(TL;DR at the bottom!) <3

I've talked with a few of you guys in the chat for ideas on how to vape DMT, and my overall success with it. So far, it's been good. But -far- from perfect.

Back when people were first attempting this, it seemed that people used low wattage vape pen like devices that just couldn't provide enough power to vaporize what you'd need. Naturally. That's changed. I've learned a lot, and now's the time to share it with everyone, and maybe restart this discussion!

First, I'll start off with a few useful bits for anyone that wants to do an ecig like device.

Gooey or not, spice comes in a crystalline form. Most nicotine ejuice vaporizes (everything except the dry herb ones) use a liquid. This means we need a safe solution to vape.

Propelyne Glycol. Using indirect heat (near boiling water does the trick and I just take my vial and swish it around a bit to heat it up) you can saturate it at a rate of 1 gram of spice per 1mL of PG. That's a boatload of spice in a small amount of ejuice.

While the 'safety' of PG is debated, it's use across the board in nearly every ejuice flavor is enough for me to prove it's safety-ness.

Great! So we have some liquid. Just drop it on any old coil, fire it up and off to the races right?!

***WRONG***

This stuff is insanely concentrated. Before when there were just vape pens, you couldn't get enough power, now, we have the opposite problem. Too much power.

Based on my rough anecdotal research, I can vape 1 mL in anywhere from 1-4 hits on my nicotine ecig that I use all day long. That would translate to 250 mgs to 1 gram of spice in one go. Obviously. This isn't what we're after.

We want more controlled doses. *much* more controlled doses. How do we do this? This is where it gets a bit tricky.

Some of you may be familiar with the craze/phenemonon known as 'cloud chasing' when it comes to vaping. I'm going to attempt to give everyone a crash course in it right now, as it's relevant here.

The basic jist is more heat, more vapor. How do we get more heat? With more power. Measured in watts.

Since handheld vaping devices are usually powered by Lithium Ion Batteries, which are 4.2 volts when fully charged. More advanced devices (like regulated mods) have multiple of these cells, to go up to 8.4v, 12.6v, etc. (You RC builders certainly know what I'm talking about)

Then comes the actual heating element itself, a coil made out of resistance wire, (or nickel, stainless steel, and a few others are popping up in recent months for temperature control mods which I'll get into later). This is measured in ohms (and until recently was the portion of this equation that changed... until that too... changed)

For the sake of explaination we'll say the coil that was build is 0.5 ohms (also known as a sub ohm coil, ie anything under 1 ohm)

Ohms law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law ) that your total power, (in watts) is calculated by multiplying voltage by amperage.

4.2 volts x 8.4 amps = 35.28 watts.

But where did that 8.4 amps come from? Ohms law also states that amperage is calculated by dividing voltage, by the amperage:

4.2 volts divided by 0.5 ohms = 8.4 amps

Got it! Good! Don't got it? Don't worry, it gets even more complicated!

So of the 4 parts of electricity we've mentioned thus far, voltage, amperage, ohms, and watts, the only one that the end user typically changes, is the resistance of the coil. This is done through various means, different gauge wire, different kids of wire, builds, having dual coils, quad coils, etc etc. Since your voltage is constant, in order to increase your overall power in watts, to create more vapor, you build lower resistance coils.

If our example above has a half ohm (0.5) resistance, one that has 0.25 resistance, (effectively have of a half ohm) your amps double to 16.8 amps, and then moves up to 70~ watts total power.

The basic idea here, is lower resistance means more watts.

Ever heard about those stories where people have blown their faces off? Or otherwise had an ecig explode? Well. If you build a coil that's too low, it draws too much power from the source, (measured in amps), the battery goes into thermal runnaway (low resistance means more electrical flow, more flow, more heat, too much heat, and the battery can't hold it anymore, that energy has to go somewhere... so boom), and bad things happen.

Now that we have our basic understanding of how all of this works, ( don't sweat it if you don't quite get it just yet ) lets make everything even *more* complicated.

Remember that voltage being constant? In the last year and a half, the vaping world has been enveloped in 'regulated mods'. Which up/down volt the voltage from the batteries in the device, to increase watts without having to manipulate the resistance of the coils.

Still not had enough? In the last 6-9 months they've started making Temperature Control mods. Which only allow the coils to reach a certain temperature before the mod itself cuts off the power many many hundreds/thousands/hundreds of thousands of times per second to reach and maintain a specific temperature.

Ah hah! Now that sounds good right?! That's what we're after!

And you'd be correct! Unfortunately, that's only part of our equation..... what device would you buy? Why would you buy that one in particular? What about a tank? Or would you use an RDA? (Rebuildable dripping atomizer). How long do you hit it for? This is what I aim to report over a series of posts in the coming weeks/months as I continue to explore and hopefully find a simple and elegant solution to
to the ecig + dmt equation.


TL;DR -

Making a vapable solution 1mL of propelyne glycol, to 1 gram of DMT, heat to dissolve.
Intro to ecigs, cloud chasing, and ohms law
Goal - To find an ecig setup that someone could just buy, fill up with PG, and vape away.

P.S. This is currently the sole method of administration that I happen to use, and of the others who have tried it, seem to like and prefer it.
I'll continue to write more posts as I'm able to find the time and if there seems to be enough interest in documenting all of it.

This is the best post I've read so far regarding ecigs, it's my preferred roa as well, I look forward to your posts hopefully sooner rather than kater because I'm about to buy an evic vtc mini temperature mod and a crown uwell tank to further explore dmt

Actually that's not too bad of an idea. If a few of us can tackle trying out different tanks/setups we might be able to find the ideal one a lot sooner.

Currently my equipment list is a bit expansive, soon to be a few more. The Sub Tank Plus that I'm using right now works, but, it doesn't wick well, the first generation mini-RBA that came with it has juice intakes that are just way too small. And while I could mill them out, that's far from an ideal situation.

I've yet to try out my Mutation Mutank by Indulgence (Which has BY FAR the largest juicewells I've ever seen). But, it's incredibly hard to build that mini-RDA to get the correct amount of cotton, and even with my experience it took me about 15 tries to get it just right. Leaking out half an mL of ejuice sucks, but, it's really only a little bit of a mess to clean up. Losing half an mL of DMT in PG? That's another matter....

I'm also snagging up a Smoktech TFV4 to see how that works as well. Ideally I want to find one with replaceable coils that people can just buy and use. Because while I like messing around with coils and cotton and shit, not everyone else wants to. Overall idea here is to make it easier for everyone, not harder.

This is fantastic. Finally, we are getting plenty of experience and data regarding this wonderful ROA. Ironically, I just wrote up my first trip report / debrief / technical notes summary from my weekend experience (breakthrough success) which I'll post later today. Yet, in short, thanks for writing this up; my findings are very similar to yours and I too prefer this ROA by far now.

I used a Kanger 150watt mod, an Arctic tank, .5ohm coil using only 50watts. 1:6 ratio. "Queenside" flavor juice, 0mg nicotine which is a 50/50 PG/VG blend.

spoiler from my post: i started with a 1:6 ratio to be conservative to ensure some type of dosing control....haha.....still was powerful enough to unexpectedly launch me. 2 puffs. that was all she wrote....

to Vorian: I would not go with the TFV4 for spice - WAY too much vapor! it's a fabulous tank, but for spice it would be total overkill....for regular vaping it is one of my "go to" tanks - especially with the new sextuplet coil! clouds? ha! it's like creating one's own atmosphere!!!

please read my post regarding the atomizer/coil and the level of juice; some of the openings on the atomizers (where the wick is fed) are rather high and once your juice drops below that level you are going to get a very nasty, burnt hit. needless to say, that would be horribly memorable. the Arctic coils have their cotton wick openings rather low, so even when there is only about .5ml left in the tank, it's still enough to feed the coil.

anyone who tries this ROA with a sub ohm tank successfully will probably wonder why bother with any other method; this is truly the best one, at least that i've tried.

thanks again for posting; keep a lookout for my entry.

cheers!

50 watts?! Holy crap mang. hahaha! I stick to around 10-15 for the DMT tank. But I had thought diluting it and increasing the wattage to compensate, seems that it works well for you.

Also think about the flavoring as well.

Vaping anything at 50 watts is likely too much for a lot of the people I administer to, so I'm not sure how well that would go. But maybe the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

50 watts for a .5ohm coil is actually on the medium-low side; many coils are now rated up to 100-120watts for a .2ohm, and up to 70watts for a .5ohm. using a 50%PG blend, the amount of vapor is significantly less than with a VG base; won't get huge clouds. also, this particular coil does not perform very well at lower wattage.

i've toyed with the idea of trying out a Kanger pro-tank mini; it's a nice tank with a small capacity and i'd probably try out a 1ohm coil. thing i don't like about it is the restricted airflow. this would be, i believe, somewhere for someone to begin who does not have a lot of vaping experience.

admittedly, i'm a vaper and 50 watts for this particular coil was safe for me. yet, your point is well taken; many would find that amount of vapor substantial. yet, as i mentioned, i began with a fairly weak ratio - 1:6. a 1:1 ratio at 50watts/.5ohm would certainly take someone to Jupiter and back in no time. and that, for sure, is not what we're intending.

the ability to modulate one's intake easily and without reloading is probably the best attribute to this ROA - at lower ratios, multiple hits can be taken until the desired level of bliss is achieved. or, until one can't anymore...whichever comes first!

Yeah, god knows the tech is moving like greased lightning. That mutank I mentioned above, I have a -dual velocity style mini-rba- in it, with a pair of claptop coils running down to 0.15 ohms. Handles upto 150 watts, though I stay around 100-120. Wicking keeps up due to the massive size of the intake.

However, if you were able to get it to work with the arctic tank, that seems to me to suggest that diluting it thins it out enough to not clog the juice intake like it does on my subtank Plus. Interesting.

Currently I use a subtank plus that measures out to 1.12 ohms, this is with 2:1 ratio, but it doesn't wick well at all : /

i found this ratio quite perfect; you are spot-on....no clogging at all. the 50/50 blend is absolutely sufficient for easy dissolution of the xtals in the medium. some folks are going to extreme measures - using only 100% PG (yuk!) or even other liquids. for me, i want the experience to be pleasurable as well; i like vaping and the flavor is part of it.

i did try it once with a juice that had nicotine in it; very interesting. it definitely impacted the experience....sort of an "amped up" tone to it. not bad, but not something i'd want all the time. i think anything above 3mg of nicotine would be perceptible. i vape 12mg normally, but would never use that with spice.

i love the Arctic tanks; i used the first, original tank they released. since then, they're released the Arctic "Turbo"; this thing is a beast! great vapor production and awesome flavor - total of 6 coils in a 3 atomizer head - pure power! but, for spice, as i said, total overkill.

the SMOK VCT pro is another contender i might toy with. as i wrote before, their bigger tanks, while awesome for straight vaping are too much for hyperspace travel, at least that's what i believe.

Hrm. But if we diluted it even further to compensate for the increased cloud production? I haven't messed with any other tank other than the atlantis, and the subtank plus, and both of those did/do quite well in the 10-20w range. But you stated that what you use doesn't do well in the lower wattages. Hrm. Wonder how the Mutank/TFV4's do in the lower wattages.

Also 12 mgs? Dang. I'd probably choke and die. Then again, I'm usually on the RDA side of things.

ah...yes....the world of RDAs. i enjoyed that world obsessively for a while. i was really into building my own coils for almost a year. now, with the variety of sub ohm tanks i just don't bother anymore. i do keep one RDA handy for dripping a really favorite juice now and then. but, i guess i'm a sucker for convenience now.

i have a Mutank that i ordered a couple of weeks back but it was still sealed in the box - after your post i just opened it up and had a look. amazing looking tank! HUGE atomizer head....looks awesome for straight vaping - i think i'll fill 'er up today with some tasty juice.

but not spice. here's why:

the coil head is, as i said, mammoth with a large circumference. looks like there's a large amount of cotton/wicking materiel inside it as well. i bet when you fill up the tank, over 1ml of juice gets soaked up immediately by the wicks. that would mean the tank itself would essentially be empty. you'd have to fill the tank with at least 3ml of juice to keep the level above the wicking openings to avoid dry hits after the initial saturation was exhausted.

if one wants to make a large amount of liquid with spice, i suppose, a large capacity tank is a non-issue. small batches for me is preferable.

for spice, i look for a small-ish capacity (3ml or so), sub ohm tank with the wicking holes on the atomizer as close to the bottom of the tank as possible.

so far, this works quite well.

and yeah - 12mg is pretty strong. i never go above 6mg when dripping.

For me, my extractions are exclusively used for this purpose, so even at my 2:1 concentrations, I ended up with 2.6 mL of juice after 2 back to back extractions that now currently rests in my subtank plus.

I think what I'm going to do, is snag the TFV4-Mini, stuff a 6 coil down in there. and then take the juice I have in the left over tank, dilute it to 6:1 over all, and give it a go. This should be fun. Real fun.

Glad to see more posts regarding this roa, has any if you used the temperature setting yet and how did use get on, also I'm about to buy the crown uwell tank any info in regards to the wicking ect, hopefully soon we'll be able to find the right ratio at the right temp or wattage to breakthrough

Really watching this with interest guys.

I will be attempting it myself at some point soon, and will keep you posted regarding how I get on. I'm planning to go with exactly the same tank set up as DucDevil (albeit with a different battery).

Surely this has got to be the ROA of the future? :-)

I know I'm walking into the middle of a different discussion but thank you for the most well organized info of this kind I've seen anywhere. I'll be consulting this thread a lot in the future.

I'd like to share my experiences with enhanced leaf vaped in the VapeXhale Cloud EVO. I've done that several times and recently, I think I've perfected the technique with another 4 bowls. It works really well.

What I've used:
1) A VapeXhale EVO vaporizer - it's a powerful all glass electric temperature-controlled convection vaporizer. An expensive one, but it works amazingly well with everything.
2) An 18mm bubbler - the EVO has an output 18mm male joint, so it need to be connected to a 18mm mouthpiece or bubbler. A bubbler is probably going to tase better and filter out any particles that would get pulled out through the screen. The EVO typically comes with such a mouthpiece or bubbler.
3) An EVO ELB bowl - also comes with the vaporizer, but I recommend getting few extra, so you can use some exclusively for enhanced leaf.
4) Leaf to enhance - I use ABV vaped at low temp, but any medium would work. Maybe even maoi.
5) Dmt - I used some that was stored airtight in dark place, room temperature for over 4 years. So it could be a little weaker.

My dose-response curve on this setup (I use shroomery's 1-5 levels of tripping):
5-10mg - Level 1 - feeling it, but little to no visuals or impairment. Can easily walk and talk.
10-15mg - Level 2 - Definite texture visuals, body weakening, some impairment. Standing up is harder, but possible.
15-20mg - Level 3 - Heavy visuals, 3D distortions, neon patterns emerging, body starting to paralyze. Standing up not recommended.
20-25mg - Level 4 - Complete paralysis, loosing visuals connection to reality through kaleidoscopic overwhelming vizuals, loud carrier wave sound, standing up impossible.
25+mg - Probably level 5 - Never done this much yet, but this would probably be the mighty breakthrough.

So this curve seem to be almost in sync with the ideal vaping (probably just a little weaker because of dmt quality, not because of extraction efficiency, which I believe is as good as it can get with this technique)

The technique:
1) Plug in and turn on the EVO, set the dial to 10:30 (I was sucessfully vaping at 9:00-10:30, 10:30 was the best, and above 11:00 started to combust and taste bad). Let it heat up for a while, at least 15 minutes. You can prepare the bowl, while waiting for this.
2) Precisely weigh your dmt and prepare the bowl:
2) Get a small pile of herbs (0.1-0.2 g) and sprinkle your weighed dmt on top.
3(optional) Then very lightly blow hot air over it (carefully so you don't blow it apart), so it melts into the herbs. Then stir it.
4) Put it into the bowl and add a 0.05-0.1g of more herbs on top of it. Close the bowl and its ready.
5) Insert the bowl into the EVO and vape it. It you loaded less than 15mg and have deent lung capacity, it is possible to extract everything in a single hit. Just start hitting slowly and when the bubbler/mouthpiece fogs up, start pulling a little faster. After about 10 second of hitting, the fog should start clearing out meaning you've vaped everything. If you loaded more, or have less lung capacity, you should do 2-3 hits.

So that's it. If anyone has this vape, I am confirming, it can work consistently amazing for enhanced leaf. Even after 3 hits, I didn't get a slightest hint of that infamous burnt taste at the 10:30 temperature. I could hit it slow or fast, it will always deliver perfectly without burning. 21mg was enough for a completele paralyzis and a 1-2 minutes of the Level 4 kaleidoscope.

Also - I've once tried pure dmt in the EVO's glass concentrate attachment (the VapeXnail), it was at the 9:00 temperature and also worked, but I think the enhanced leaf described above is a better way. Harder to prepare, but more satysfying and consistent when actually vaped.

VG / GVG versus Volcano or something of that sorts.

There is no doubt that the VG / GVG are supremely more efficient. (due to minimal amounts of spice sticking to bags inside) I originally used the Volcano because I didn't like the idea of having a flame in my face before I passed into hyperspace and the potential safety factor; which isn't really a thing with a little mindfulness.. good on paper...

But what about health? As one vaping takes pretty long tokes how much torch exhaust is one ingesting with the VG / GVG method?

Potential downside to bag / Volcano method. Is the heated air breaking down the internals of the bag and coming into your lungs?

I felt sure someone would have already tried this, it seems perfect!

When I am reading ratios of dilution here, are you referring to diluting the 1g/ml juice? I mix my own juice from pure VG, with a small amount of 36mg 50/50 unflavoured nic and flavours. I imagine leaving out the nic. Has anyone tried straight VG? It looks like everything I have read here is a PG blend.

My regular vape is a Kanga Subtank+ on a Joyetech eVic-VTC mini. Temperature control is by far the best form of regulation I have used. I also occasionally use an RDA I don't recall the details of ATM. Either device would work without much waste I think, as the Sub Tank has the first series RBA in it which wicks right to the bottom of the tank.

If one was to make up a juice for either of these, is there an ideal temperature to vape it at? I mean with respect to getting the most impact from the spice.

I use the evic vtc mini with the uwell crown tank, I mix my dmt at a ratio of 1/6 dmt to 70/30 vg/pg no nicotine eliquid, so 1g to 6ml or 500mg to 3ml ect, at a temp of between 180-190c, 2/3 big lung fulls and i'm gone

Hey everyone! I am new here so this is my first post besides my intro essay.

This is awesome, wish I read this years ago haha lots of options!

When it comes to dreaming, I have had the best luck with the Volcano and the Vapor Bros old school box vape

Cheers,

The Wizard (disclaimer: this sorcerer should not be taken too seriously as most of the time he is deep in the astral realms)