I suppose this is rather far-fetched, but do you suppose it's possible that chaliponga might contain alkaloids other than 5-MeO DMT that when going through the digestion process can chemically interact with the DMT to produce 5-MeO DMT in vivo that would explain the subjective 5-MeO effects?

No, that's really not too far-fetched, it is actually a viable theory, but it sure needs at least in indication of compound that turns to 5meo in the body.

Just to make things few steps more anal, we already know that 5meo can turn to bufotenine in the body (as presented there) so one can argue that any 5meo traces in chaliponga actually turn to bufotenine?

polytrip, was the chali from maya? do you remember when did you buy it? do you still have any? if you do, can you measure the size of the leaves, maybe weigh how much an individual leaf weighs, and take pictures of it?

dough(quoting homer here)..i fucked-up the picture i´ve made. I can already tell you that this sample of chaliponga was from maya and rather old. Bought somewhere in 2008, i think.

I´m gonna sent some new pictures.

So old, maybe we need a new sample from fresh leaves...

Yeah, other secondaries like NMT?

D. Cabrerana and Mimosa hostilis have been my only DMT sources, so I guess I won't be able to say what the differences in the "big three" are for me until it get my shipment from holland...

Oh, i just remembered that i bought some chaliponga in 2009 as well. So it´s from 2009 instead of 2008.

The white lines below are 1 centimeter.

I don´t have those e-mails anymore. The last time i bought chaliponga must have been somewhere in 2009. I also don´t have the original plastic bag it was sent in anymore (put all the different batches of chaliponga i had in one bag), so there´s no number or anything to trace it back either.

..good work endlessness..i thought there might be a number-crunching reference program out there to assist with those small peaks..
i wonder if it's possible 5meo can be generated in small amounts by anyone's particular extraction proceedure on the plant?

Yeah, i thought of that possibility as well. That maybe somewhere in the whole proces from extraction to digestion, something happens that causes DMT to have different effects and maybe even to turn into another molecule.

Another thing i thought of was that ayahuasca brews are all both solutions as emulsions. There are tiny plant particles present in all ayahuasca brews. These particles may be digested in a different manner than the DMT that´s sort of floating around freely within the brew.

If some brews contain a lot of sludge/plant matter..the DMT in these brews may enter the bloodstream in a different manner than is the case with other brews. For instance not through the stomach walls but through the intestines.

I think the rate of absorption would probably result more in a difference in the experience quantitatively (how fast it comes on/peaks/diminishes) and less with qualitative differences (such as the visuals being built out of different kinds of building blocks and unique sensations). In my personal experience, weak to moderate to strong experiences are usually made of the same stuff, just in more complex and refined configurations. In the case of comparing mimosa to chaliponga, the visuals quite frankly seem to be made of different stuff altogether.

well..so I extracted some chaliponga to see what is really up here. I have some yellow crystal that I tested about 2.5 hours ago..only about 10mg's or so on a pinch of passiflora leaf to hold it in the bowl.

This stuff is NOT just the same as mimosa but from a different plant. I dont even know how someone could come to that concusion after bioassaying it. It is weird, feels more somatic that mimosa spice with a heavy sort of pressure body load that builds..then euphoric body sensations and colors get very saturated in a way that seems different from mimosa..remember this was a sub visionary dose..no visions just a headspace with visual enhancement and somatic effects.

It also lasted way longer than any mimosa extraction I have had. An hour later I was still buzzing and felt like I was still on my way down..it peaked fast and there is def DMT in there but then it lingers..and lingers..

The room also had this weird look to it..and a weird feel to it..I dont know how to explain it other than for at least 20 minutes things were just weird as hell..a weird alien vibe. Yes I know that DMT has a very alien vibe but this was a different feeling compared to mimosa DMT..It felt more mentally challenging than mimosa even at a little dose.

Both that weird vibe and headspace and the longer length are in line with what people say about chaliponga. It is known that ayahuasca made with chaliponga lasts longer than chacruna..

What could do this? Trace NMT, THBC and bufotenine could not contribute that much could they? Maybe they can I dont know..could there be 5meoDMT in there that is not showing up on tests for some reason? Could there be other weird beta carbolines in there?

I am afraid to smoke a full on dose of these crystals..I could see it throwing me into mental anxiety due to the weird headspace. At a light dose I can see it being useful for thinking and stuff but I dunno if I will smoke this stuff again..maybe once more just to redo the experiment and then try working with it as a snuff.

These leaves were from maya and are about 3 years old at least.

Weird stuff, but interesting. It smells like DMT but a little different from mimosa spice..def indole and burns the tounge. I will post some pics of the crystals tommorow and the tek I used cus I used a very uncommon tek.

Sounds very interesting jamie, how much did you extract from and what methods did you use?

Ive done alot of changa with chaliponga as base because i feel it adds a def weird vibe to the mix that i enjoy ;O

I extracted 20g and I used a very different tek. I used no np solvent at all and did no defat step.

I took 20g of leaf and powdered it, and brewed it with vinegar and water as you would for ayahuasca. This tea was then left to decant a day or so later when it was clear and then filtered well through cotton. It was then reduced and then evaporated completely to a resin in a food dehydrator.

It was still a bit wet at this point, so I added in sodium carb and mixed it around(I did not need to add extra water, but you might if you dry it more). Once this was dry I powdered it up and did 3 pulls with very hot 99% iso..left each pull for a day shaking here and there and then combined all pulls. This was left to settle until clear, then decanted and thoroughly filtered. Then it was evaporated on low in the dehydrator.

What I ended up with was long tranluscent yellow crytals..they look almost like selenite..I have done this tek on mimosa before years back and it worked well but never gave me crystals. It yielded a red jimjam like stuff similar to the acetate converted spice..and was potent. Endless has done a sort of similar tek with mimosa though and gotten crystals. I was not expecting any kind of crystal from the chaliponga due to fats in the leaf..but I def have some oily yellow long crystals here..I dont have a mg scale but I would say w/e I pulled it was around 2%.

The real interesting part will be testing these crystal sublinugal at some point..I quidded some leaf a couple years back and I def felt something..so if I can take 10mg's sublingual of this stuff and still get some effects than that should def be some evidence that there is something in chaliponga that is active other than just the DMT. I think corpus posted early back in this thread of him doing this with crystal he extracted and it was active.

Tannins could alter the psychedelic effect of DMT. Many tannins have slight MAOI properties. Slightly increased levels of dopamine, noradrenalin and serotonin could alter the effects of psychedelic substances. I definately believe that the difference in effects between chaliponga on the one hand and mimosa and chacruna on the other hand, is no placebo effect

^ I smoked crystal though polytrip..read the report..there was no tannins. I def feel like there is a minor alkaloid or alkaloids that have some role in the activity of chaliponga..reguardless of what peoples tests are showing. My own bioassay test tells otherwise. The idea that this is self suggestion seems silly to me. I have smoked DMT from mimosa hundreds of times. This is just different.

so I checked and the leaf I used for this extraction was maya #4..def not impotant at all and must be at least 1%+ alk content. I have 100g of the #4 still left and 25g of the #8..so I will do another extraction with the #8 to compare the 2. #8 is the one people say is so potent though and the one most people seem to have here so that fact that the #4 is like this as well for me makes me thing this is just a trait of chaliponga and not just a thing from one strain.

I've had 50g of powdered Maya #8 Chaliponga soaking for a few months in vodka, I'm hoping to test out some doses of extract in the near future with Syrian Rue and caapi. It has been a long while since I've partaken of Chaliponga, but the few times I tried it, to me personally it felt really quite distinct from either Chacruna or Mimosa, but I've not explored it much. I'm off to Peru this December for a shamanic ayahuasca retreat where I assume I'll be working with Chacruna so it will be interesting to compare the two plants.

How about getting some to endless for lab analysis?

I had some chaliponga extract that I tried this on...it gave me black goo but I think that was because I basified a IPA extract instead of just straight leaves.

Anyways so I smoked a little bit and did not feel much so then I concocted some changa(w/syrian rue extract and caapi) out of the tar stuff and loaded it in the bong. I smoked a fairly large amount and there was hardly any visuals, just a weird body high and the taste of DMT except with a bit of a minty hint to it instead of the usual floral notes.

So the body high was somewhat enjoyable there fore I figured I would try again with a higher dose.

So I then smoked a very large amount of the goo on top of some caapi branches.....

This time it the body high became very intense yet there was still no visuals(CEV or OEV)...I felt a strange slight naseau that was unfamiliar feeling to me,

So about 8-10 minutes into the weird body high trip I decided to smoke some straight DMT.

I loaded about 15mg in the bong and smoked that, then laid back down again.

So I then experienced one of the more bizzare DMT trips of my life. The visuals were very unlike anything I had ever seen before, extremely intricate yet they did seem to lack the usual pronounced neon colors I am used to seeing. The body high became extremely overpowering at this point and I had to seriously fight the urge to assume a fetal postion.

It was dark but not really what I would call unfriendly or anything, just extremely and intricately bizzare. About 7 minutes of this detailed complex strangeness and then the visuals sort of fizzled out leaving this weird intense body high, like continual rushing.

at the 10-15 minute mark there was nothing but the weird psychedelic body high. At times it felt like I was dissolving and going into a hyperspace of sorts but a purely psychological one if that makes sense at all. It was like an emotional/existensial hyperspace with no visuals. The body high then faded but persistd to the 20 minute mark.

I also noticed that throughout the experience there was a considerable elevation of my heartbeat and circulatory activity that seemed much more forced and pronounced than when I am accustomed to with regular DMT. Although I was somewhat nervous it still seemed overly pronounced, even for being afriad.

The main thing that I did not like about it was that it definitely seemed to actively block the visual experience in some way. This may be because the body high is sort of over stimulating.

Sorry to add another subjective experience filled with speculation to this thread but until someone figures out what all is in this stuff all we really have to go on is reported experiences IMO.