I totally agree. It´s sad that some people cannot simply respect the opinions of others. It´s also kind of sad when people make statements like 'all X people are stupid/hatefull/etc.' . Can´t people see how disrespectful that is? Shouldn´t people be seen as the indidvidual person they are instead of simply as 'another jew/muslim/hindu/etc.'? Doesn´t each human being deserve to get the benefit of the doubt, regardless of what religion he follows...in other words, shouldn´t we wait with a judgement like for instance 'religious nut', untill we´ve had the opportunity to get to know someone personally?

Blue Lunar Night:

My sincere apologies for becoming so heated with you. I hope you will understand that I have to respectfully bow out of our debate. I do understand that your viewpoint is a valid one. It is mainly because of my own personal experiences that this particular debate typically generates a super heated reaction from me. If I may, plz allow me to explain my position with regaurds to this matter. It has quite a bit to do with my background.

I was dis-owned and banished by my Earth family when I was a teenager for smoking weed. I am now 35. If I had never discovered spirituality via psycheddelics I would be dead or in prison right now instead of typing this from my point of view.

To me it is clear that the only reason I have survived with no money and no education beyond high school up to this point in my life is because of my "spirit family".

I consider myself to have literally been adopted by an angel. I believe this angel has guided me and also provided me with everything I need to survive in my life.

IMO This angel brought me to DMT and because of DMT I was introduced to the rest of my family. I believe that this family is the the YHWH Elohim. They have revealed to me during DMT experiences that I am gentically Identical to them somehow and they have reffered to me as "part of the family". (Course that's just a trip I had I'm not saying I'm the chosen one or anything like that)

The Ayahuasca spirit/ally recently called me "out little orphaned child" during a changa experience and I broke down completely into a blubbering pile of tears.


That is my honest story and I felt a need to share it. I feel like YHWH is my actual family so that is why I get so heated because to me it's like your telling me my family is lucifer...the ones who have cared for me, nutured me and raised me to be who I am today.

So once again my apologies for getting so offended it was sort of a reflexive action on my part because I percievd it as an insult to my family when obviously you didn't really realize I thought of it in such a way.

In my head your words translated straight into #$%#! your mom! and your father is a #@$#@...

Sorry I saw it like that. I know I had no good reason to take it so personally.

_e


Also Spock's Brain- Sorry I was sharp with you too...I was just having an off day.
I'm working on a more logical response for you right now.

No problem Eliyahu. I didn't take it personally at all.
And I hope that you didn't take my words personally either.
I can have a confrontational personality, and tend to 'go for the jugular.'

It is also a very heated topic for me, as I do believe that 'JuChrIslam' is irredeemably patriarchal and pathologically insane... one of the most destructive forces on the planet.

However I don't hold anything against individuals who belong to these religions, and I do try to see the human behind the rhetoric.
Ultimately it is one's actions in the world that count, not one's choice of deity or inspirational reading material.

My post wasn't a kneejerk reaction, as I have been patiently disregarding a lot of similar material appearing on the Nexus lately.
But I felt that no one was stepping up to offer a sufficiently forceful challenge to some of the claims being made,
(probably because they wisely wished to avoid opening this particular can of worms)
so I figured I'd do it myself.

I'm not making any allegations about your spirit family. I'm sure they're lovely.
From the sound of it, your YHWH and my YHWH are two totally different entities.

But from the look of it, my YHWH is the one which has taken center stage in the JuChrIslamic faiths, and consequently in the historical narrative.


Anyways Eliyahu, my apologies if I was counter-productively harsh.
You have my respect & I wish you the best.
I was truly impressed by some of your trip reports.

Thanks

Interesting,

Nexus member lyserge pointed out a theory once that I now subscribe to. A theory that the popular "mainstream" version of religion..(example: the blue eyed republican jesus) is the result of a paticular force that is the embodiment of pure chaos and whos purpose is to perpetuate chaos and universal discord in the world and is supposedly connected to the Greek God Eris. I would also attribute it to the entity known as Samael, (or lit. poison God.)

IMO...I have encountered what is in my mind parasitic alien entities who are desperately trying to overthrow the forces of natural law and disrupt the balance of creation if you will. sort of like the classic satan of the bible who it says god loved so much that he reavealed all the secrets of creation to him. After that he(the satan) became incredibly arrogant and prideful then deciding to overthrow his master.....sort of dark jedi style.

Anyway I thought I would throw that out there.

Peace and thanks.

==============================================================





Hey Spock's Brain, sorry if I came off kind of sharp at you as well, I was having an off day..

So, allow me to try and explain in a logical fashion what I mean when I say the English translation is innacurate. There are several arguments to support this idea.

Consider first of all the people who wrote the Torah...the ancient Hebrews.
The Hebrew people were a tribal society in ancient times and like any tribal society they were masters of the art of story telling. IMO if a person really wants to understand the Torah then it is very helpful to understand the minds of the ancient hebrew people form a historical perspective. I consider ancient Hebrew to a bio-agricultural language based on farming metaphors where as greek is an abstract language based on abstract ideas. For example if you ask 100 modern people what heaven is you will probably get many different responses, if you ask an ancient Hebrew what heaven is you will get a more concrete answer....Heaven is Shamyim in hebrew it means sky-water or water of the sky. So although metaphorically descriptive the phrase sky-water is more concrete than the word heaven IMO.

In Judiasm there is the written law(torah) and the oral law. The oral law is transmitted from father to son or from Rabbi(teacher) to student. This is where the the commentaries on the bible such as the midrash and the talmud.
The Torah is considered to have different levels of meaning...a plain meaning and an esoteric meaning that must be searched out. The plain meaning is considered the garmet or outer shell of the Torah and it coneals the inner most secrets....
it is said that when one truly loves the torah then they can seek out her mysteries and gaze upon her nakedness,


So considering that the tribal language of the ancient Hebrews is largely based upon agricultural and biological metaphors..... for example in hebrew they don't have a word that exactly translates into "angry" .......
the ancient hebrew way to say someone is angry would be to say "your nostrils are flared" A biological metaphor. This is already a pretty large conceptual difference from what our greek way of thinking is accustomed to.

Also if you take a look at Judiasm there is the written teaching(torah) and the Oral tradition/teaching which was passed from rabbi(teacher) to student and from Father to son etc. The oral tradition is where they get books like the midrash and the Talmud, it's the oral tradition written down so to speak....

So as with most theology there is always that factor that is debatable. What is debatable in this case is whether or not the esoteric science of Kabbalah was included in the oral tradition since before the time the bible was written or is Kabbalah a relatively modern phenomena that emerged in the early middle ages of spain?

I for one am inclined to believe that the bible was specifically written according to the guidlines of "Kabbalistic science" but that is really my opinion and nothing more. I would urge anyone to explore this avenue of esoteric knowledge and make up their own minds whether or not Kabbalah is relevant to the Torah.

here are some other ancient hebrew definitions of common bible words.

(this is off a biblical hebrew website, however I find it to be entirely accurate, your welcome and encouraged to cross reference this.)
Faith =Emanuh:
The Hebrew root aman means firm, something that is supported or secure. This word is used in Isaiah 22:23 for a nail that is fastened to a "secure" place. Derived from this root is the word emun meaning a craftsman. A craftsman is one who is firm and secure in his talent. Also derived from aman is the word emunah meaning firmness, something or someone that is firm in their actions.


Eternity= Olam
In the ancient Hebrew mind the past is in front of you while the future is behind you, the opposite way we think of the past and future. The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever" but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again"


Firmament
The word raqiya is the noun form of the verb raqa and is literally a "hammered out sheet".

Glory:
The original concrete meaning of kavod is battle armaments. This meaning of "armament" fits with the literal meaning of the root of kavod which is "heavy" as armaments are the heavy weapons and defenses of battle.



_Hope this was food for thought, I apologize there is no real mainstream sources I can offer you other than rabbinical interpretation such as the Zohar and The Bahir. I personally think you would find the Zohar and it's rather expansive commentary on the book of Genesis to be fascinating....

-Take care
E

Just got stuck into this. A nice documentary outlining "The Lost Gospels". Just in case any one else is interested.

I've always liked the Gospel of Thomas.

I also meant it way earlier in this thread where I say: "Write your own Bible." I am doing this now. But it is not one filled with dogma that compels belief. Rather, it is a record of my attempt to not only naturally release DMT into my system at the times of MY choosing, with no outside assistance, but also a document of my discoveries as I gain full Memory of Who I Am and what I'm doing here. What am I here for? I am here to Ascend, and write down the process for others to discover. I encourage you all to write down your own person progress in your own Ascension Process--for obviously I am not the only one who knows how to play the Game. Plus, the more written--in paper, with ink--the more chances others have to access what we are ALL unlocking for them, and ourselves.

Okay, end of Gospel of The Maxx.

Purges. I went through a real intense bible study phase about 10 years ago. Here's my suggestion for translation choice with no additional comment on organized religion/christianity/gnosticism etc.

I like the NASB translation best and get a strongs concordance to go along with it.

Each translation comes at the source material with a different idea of how to translate. NASB translates the source more word for word instead of idea to idea. The language doesn't flow as well, but you get a better idea of exactly what is being said and I think a less flowing language helps you slow down in your reading and think about what's being said.

The concordance is a greek/hebrew to english dictionary and for each word in your bible it gives you the greek/hebrew it was translated from. You can kind of tell by how a passage reads that something isn't getting translated just right and then you can look up the original language and get a better idea of what's being said.

Here's a website that does the same thing. Look up a passage and see it next to the hebrew/greek original texts with those words defined. (Hit the "c" button next to the verse you want to look up for the original language and then click on the strongs number for the word you want to look up the definition for) It's handy when you get into these kind of threads.

www.blueletterbible.org

The last thing I'd say, and this is the kind of thing that rials people up...if you read it, read it as if it were all from God and 100% infallible. For one, that's the way it was and is read by the majority of people reading it so it'll help you gain that perspective. And two because although there are some ridiculous things in there, there aren't nearly as many as appear at a first reading.

If you're reading the text critically, when you get to a passage that seems contradictory you're more likely to blow it off as being contradictory. If you come at it as believing it MUST all be true you'll put hours into thinking on those passages which is where the majority of the value is, in my opinion.

Anyway. Good luck if you decide to do it. It does get less boring as you go. Leviticus is a natural barrier that only lets people really serious about getting through it get through it.

Thank you both

The Maxx, I agree that it is up to us to write our own version of 'the truth' as we see it. I guess in that sense we lean more towards a Gnostic approach than a dogmatic religious one. I think that such an unfettered approach towards finding ones spiritual inclinations is far more positive than sticking to a rigid dogmatic institutionalised faith. I keep a record of sorts of my thoughts, feelings, trip reports, drawings etc, and it is great to see the evolution and the underlying story that goes with it - so I guess in a sense I am already drafting my own Bible of sorts. It just feels like the time is right to explore other psychonauts journals - in this case a collection of them from over 2000 years ago!

Applebaum, thank you for your contribution, it is much appreciated! Pointers like this are just what I need to further my studies

..2000 years is not a very long time..indigenous peoples around the world with much longer traditions may say that the 'real bible' is nature itself..the forest or mountain the temple and library..unfortunately the ignorant have deleted most of it..

^ this

The 'real' bible is just a giant territory manifesto and a bunch of rules that took place of close governance... it's really pretty dry. If anyone has any questions about any religious texts I've studied a lot of them in depth, especially Abrahamic religions.

And to add personal opinion into this, I find all organized and written religions to be wash. It's interesting how they've influenced people over time and how they came about, but I don't think there's anything of value in them. No offense to any religious nexians.

I suggest studying the Kabbalah the philosophical benefits to perceptional analysis and correlations is deeply profound. Do not get into the new age kabbalah that is the trend. In this area of study personally I dont read anything that isnt 50ish years old. In the 80's there was a lot of hogwash put out there.

Interesting thoughts - thanks for sharing people....

I've had a gander at more than a few religious tomes,

from too many bibles to count, the koran, , bagvad vita, buddhist texts,
taoist, Kahbalah, rosicruianism, the mahabharatha, crowleys stuff,
frazer's golden bough, and so on.....

The more I read, the more I see an underlying sameness in MOST but not ALL,

I've found that when the core principles / deeper meanings in the text,
resonate around love / harmony / compassion - then they are not far from the truth.

Seems to me the differences are the result of the same principles being expressed / expanded over time, through human culture, but in differing local environments - resulting in a fractal wonderland of diversity of beliefs - perhaps similar to the way the mandelbrot set...creates so many patterns from basic 'truth/idea.'

Re studying the "real" bible - my answer would depend upon your definition of
"real" - not as simple as it sounds - see this cool thread ...

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=11579

I suggest there is no "REAL" bible, other than the one that leads you to greater
enlightenment / harmony / spiritual awareness.
It may not a case of one book does not fit all ....

Other thoughts - Doesn't Godels theorem requires/suggest that no bible is able to fully contain or explain "the real truth" ?