Good idea changing the title.

Hello, I am a newcomer who registered on the Nexus mainly because of this debate.

I would just like to say that this is an important issue and I hope to see it discussed in depth.

What I heard so far, apart from OP, is mostly cautious advice. Complacent towards the normative status quo trance of our actuality.

I would like to see the in medias res part of the debate - I know these people are out there. Mostly the ones who write at a forum like this are the people who either "were thinking about it, but decided not to go ahead with the plan" or "I once tried something like it, but didn't really set it all in motion in the end".

I am not sure if this is the place to share my own experience and stories, but by writing this down I guess I just began realizing that my own plans are failing all around me... Feels really weird, my friends.

I hope you will be able to believe me when I say that I am now sitting here, knowing my chance has passed. From the point of view of someone who is just now feeling the reverberations of what an idea like this could one day become, I am full of doubts, self-hatred, pity and a sense of coiled up daemonic/vampiric/egoistical/wetico energy I never thought possible.

(What happened? I played it too safe, didn't want to risk anyone and anything, kept my head down, built supports and fail-safe mechanisms all the way...)

When you try and you don't make it, it really hurts. But it hurts REAL bad when you know that you didn't give your first attempt what it really required...

So just if you do decide to bring us something dangerous and magnificent like another new view on life, another mix of concepts and methods, tips and tricks... PLEASE give it your best and your all.

I really wish you will get a chance to realize at least some version of it. And I really hope that I will get a second chance. I think it is worth the pain and fear. Do you know why I think it is worth it? Because the teachings you study through the substance teach you ways how to fight Suffering and Terror... I am not sure there are other ways to do that. The substance gives you the tools and the know-how... and the laws of nature give you some obstacles in the form of pain and fear.



We are the hippies and punks forced to fight the Fourth World War. There are no roads left to walk safely unless we built them.



(sorry if my wall of text is annoying or if I got derailed... Thank you all for trying to understand my situation, this is a very loaded topic for me and I didn't get the chance to talk about it at all for many, many months. I feel so stupid for not reading more of the Nexus now! But it always seemed that books and direct experience are more useful.)

When I was young dropping acid constantly the group I was in had similiar ideals, well all of them are dead or incarcerated.

just mind your own business and get what you can outta all this.

I always thought it would be dirt easy to start a cult using DMT

SebastianSystem, if you feel comfortable enough to do so, could you please tell us a little more about what has happened? It seems as though you have not carried something out, and this is now filling you with deep regret.

Given that you have posted in this thread, it could be read that have had the opportunity to formulate your own belief system and not followed it through. However, maybe this thread has reminded you of a different goal you have not achieved or carried out, and resonated with you on that level.

I would say this is the place to share your experiences and stories. Sounds like you have an interesting story to tell, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

Peace

Macre

Groups like this i'm sure already exist. I know there is a christian ayahuasca group for example. It is in Brazil but i'm sure many similar groups who aspire to using these substances in there main practice are scattered all around the world. And its most probable some have tried to create a reach out for the mainstream, but you can't even fly this stuff through a library bill board ad.

In Canada, Dr. Gabor Mate uses Ayahuasca for healing people with addictions and traumatic lives. I'm not sure if it is often or rare but you would never guess.

Anyway good luck.

Two, actually. Santo Daime and UDV.

Thanks for your reply!

Well what I meant by this not being the place is this thread, because it's not about me and the people around me attempting to create some new and interesting view of life. I'm not even sure if I'm ready to present it at all.

It was an attempt at creating a method for self-reflection. Knowing yourself and building a consensus with people around you. In time, this method created other "projects".

The initial method is still working and it is still usable, but it is so hard and soul-crushing to use (because it really digs deep into one's being) that we don't do it as often as we should.

The projects that were created thanks to the method were something I will call "community", "discussion" and "direction".

The community project is working I think, but the "discussion" is what I'm concerned about.

Basically the "discussion" project is a cult in the sense that culture is a cult... the word cult is close to cultivation. And I think our culture is a series of interconnected cults (money, success, health, power...). I wanted to propose a cult that would put something else as an overarching theme. What I want is a cult of freedom, a systemic cult that would basically work as a place for people to gather together, share their ideas and resources and aim for increasing freedom overall.

Just talking about what freedom is would work, I think. I base the whole idea on the Bohm dialogue and on the premise that our language structures our thoughts.

The goal is something of a regular gathering of people, who would share their use of language for the collective creation of a working concept of what freedom means. This way, it would sooner or later lead to a shared concept of freedom in the minds of all people that decide to join in.

The whole project is crumbling down around be because I spent the last six months trying to prepare some vision that would fit the goal. Some kind of presentation... The problem is that by already working on the method and community projects, I kinda spent the last three years in a weird state of self-reflection and attempts at self-improvement that lead me to a place where I find all of current culture so abhorrent and regressive that I can't seem to find a way to see things in a positive light.

Right now, I'm at a dead end and I spread out my resources out too thin. My head feels like it's going to explode and I can't even go downtown without getting into some argument with the police or some guys who are clearly up to no good. I have a feeling that I entered some "grey zone" of morality, which allows me to create a view of culture based on some form of humanism... but where to start and how not to get into more trouble is beyond me.

The key thing is that I really think I found a way to go around most of the controversial stuff, like the theism/nontheism debate... or the psychoactive substances and activities debate... I think the "discussion" project is really worth trying, but I missed a big opportunity a long time ago and now I don't seem to have the energy to go through with it.

Why I missed that opportunity is a very entertaining story in itself, because I got involved in the porn industry as a translator and copywriter for a few websites and I fell in love madly with a wonderful woman that unfortunately had a guy at the time. The combination of these libidinal forces from the opposite ends of the spectrum just crushed me into an emotional wreck of hate and lust. It all went on for almost two years and if it wasn't for the "community" project, I know I would do something really stupid.

The fact is that I feel broken and unworthy of starting something like this cult I have in mind. When I go through my life, there were smaller and bigger attempts to start a cult throughout my life for the last 15 years. I really have a lot of experience with "almost starting a cult but failing due to fear and pain". This last one is just the most honest one and (being fueled by DMT and other substances in a meditative intersubjective context) the most intense attempt yet.

I would at least like to provide my view on things if CrazySage decides to give us some details about his own plan!

If you want to start in a path of a shaman, I highly recommend this read: Medicine for the Soul by Ross Heaven. First thing you must learn is to keep hush about your path and heal people when they are in need or ask for it. And never claim to be one. Also the best healing is to be a constant beacon of light and be aware of it as you walk in this world everyday and constantly beam energy/unconditional love at people around you. Also here's my 2 cents regarding organized religion, it is the downfall of humanity. Each and everyone should have their own belief system, all you need to do is set an example and people will naturally follow you because they see a change in you. You should help people see differently but it's not done through organized religion. Your body is your own temple, no need to go to church and become a follower. You should encourage people to be independent and become their own leaders(retrieve their own power) and always question authority. Freedom and love is the key. You should become a spiritual Catalyst, and let them do the rest.

SebastianSystem: You have already mentioned Bohm Dialogue, though this idea almost reminds me of a cross between Bohm Dialogue and the Rastafari movement. The similarity to Bohm Dialogue seems to be in the sense that you use group conversation to explore a relationship between thoughts and reality. The similarity I see with the Rastafari movement is where you would use discussion to explore ideas with the broad focus on eventually ascertaining freedom.

The difference I see between your idea and Bohm Dialogue is that Bohm Dialogue does not set a goal or action to be reached by the discussion (say for instance understanding the nature of freedom), apart from perhaps gaining a form of understanding about the group in which the dialogue is taking place.

With regards to the Rastafari movement, your idea that culture is almost like a series of cults (money, success, power…) bears a resemblance to the Rastafari concept of Babylon. The idea of a freedom cult as an overarching theme almost bears a resemblance to the Rastafari concept of Zion. You would use discussion in a manner similar to how the Rastafari would use reasoning to explore insight and gain a general consensus. The difference between your idea and the Rastafari movement is that your idea is not based around any doctrine and has no particularly defined Supreme Being, incarnations or prophets.

You do not have to argue with the Police or people who you see as up to no good. You have the choice not to act on any impulse of this nature, and it would probably be in your best interest not to carry out such actions. You can choose not to get into trouble by simply not carrying out an act that would result in such.

What you do with your life is up to you, but maybe you could take a break from any such idea and just focus on living. This may sound difficult if you have achieved a mind-set that is unenchanted with society; though it could help you achieve some form of balance. Focussing on missed opportunities or any sense of unworthiness you may feel about yourself; will only serve to deepen or hamper progress from your feelings of being broken.

Humanity has a lot of problems, but it also has a lot of inherent beauty. Balance is extremely important, and whilst exploring or pondering the deepest and most profound questions is one thing, enjoying the small things and “normal” everyday existence is just as profound and just as beautiful.

Peace

Macre

Maybe it's just me but I can't help noticing that women don't ever seem to start these things.

Hmmmmm.....

Ha. I had never consider that before. Interesting point.

The lessons that the tryptamine psychs have to teach us as humanity are vast and profound. I do believe that it is imperative to the proper evolution of humanity that their message is broadcast.But I dont think a cult, and the unavoidable egos and personalities that will be involved is the way. Something like that would be looked upon by the uninformed masses as something probably downright evil. Read any of the news reports that have featured DMT of late and you will be astonished at the amount of spin and twisting and downright BS that is spewed by the media juggernaut to throw mud at our sacrament. Now imagine a wild eyed, religion creating guru being the representative of the DMT spirit on Fox news!

Yes, I do understand how you feel , and it seems from responses here that many of our fellows do as well. On my first real experiments with DMT, I felt as if I (I!) had been "gifted" with this beautiful, enlightening experience. I wondered if there were people who could intuit that I was "awake" by seeing my aura or something, and when noone seemed to, began to think noone else could. I was a vessel cracking with the light poured into it. Now I see that I was going off the deep end, deluded with grandeur, an estimated prophet of sorts, when really, I'm just a saint of circumstance.

Studying all kinds of esoteric systems, from the Golden Dawn, alchemy, tarot, AMORC, Gnosticism, yes, Goetia, Kabbala, etc, at the time probably helped push me into the deep water though. In the end these studies helped me see some of the truth behind the curtain, but also led me further from the truth. The diffeent types of language applied to these experiences become very confusing. Then when you add the deliberate blinds attached to many majick texts, good luck with your enlightenment there, try not to get burned. I'm not saying these paths are worthless, far from it, just old and secretive. We are in the information age, we dont need to conceal the truth anymore, it is time to revaeal it.

We do need to bring the message that DMT is using us to disseminate to the people,. But not as a religion or cult. I'm desperately trying to remove the mystical, new agey and religious language from the majority of my discourse on this subject. I do feel as if my calling has something to do with this, I am dedicating my life to spreading the healing message of the Spirit, but through channels that can reach the largest amount of people in the least offensive way. It is important. It has to do with healing ourselves, each other, the planet and finally God himself. He is having a identity crisis, y'know.

"The more I learn, the less I know."

Can you define your use of the terms 'truth' and 'know'? You seem to use both in a very loose sense.

You didn't answer my question. Are you trolling us?

I thought everyone knew being ambiguous was the same as being enlightened.