DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 533 Joined: 07-May-2009 Last visit: 04-Feb-2024
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Lavos wrote:I was going to basify with lye, would calcium hydroxide/lime be better for any reason? Definitely don't use lime when basing a tea. It will turn into the thickest sludge you've ever seen in your life, kind of ends up resembling fat once your solvent is added. I wont make that mistake again  Everything else sounds just fine, good luck!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 282 Joined: 22-Sep-2010 Last visit: 07-Oct-2017 Location: Acedian sea
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Great, thanks for the tip, hadn't heard that before. I grabbed some lye as I can use that for more spice anyway. Got the hcl acid and need to get some xylene. I'll try to get some pics during the process. My ego is insane, but I'm alright
The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. -William Blake
Lavos is a fictional character, a dream inside a dream. Don't take what he says to be true or representational of reality in any known form. He is inspired by pure fantasy.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 135 Joined: 05-Nov-2010 Last visit: 16-Mar-2013
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heavenlypursuit wrote:landfishd wrote:heavenlypursuit wrote:You will need to take the dried powder and boil it down for a bit longer than the fresh cactus. Just stir and stir, and stir some more for about a 1/2 hour. You'll notice the cactus start to slightly separate from the water. At this point, stop stirring and see if there is any foam that builds up. If there is no more foam, it is then safe to put the top on the pressure cooker and get the pressure up to 15psi. When using powdered cactus, let the cactus stay at 15psi for 15-20 minutes. At that point, the cactus WILL separate from liquid and allow you to continue with your next two pulls. However, this tek is way more work than is necessary for dried powder. All one really needs to do with powder is base strongly with NaOH or KOH, put in solvent, shake up and let sit for about 12-24 hours. Then just pull the top solvent layer, salt, put the solvent layer back into the extraction vessel, then repeat 3-4 more times. SWIM performs this tek by adding about 500ml of a 30% KOH solution to 100 grams of cactus powder. He shakes the crap out of the jar, then adds about a 3-4 inch layer of d-limo. Shakes vigorously a few more times, then lets the jar sit for 24 hours. He then pulls the d-limo off the top, salts and repeats another 4 times. This tek takes a bit longer, but it is probably the easiest mescaline extraction tek there is. Once SWIM gets some more powder in, he can do a writeup for that tek if anybody is interested. Does SWIY let the 500ml of the 30% KOH solution sit with the cactus powder for a while before adding the limo? SWIM just mixed about 2.25L 30% KOH solution with a little less than 450 grams of powder. A couple hours later it is still very snotty, and not runny at all. Also it isn't as dark as when he added equal parts lye water and powder a week ago. He will probably wait a day or so before adding any Limo. Yes, the d-limo is added right away. A couple hours later is not sufficient time for the KOH to break down the cactus. The directions state to let the cactus soak in the KOH for 12-24 hours, and that is a minimum. Also, color is not a great indicator of how well the base is working. SWIM's based cactus will be different colors many times (ranging from dark red to nearly black). Landfishd is correct that it takes KOH longer to break down the cactus, but you won't need to wait a week. SWIM has gotten nice yields after pulling on the cactus after soaking in KOH/limo for a day. Well SWIM finally got his D-Limonene in the mail yesterday after the cactus has been sitting in the KOH for about a week. He started the extraction the day the limo was supposed to come in but UPS damaged it, so he had to wait another week for it to arrive. After adding a nice layer to my jug of based cactus last night, and shaking vigorously, it is separating beautifully! No emulsions at all! SWIM cannot wait to salt tonight. He is going to try to salt with sulfuric acid and precipitate crystals out of the freezing water and acetone solution like in dg's dual solvent re-x tek. SWIM is not sure whether to credit the KOH or the fact that the cactus has been based for a week for the super nice separation he is getting. This will be the 3rd attempt at a cactus extraction for him. The first doing an A/B, and the second STB with equal parts lye and cactus. Both times he had emulsions from hell, and only recovered a tiny fraction of the limo back. Thus only retrieving a very tiny amount of mescaline each time. With this extraction he expects to finally have at least a couple grams, so he is thrilled!!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 533 Joined: 07-May-2009 Last visit: 04-Feb-2024
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KOH rules them all when it comes to cactus slime
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 156 Joined: 17-Nov-2010 Last visit: 22-Sep-2019 Location: inside a tangerine
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Virola78 wrote:oneistheall wrote:always used 69ron´s tek but the press part is kind of a pain and quite messy not to mention all the limonene that gets trapped.... I have seen this comment before by others. And i dont really understand, or maybe i do. The only time when i couldnt get the xylene out easily (using a french press), it was because i had added a bit too much water. (The yield was also kind of dissapointing btw) If the correct amount of water is added, the cactus-calciumhydroxide-water-mix wil be wet, not snotty/smooth paste. It will be sort of crumbly and it will easily be give up the NP when pressed. Do you think the problem could be caused by too much water? --- To the OP: Good to hear about the excesive amount of sodiumhydroxide needed for desnottyfying. I didnt know that. Also your helpfull pictures and explainations are a nice addition to the mescalinecorner. well, its a great tek for sure but its kindda messy and im looking foreward to save limonene, it arrives to me by air mail and is a bit expensive.want to try if i get more mesc from a variation. im just a blue reindeer, dont listen to me, listen to her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ABIkH7m0s
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 156 Joined: 17-Nov-2010 Last visit: 22-Sep-2019 Location: inside a tangerine
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ok guys. im boiling 300grs of dryed chips right now.no pc available now... ill proceed like this, tell me what you think. first froze chips with water overnight. will perform 3x2hrs boils with 5ml of acetic acid strain each boil put them togeather and reduce to lets say to 500ml. prepare a solution of 500mls water with lets say 250grs KOH.100mls water can dissolve up to 120grs KOH mix and shake with reduced tea.let rest for 24-48 hrs. add 300-500 mls limonene shake,rest,shake... for a day.separate limo. salt with 50-100 mls of home made acetic acid solution, let evaporate,scrape. wash 1time with cold MEK, dry & enjoy. using the traditional limo tek got a 1.2 yield with this cactus, unwashed. so lets see what happens now... im just a blue reindeer, dont listen to me, listen to her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ABIkH7m0s
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 156 Joined: 17-Nov-2010 Last visit: 22-Sep-2019 Location: inside a tangerine
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3 days so far, waiting the emulsion to reduce... oneistheall attached the following image(s):  IMG_8021.JPG (156kb) downloaded 600 time(s).im just a blue reindeer, dont listen to me, listen to her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ABIkH7m0s
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 06-Feb-2025 Location: Jungle
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Maybe add more base, and/or dont shake but rather stir, and/or add pure salt (NaCl) to break up emulsions.
Good luck!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 156 Joined: 17-Nov-2010 Last visit: 22-Sep-2019 Location: inside a tangerine
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thx for the advice, its reducing, if you look closer you can see a trace of the emulsion where it was a couple of days ago.i will wait an other 48 hrs and salt whatever im able to retrive, then i will base more.im concerned about using so much base.will some KOH end in my final product (dont wanna take some toxic mesca) ? is KOH soluble in limonene and in MEK? hope that MEK washes out any excess. any advice on the toxicity issue? thank you. im just a blue reindeer, dont listen to me, listen to her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ABIkH7m0s
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huachumancer
Posts: 1285 Joined: 02-Aug-2008 Last visit: 21-Sep-2024 Location: earf
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even if you were using lye you could let it sit around for a week safely, so koh should be fine
try agitating the vessel by setting on a washer/dryer/ or by anything else that gyrates
i prefer to swirl from the get go when i was into the chems instead of the skins
best of luck!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 157 Joined: 12-Sep-2010 Last visit: 03-Aug-2012 Location: Twilight Zone
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Lavos wrote:This thread is very useful, thank you for putting your time into it.
If one had 2 ft of cactus, reduced in a tea, to a volume of 100ml, what would be the desired procedure for basifying? The fresh weight was about 1800-2000g. I was going to basify with lye, would calcium hydroxide/lime be better for any reason? I don't have the equipment to measure ph, so I figured lye would be easiest to work with. Maybe 100g lye to 300ml water, total 400ml solution (more water?. Add 100ml xylene per pull. And salt using the guidelines in this thread, 8-10 drops 30% in 120ml distilled water. Pull and evap the water, re use solvent.
Sound like I'm on the right track? Is 2ft bridgesii worth pulling or should I pick up a little pedro to go with it?
(I know I got a thread already, but there's a lot of knowledge being exchanged here and thought I'd add my .02)
Should I 'clean' my bridgesii alks or keep it 'dirty'?
Lavos, You're right on track. Just to be safe, make 125-150 grams of lye to the 300 ml of water. SWIM always gets better yields with more base. Also, with the salting... SWIM has upped it to 17 drops and noticed much better salting yields. He pulls a bit more dirty sanchez, but his overall saltings have higher yields. As for cleaning... Bridgesii have some really nice other alk's. If you've never done full range bridgesii, do that. Just do one acetone wash to get any residual oils or fats from the salting, then re-x. SWIM's mescaline collection consists of the extracted alk's from pedro, bridgesii and peruvian torch. He then has two vials of each. One vial of the full range version of each respective cactus, and one of the pure isolated mescaline from each respective cactus. In his opinion, the full range version of each respective cactus is what really gives each species their own character during the trip. To SWIM, isolated mescaline is isolated mescaline, it doesn't matter if it's from a torch, pedro, or achuma.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 157 Joined: 12-Sep-2010 Last visit: 03-Aug-2012 Location: Twilight Zone
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landfishd wrote:heavenlypursuit wrote:landfishd wrote:heavenlypursuit wrote:You will need to take the dried powder and boil it down for a bit longer than the fresh cactus. Just stir and stir, and stir some more for about a 1/2 hour. You'll notice the cactus start to slightly separate from the water. At this point, stop stirring and see if there is any foam that builds up. If there is no more foam, it is then safe to put the top on the pressure cooker and get the pressure up to 15psi. When using powdered cactus, let the cactus stay at 15psi for 15-20 minutes. At that point, the cactus WILL separate from liquid and allow you to continue with your next two pulls. However, this tek is way more work than is necessary for dried powder. All one really needs to do with powder is base strongly with NaOH or KOH, put in solvent, shake up and let sit for about 12-24 hours. Then just pull the top solvent layer, salt, put the solvent layer back into the extraction vessel, then repeat 3-4 more times. SWIM performs this tek by adding about 500ml of a 30% KOH solution to 100 grams of cactus powder. He shakes the crap out of the jar, then adds about a 3-4 inch layer of d-limo. Shakes vigorously a few more times, then lets the jar sit for 24 hours. He then pulls the d-limo off the top, salts and repeats another 4 times. This tek takes a bit longer, but it is probably the easiest mescaline extraction tek there is. Once SWIM gets some more powder in, he can do a writeup for that tek if anybody is interested. Does SWIY let the 500ml of the 30% KOH solution sit with the cactus powder for a while before adding the limo? SWIM just mixed about 2.25L 30% KOH solution with a little less than 450 grams of powder. A couple hours later it is still very snotty, and not runny at all. Also it isn't as dark as when he added equal parts lye water and powder a week ago. He will probably wait a day or so before adding any Limo. Yes, the d-limo is added right away. A couple hours later is not sufficient time for the KOH to break down the cactus. The directions state to let the cactus soak in the KOH for 12-24 hours, and that is a minimum. Also, color is not a great indicator of how well the base is working. SWIM's based cactus will be different colors many times (ranging from dark red to nearly black). Landfishd is correct that it takes KOH longer to break down the cactus, but you won't need to wait a week. SWIM has gotten nice yields after pulling on the cactus after soaking in KOH/limo for a day. Well SWIM finally got his D-Limonene in the mail yesterday after the cactus has been sitting in the KOH for about a week. He started the extraction the day the limo was supposed to come in but UPS damaged it, so he had to wait another week for it to arrive. After adding a nice layer to my jug of based cactus last night, and shaking vigorously, it is separating beautifully! No emulsions at all! SWIM cannot wait to salt tonight. He is going to try to salt with sulfuric acid and precipitate crystals out of the freezing water and acetone solution like in dg's dual solvent re-x tek. SWIM is not sure whether to credit the KOH or the fact that the cactus has been based for a week for the super nice separation he is getting. This will be the 3rd attempt at a cactus extraction for him. The first doing an A/B, and the second STB with equal parts lye and cactus. Both times he had emulsions from hell, and only recovered a tiny fraction of the limo back. Thus only retrieving a very tiny amount of mescaline each time. With this extraction he expects to finally have at least a couple grams, so he is thrilled!! AWESOME! Glad to hear your waiting was not in vain. Have you done the salting and crystal precipitation yet? Credit the KOH man. Sitting for a week definitely helped, but KOH rules all, just as antichode stated. Honestly, SWIM rarely uses NaOH for anything anymore these days. He has even started substituting KOH in his fresh cactus extraction as well, and it works great. KOH is far superior in spice extractions too. Furthermore, SWIM gets his KOH bottles already pre-diluted at 30% and ready to go. No mixing lye, no vapors, no exothermic reactions, no feeling paranoid about buying NaOH, just pure basing power.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 157 Joined: 12-Sep-2010 Last visit: 03-Aug-2012 Location: Twilight Zone
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oneistheall wrote:Virola78 wrote:oneistheall wrote:always used 69ron´s tek but the press part is kind of a pain and quite messy not to mention all the limonene that gets trapped.... I have seen this comment before by others. And i dont really understand, or maybe i do. The only time when i couldnt get the xylene out easily (using a french press), it was because i had added a bit too much water. (The yield was also kind of dissapointing btw) If the correct amount of water is added, the cactus-calciumhydroxide-water-mix wil be wet, not snotty/smooth paste. It will be sort of crumbly and it will easily be give up the NP when pressed. Do you think the problem could be caused by too much water? --- To the OP: Good to hear about the excesive amount of sodiumhydroxide needed for desnottyfying. I didnt know that. Also your helpfull pictures and explainations are a nice addition to the mescalinecorner. well, its a great tek for sure but its kindda messy and im looking foreward to save limonene, it arrives to me by air mail and is a bit expensive.want to try if i get more mesc from a variation. This tek is very efficient with limonene if you don't mind not doing all your pulls at once. You base, add your limonene, shake, let sit, pull, then salt. Then add that same limonene back to the cactus jar and repeat. This takes more time, but saves limonene. Once the extraction vessel is exhausted, and you've done your last salting on the limo, you can then simply wash the limo with distilled water a couple times, then add to a brand new extraction. SWIM can make a quart of limonene last for multiple extractions this way.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 157 Joined: 12-Sep-2010 Last visit: 03-Aug-2012 Location: Twilight Zone
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oneistheall wrote:thx for the advice, its reducing, if you look closer you can see a trace of the emulsion where it was a couple of days ago.i will wait an other 48 hrs and salt whatever im able to retrive, then i will base more.im concerned about using so much base.will some KOH end in my final product (dont wanna take some toxic mesca) ? is KOH soluble in limonene and in MEK? hope that MEK washes out any excess. any advice on the toxicity issue? thank you. Well, the KOH is soluble in water. So if your using a NP such as limonene, I don't see how it would be able to pick any of the KOH up from the water solution. Also, SWIM has taken mesc made with this method, and did not get sick. He also took a very large dose.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 54 Joined: 07-Jan-2011 Last visit: 21-Jul-2021 Location: Somewhere
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heavenlypursuit wrote:
The top layer ended up being about 120 ml, so it was decided to salt with around 100 ml of a hydrochloride solution. This is made by adding 8-10 drops of Hydrochloric acid (35% dilution) to 120 ml of distilled water.
Can sulphuric acid be used instead of hydrochloric acid? Will it make much difference?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 135 Joined: 05-Nov-2010 Last visit: 16-Mar-2013
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Buttsack wrote:heavenlypursuit wrote:
The top layer ended up being about 120 ml, so it was decided to salt with around 100 ml of a hydrochloride solution. This is made by adding 8-10 drops of Hydrochloric acid (35% dilution) to 120 ml of distilled water.
Can sulphuric acid be used instead of hydrochloric acid? Will it make much difference? Yes Sulphuric acid can be used instead, and It seems to be the easier salt to clean. Heavenly, I am buying a pressure cooker and I will be doing another extraction on 1500 grams dried cactus. I think I am addicted to pulling mescaline. It is too much fun!! Though after this next one I don't think I'll be needing anymore for a while. Not to worry! I am running dangerously low on the spice, soooo... more extraction fun on the horizons.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 54 Joined: 07-Jan-2011 Last visit: 21-Jul-2021 Location: Somewhere
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landfishd wrote:
Yes Sulphuric acid can be used instead, and It seems to be the easier salt to clean.
That's good to hear. I think I've used too much d-limo in my extraction. I used 900ml (300ml per pull) for 3 pulls from 2 foot of san pedro. Would I be able to re-use the d-limo for the next extraction? What does the d-limo contain other than the mescaline after an extraction?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1175 Joined: 10-Jun-2010 Last visit: 27-Dec-2024
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Buttsack wrote:heavenlypursuit wrote:
The top layer ended up being about 120 ml, so it was decided to salt with around 100 ml of a hydrochloride solution. This is made by adding 8-10 drops of Hydrochloric acid (35% dilution) to 120 ml of distilled water.
Can sulphuric acid be used instead of hydrochloric acid? Will it make much difference? Yes. you cant add an excess of it like you can hcl it will not evap away like hcl so, titrate the polar layer during salting to ph 6-7
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 54 Joined: 07-Jan-2011 Last visit: 21-Jul-2021 Location: Somewhere
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dg wrote:Buttsack wrote:
Can sulphuric acid be used instead of hydrochloric acid? Will it make much difference?
Yes. you cant add an excess of it like you can hcl it will not evap away like hcl so, titrate the polar layer during salting to ph 6-7 I've never used titrate and I have no idea where to get it. How do I titrate the polar layer and what will it accomplish?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1175 Joined: 10-Jun-2010 Last visit: 27-Dec-2024
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titrationhere is some reading.. basically, you only add enough acid to drag over the the alkaloids. here is my method https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=14000
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