Sorry I think you guys misinterpreted what I'm saying here, and sorry if i offended you jaime and when i said most people didnt mean the general public talking about how most people that take certain substances dont see the dark side to them. Example I know countless people that do coke, drop lsd and mdma every week at parties and such thinking they are doing them good when they are blind to what is really happening which i described in previous post. Also Im in no way and never talked against dmt or synthetic psyilcibin, these 2 i believe have high potential for healing, esp when extracted and used with care and respect. And no Im not saying that only plants have spirit, this is rediculious, indeed anything can hold spirits. Im talking about the chemicals from pharmasutacal companies, manufactured mdma, cocaine...It all has to do with the process from source to product. The plants that the substances are derived from are highly disrespected and abused to get where they are. For example mdma is the product of heinous deforestation through criminal organizations in Cambodia. Same with cocaine.. These are what drive away the healing and protective spirits in the plants. And you need to consider theyre mixed with all kinds of unhealthy fillers as well. Show love and respect to the plants and they will show it back.

^what does LSD have to do with that though? Cocaine we know contributes to destruction of the rainforest etc..MDMA I dont know about that..but why throw in things like LSD? Do you have some proof that these people who drop acid weekly are harming themselves with some sort of dark side to the chemical? I never got into LSD really, only dropped acid a couple times years ago. I was always more into plant alkaloids but I know lots of people who drop acid on a regular basis and it seems to only do them good. There is no evidence that LSD is addictive or toxic..it is one of the safest substances known and is basically proven at this point to be benificial. Are you just assuming this is harming people because of your own beliefs or do you have evidence for this? Why is LSD lumped in there with MDMA and cocaine?..just because it is synthed in a lab from ergot or soemthing?

Just becasue something is snythed in a lab does not mean it was not made with integrity or in a loving positive way with good intentions. This is a huge part of what alchemy is about. Lots of psychedelic chemists are out there who are basically alchemists making these things for the good of humanity..at the same time there are people out there growing plants like cannabis in little tiny rooms drowing them in all kinds of synthetic nutrients etc, only thinking about money and even killing other people in drug wars etc.

This is all relative..plant, plant chemicals or synthetic..I agree with what you are saying about intention but that can be applied to anything and everything..even lab chemicals. I would stay away from big pharma products becasue of this. I think Big Pharma is negative magick..sure there is spirit there too..but it's very negative.

lsd is one of the harder ones to argue, it is almost purely chemical based, not nature based so instead of taking you into realms of nature/the universe and connecting you to nature ur spirit and body, it leads you into a sort of fake realm and like described before has sort of trixter quality high probablity of feeding the ego and false sense of happiness, and it has no kind of guiding spirit within the lsd. Same thing with all research chemicals. Is there physical proof to this, no, but we are living in a world far beyond traditional science. Because of this I think Terence mckenna never promoted one of these in his entire life. He never denounced them either, because he was too smart for that. Im coming out on this because I unlike him dont have anything to loose here. And again with the plants yes everything has to do with how the plants were treated and used, towards whether they will benefit or harm.

It's derived from the ergot fungus; the same fungus that was allegedly used in the psychoactive initiatory brew kykkeon at the Greek Elyeusian mystery schools.

Thats just your opinion and it'd be helpful to the conversation if you stop acting as if its such a solid fact. Almost everyone here will disagree with you on this it seems.

How much deep experience do you even have with lsd? What you said doesn't resonate with my experiences at all. And the whole question of what is 'natural' is another debate and a ball of wax i really don't feel like getting into hahahah

Also saying terence never 'promoted' lsd is just silly (and so what if he never did? i love the guy but he also said the eschaton would condense last friday and that never happened as far as i know...so constantly citing him as if he only speaks the truth is just stupid)

Terence did talk about lsd several times and proclaimed his love for it..one of the reasons he didn't talk about it much is because he was actually involved in the lsd trade for years...he also took it often himself in the 90's, albeit in lower doses usually. He once said he'd taken it over 150 times. He also recommended that if people are interested in it then the way he found most useful was to take big doses of it every 3 months or something

thnks universe lots of info never knew about him, I also think modulation with just about anything is important. And what i said about him just a thought not a belief, so no its not fact just speculation . Knew he used it a lot but I think mostly in in his earlier years though, as have i. I took lsd and research chems countless times, and what i said about it in previous posts is what concluded through experience. And with this, im not talking about a persons personal relationship to the substances, Im talking about the substances and their nature themselves.

MDMA production destroys natural habitats of animals and pollutes the forests. MDMA yuck

LSD I can't really see any harm in the production, its actually only semi synthetic as it is developed from a natural fungus.

yes i said mostly chemical based, because of this fungus its much better than other chemical psychadelics, and also consider its very difficult to come across pure lsd now adays, but it cannot compare to traditional plant hallucinogens ..and yes thank god it doesnt contribute to destruction of nature

DMT was first synthesized before it was ever found to be a natural substance. Maybe the same will be true for LSD, who knows. If it was found in a plant, maybe even consumed by some obscure tribe, would it change your opinion on it?

The fact that a substance is synthetic has no bearing on whether its more or less useful or spiritual or whatever, this is merely a personal bias or belief.

I think it would be relevant to cite some more tangible criteria on what makes a substance more or less desirable, instead of falling for the fallacious ´natural vs unnatural´ or ´because person X or tribe Y said so´ kind of arguments.

Knowing these criteria also change depending on context and person, some of the things that I would personally take in account are:

- Sustainability of source
- Potential to generate deep learning and transformative experiences
- Good therapeutic index (meaning the active dose is as far as possible from the toxic dose)
- Appropriate health profile in general (addictive potential, side effects, etc)

Im sure there are more things, these are just taken off the top of my head..

What else would be important for you guys and gals?

thats not really true, but we probably shouldn't get into that topic



again, thats just YOUR opinion. What about all the people who actually prefer lsd to mushrooms...are they somehow 'wrong' or misguided? To each their own, imo

It seems like your trying to objectively define what lsd is in a broad context on the basis of your own personal and subjective experience with it...thats just projecting/generalizing your own beliefs and biases and doesn't make any sense or have any relevance to the overall reality of the situation

dont know where u live but where i live pure lsd is almost impossible to get. And these are just thoughts and ideas Im spreading, not facts and like i said before i dont want or expect you to believe anything im saying, We can each need to find our own truths and people can have different truths, im just sharing my experiences and thoughts/ideas here, you should read the new thread "Sacred, scientific, and heated discussions"

Well a big issue in this thread is that you haven't been presenting these "ideas" you're passing around as ideas because that's not how they've been coming across.

While on a trip to Peru I drank ayahuasca three times (my first encounters) and my third time was by far the most powerful and profound experience, just myself my best friend and a master shaman. He drank the ayahuasca too and then proceeded to chew coca leaves for much of the night! I guess it may help keep one focused and awake to some degree, but coca leaves in their natural form are invigorating and healthy, containing a number of vitamins and minerals and only a little pinch of cocaine and are a very different beast to the drug encountered on the street. Personally I would have no interest in combining street cocaine and DMT. Stimulants such as cocaine obviously have powerful effects on your heart and blood pressure, but so does DMT. Cocaine in particular constricts blood vessels while increasing heart rate, putting serious stress on your heart. So I think combining the two could be physiologically risky and I would expect it to detract psychologically too. To me DMT gives so much, and cocaine only really takes...I'm not a fan, it does very little to or for me, and as well as the environmental and human destruction it causes, of the people I encounter on cocaine, some of them having a serious problem, none of them seem happy people to me, it doesn't seem to make them any happier, and it seems like they are trying to self medicate for something (so maybe their cocaine use is more of a symptom than an effect).

Same here. I might have been out of line and unclear with many of my posts so very sorry. We are all human after all, which means we all have a ego and that ego can sometimes get the best of us. The last thing i ever want to do is spread any kind negative energy, lets put these stressed out threads behind us. Its 2013 now new beginnings, lets make them positive, much love

I don't agree. The morphogenetic field (ie, demonic attachment) of the hard/habit-forming substances that cause so much unnecessary suffering and which are not healthy for the body/mind/spirit are a plague in the world.

lol

I appreciate the clarification G. Unfortunately as Terence would say this system of words is one of the poorest designed forms of communication, and unfortunately this is even more true with text over the internet, so it can be difficult sometimes in selecting the right words to achieve the right tone. God knows I'm guilty of this myself...God and some pissed off Nexians

I have many times noted that insulflated cocain tends to have an abortive effect on a mushroom trip. You guys never been to that party? You're all tripping, one guy pulls out a white bag...hey guys, let's do a line! 5 minutes later....hey, we're not tripping any more. wtf, these mushrooms don't last that long I guess? let's do another line!

That's ONE of the reasons I would never mix dmt and coke.

@divineinmymind - I agree with you that there is a difference between the Spirits of the full spectrum teacher plants compared to the synthesised entheogens or extractions. Re: trickster - I think Terrence meant it in a positive light, as traditionally the trickster (coyote, etc) teaches through (benevolent) tricks.
@endlessness - I politely disagree with you where you say there's no difference between full spectrum teacher plants compared to synthesised entheogens or extractions.
@ntwhtyouknow - thanks for the mdma info, I wasn't aware.

Focusing your energy, aligning your chakras, meditating; all those aid in the almost complete recollection of the trip. I remember all my DMT trips in complete details, even though certain details elude me until much time has passed, but they do resurface nevertheless.

Disregarding all the talk about how safe or how addictive cocaine is, there's an extremely high chance that what you are calling "coke" is some coke, plus a whole lot of nasty, god-knows-what adulterants. Mixing that with DMT can not only be unpredictably dangerous, but also surely disrespects the entire journey. Why take DMT if you're not interested in its mind-expanding, spiritual, and mystical properties, right ? If you want to get pedantic with respect to the neuroscience behind it, I don't really care about the triple-reuptake that cocaine exhibits, since I'm taking away from how the trip is supposed to be. You're not supposed to be alert or focused in your trip. Your trip is your trip, simple as that.