe that if you believe in liberty as it was defined by our founding fathers, then its still religious (christian) tainted. I bet %90 of the founding fathers would be against abortion. Me personally, i don't like abortions either, and believe its a hard choice that someone would have to make, but saying that me or my gf/wife doesn't have the ability to choose whats right is wrong. Ron Paul is basing his decision on personal experience, then backing it up with his religion. I have a problem with that, especially if he is going to possibly be our president.