well I dont agree with you there, I think we shouldnt judge others.. I do think that they are creating a negative impact on the world through their drug use, and therefore it concerns me, and from all this industry affected me and people I know, it makes me have a strong opinion about it. But I dont think that cocaine users are necessarily bad people or evil or something of the sort.

I do recommend, though, for those who use cocaine here even if just ocasionaly, if they have any desire to be conscious and take responsibility for their actions, that they seriously reflect about the impact they have when supporting this nasty industry.

Endlessness

Beautifully said, the human and environmental impact is to great... Cocaine seems to depersonalize people which is pretty hectic, substances which inflate the ego are no good. I personally feel no knowledge or self awareness is gained through cocaine use so what's the point?


Much Peace and Happiness

hmmm
not to anyone in paricular..

but where were your shoes made?
your chocolate?
your coffee?
the toys your kids play with?
etc.

i think we all live in luxury at the expense of others

eco? is say econostra..

if your point is that we should attempt to be critical about every single thing we buy or consume, I completely agree. I think buying some nike shoes or some other unsustainable child-slave-labor products is horrible and its to be avoided at all costs.

though I dont think its possible to be completely impact-less, as I argued in the sustainable living threads (for example its basically impossible to have any electronic that at least part of it doesnt come from unsustainable china).. But its important to not take this as a rationalizing excuse to justify one's unbalanced actions. "oh well, BP is spilling oil all over, I might as well throw all my toxic garbage on the streets or in this clean river".. Well, not imo, that is bad logic and just serves to increase the problem.

Lastly, there are different levels of nasty industries. When we're talking about the cocaine industry, we're not just talking about a little polluting or a little this or that, we're talking about millions and millions going to the pocket of unscrupulous drug barons, poor locals being threatened and eliminated when they dont give in, huuuge amazon areas being devastated, loads of money being reverted to buying guns which are later used for kidnappings and killing of innocent people, plenty of suffering, etc etc.

The only reason the cocaine industry is so bad is because its illegal.

So again we have a cost benefit analysis. Is the cost of keeping the drug illegal worse to society then if it were legal and regulated?

I think to anyone living in a society where the cocaine trade dominates politics and organized crime should know the answer.

Does occasional cocaine use contribute to the cocaine trade? Yes but hardcore addiction is much worse and no one is saying it's a good thing to abuse cocaine like there is no tomorrow. A gram a year isn't making a dent in the industry. A gram a day is another story.

Yes.
I hope you see i am strugling with myself..
And i cant win

Cocaine is a plant extract; no different than Dmt in that regard.

If occasional users of cocaine extracted their own, like dmt, then the cocaine "industry" is not supported.

We are all against buying dmt, we should all be against buying any form of product we did not extract ourselves for obvious reasons already stated.

Occasional cocaine use is ok if it's acquired reasonably and responsibly. Same as Dmt.
That means not buying coke from dealers, just like you wouldn't buy Dmt.

IF Dmt was as popluar as cocaine, and bought and sold like coke; you would clearly see the negative environmental impact of it's business.
It is only because of our intent, and that we extract Dmt and NOT buy it, that keeps this substance Dmt environmentally safe and sacred.
And cocaine could be the same. If only people didn't buy it.

If occasional users extracted on own... but do they?

So point of needing to be critical about what one buys and the fact that all commercial cocaine supports a nasty industry still stands

Its one's own choice what he does with his own body, but if it interferes with others negatively in a significant manner I think its important to put that in evidence and question about it


btw burnt.. I agree that someone using a bit of cocaine supports less the industry than someone that uses it every day, thats pretty clear, just like someone that eats mcdonalds every day supports more than someone that eats it once in a while. But isnt it better to not go to mcdonalds at all and just dont give any money to them? Or asked differently: if that security company Blackwater which we all know the absurd things they did with the wars, raping and killing innocents, was selling some product, whatever it was.. would you buy from them?

Maybe cocaine should become a prescription-drug, available in limited amounts to people addicted to it.

I think that a prohibition of it would be possible though, without the negative effects normally associated with prohibition.
If some drugs like MDMA and cannabis would be legalised and, cocaine and heroin would in a very restricted manner be distributed by the government to people addicted to it, than the public would be 'directed' towards these less dangerous substances and people would trun their back to cocaine and heroin because these substances would lose the 'glamour' they apparently have to some people.

If all kinds of fairly safe and harmless drugs would be reasily available then there would be no 'need' for people to put themselves in danger by purchasing and using the few prohibited substances left.
In holland for instance, where i live, the percentage of kids who come into contact with drugs like cocaine and meth is lower than in most other western countries, because it's so easy and safe to buy and use cannabis. I think the availability of semi-legal cannabis prevents people from using other street drugs.

Since we keep coming back to the idea of extracting one's own in context of avoiding support of an industry with serveral variations of negative impact. Maybe we can lift the taboo of coca extraction here, as it would help anyone who is trying to not support that industry...

Actually I can honestly say that I regret any of my cocaine use during my more youthful less mature days of existence.

However just out of curiosity (and other ideas), since high quality Bolivian baby coca leaf is available here legally in U.S.,
I ordered some and tried several chews with good technique and was absolutely amazed to find that everything good about the cocaine experience (i.e. the first 10 before and 10 after minutes) was present plus. And that the desire to keep going was for the most part absent, with the exception of some of the old bad coke programming whereby the keep-it going metabolic pathway tries to assert itself.

My observation, as I'm sure many of you have made, with different plants, is that the "full spectrum" of alkaloids should be present in order to preserve mother natures balancing act that is conveyed through the plant-human symbiosis.

Coca is one such plant that has approximately a dozen different alkaloids, some of them canes, but other ones too.

Ayahuasca, Caapi vine, is one such plant that it is hard not to question the purgatives present vs the Harmalas-- which obviously can be nauseating in and of them selves.

But the interesting thing is how the isolation of alkaloids and plant actives can sometimes lose the mark, as opposed to gain it.

I think Mimosa Full Range vs pure isolated DMT is another interesting example, of which many interesting posts have revolved around.

It is also interesting how some plants may be strong enough and pleasant enough in their original state, and maybe do not warrant further refinement.
Coca may be one of those.
The effect of proper chewing really seems, although it is harder work, to be strong enough and still maintainable for productivity and focused activity.
Maybe others plants are like this too?...

Then you have some whereby a partial refining gains certain attributes but loses undesirable ones, like full range Mimosa extract.

And then there are those whereby a full refinement of one particular alkaloid seems superior.
Ron's feeling about Mescaline, as separated from the other Cactus alkaloids comes to mind.

I guess ultimately, for my current thought process, I question the deciding process by which we determine how far to refine plants, in order to preserve the healing potential-- which I can not help but project, is the most desirable intention with all our plant investigations.

This is the primary motivation for considering rejection of smoking DMT vs taking it orally.
I realize that I am projecting once again; but in reading peoples DMT experiences I never seem to feel that any kind of life changing healing evolution has taken place in the trip reports-- especially as compared to Ayahuasca experiences.


Then, personally I think even one should examine Pharma vs Aya and make sure one isn't losing a crucial healing component there as well.

Should not the healing potential and effect be the deciding factor upon which we base our furthered refinement of the plants?

My apologies for this digression from the thread's theme as stated.

However, sometimes, certain deviations in threads raise issues that may be universally applied across the board, and maybe even deserving of another thread.

Why is full range Coca extraction taboo and banned from the Nexus?
That's another question I am curious about.
Maybe it is just the former coca devil in me coming out
That is, what is the deciding factor in determining which plants can be discussed and which ones can not here?

I find this a really cool observation, and would expand it beyond alkaloids to include things like sugar. Honey, I understand, has an amazing number of health benefits that one does not get from any human-processed form of sugar. I wonder if the same is true of cane and other sugars.

I'm sorry, I miswrote. I meant to state it non determinative and say: Sometimes, the "full spectrum" of alkaloids preserves.
And sometimes it may not, as in a plant that has unneeded or wanted purgative effects that undermine the full healing potential.

maybe the public isn't ready to have coke heads around like the 80's..prescribed or restricted the lowest common denominator people will cycle it back into illegality imo

hrmm - i guess my vote goes to - "depending on source"
full spectrum extracts are great to overboardly powerfull and the extraction is disgustingly easy.

Initially I voted yes, but after reading others posts I have decided that I am on the fence.
SWIM had a very very pure connection with this molecule in DC. Ultimately, he almost failed out of college because of that substance. He just likes it too much!
All of the cut nonsense that flies around the here is just that: Nonsense. It is the worst to get a nose full of baby laxative and foot powder.
Swim has steered clear of that substance, especially since his birthday where he was drunk, took too much LSD, and took a line of cocaine. That is the only negative hallucinogenic experience SWIM has ever had.

IS it possible that we can reform our taboo, here at the nexus, on Coca extraction; if even for the simple reason that anyone that can be turned away from supporting an awful industry with various killing and karma, and cuts that make one gag, and risky bad neighborhoods, and nights that never end in peace.

Well the logical answer is: Just chew some High quality Coca and be happy.
The truth is SWIM just ordered some more high quality Baby Bolivian Coca Leaves, fresh stock. (legal now in U.S.)
They're rather expensive though; actually 100 grams of leaves for 64 dollars including shipping.

WOW, I could buy a half gram of decent coke for that price-- but I wouldn't now, thanks to finding these leaves.
Not that I would have anyway -- honestly, thanks to having finally moved somewhere where it is practically unavailable.
And finally realizing that the pain far exceeds the gain.

But actually what is interesting, is that after chewing effectively for the first time, I have to say, that I am practically satisfied with all the effect that that system/sublingual technology can glean.

And comparatively, I have to say-- with the exception of one night whereby I chewed too much and my mouth was sore for a couple of days--
that it is SO, SO much more enjoyable this way.

And it still made me want a cigarette -- weird...

And interestingly, instead of several hours, 100 grams of leaves will last me at least 2 weeks, if not a month-- this time:

However, would still like for novelties' sake, to once try a slight refinement of chew technique.
Would like to make a full spectrum extract that takes less chewing.

I have heard that Alkaloids are soluable in Limonene, therefore:
Basify with Sodium Carbonate, pull with Limonene and then salt with Vinegar.
What do you guys think?
Please don't ban me for this idea...

Did I digress or what?

You can legally buy coca leaf in the US?.. Why have I not heard of this?

MODERATOR EDIT: NO SUPPLIERS OUTSIDE THE SUPPLIERS SUBFORUM!

Anyway this is the website, excuse me if this belongs in the vendors forums.

The craziest thing is that they even sell Lejia, and refer to it as "Alkaloid Activator"!

In other words, chewing Coca is basically legal in the U.S.

If I dare say.

Very interesting. I assume this applies to Canada as well?

So just curious is discussion of coca leaf extraction ok or not ok?