ya well there are studies that prove it bud. It changes the endogenous levels of cannabinoids like anandamide in heavy smokers. Some people binge drink every day for a week or so then stop for weeks, some people break a leg and sit in a hospital on morphene for a week and then stop like that, doesnt mean they aren't addictive.

Ive smoked pipe tobacco every day for a week then not touched it for many months, doesnt mean nicotine is not addictive.

How many people out there need to come out and talk abotu how they were addicted to cannabis AND had withdrawl from it before people will stop making excuses?

Most people could use heroin on a daily basis for a couple of weeks without getting addicted to the stuff, yet almost everybody agrees that it's addictiveness is a well established fact.

Voted yes, I'm not going to stop you.

I never tried it but I dont like caffeine or amphetamine so I don't see why cocaine
should be any better.
Biggest problem with these drugs for me is how they affect my thinking, to much
caffeine and I become an egocentric asshole.
All about me, dont like that.

I really hate being around people who drink and snort coke, it's unbearable.
It really makes people twice the asshole...in general.

And cannabis is addictive for sure, know someone who is really addicted to it.
Personally in my past it has only been habituating, used to do it 24/7 but now
I can have it lying around without touching it for a long time.

I agree fractal. But for me - I smoked weed most days for years. If it was available it is very hard to say no to smoking more. If it is not available I noticed no ill effects - I just felt better about myself. I put myself into a lifestyle where it wasn't around and I didnt miss it.

Best quote I ever heard about weed was from a film - "It robs you of your ambition"

As for Charlie - I partake when it is around and have always enjoyed it. There have been some valid points raised about the destruction it causes, which I will honestly consider before using it again.

For me it has always been a social and enjoyable thing. I dont know anyone who has messed up on it, I dont know anyone who was addicted. I dont know anyone who acts like a arrogant prick when on it. I dont know anyone who stole to fund buying it. etc. etc.

I think this reflects more my good upbringing and strong circle of friends than it does the effects of the drug, as I don't doubt any of the horror stories here. It's just all been positive for me.

The biggest problem from my spoilt, middle england, middle class perspective is that the quality goes down and down. I suspect it can't be more than 20% pure in the UK on average anymore, and at £40-£50 for a gram, that is a big waste of money.

I have never been addicted to cocaine.. But I was at one point a very heavy MJ user, and it took a long time to finally get over that.

MJ IS addictive! For some reason the media tries to make it seem like it is the safest, most benign substance, but for me it completely took control of my life. It was easier to stop smoking cigarettes than it was for me to stop smoking pot.

Does this mean that I think pot should be illegal? Of course not! There are people out there that probably do benefit in some form from occasional cannabis use. This applies to every drug out there IMO.

If cocaine wasn't soaked in blood and the product was clean, I could see myself occasionally using it once or twice a year. Does this make me a bad person?.. I don't personally think so. Every person has their own preferences when it comes to drug effects, and the more they enjoy the effect, the more likely they will want to come back to re-experience.

Changa is addictive to some. Does this make it a bad substance?

The realy bad thing about cocaine isn't that it's addictive. There are many substances that are more addictive and less harmfull at the same time.
The realy bad thing about cocaine is that it slowly changes your personanlity, making you less social and more agressive.

I'm basically a liberal when it comes to all kinds of drugs. Even drugs that are pretty harmfull. If people want to fuck up their lives i find they have the right to do this as long as they don't mess up other peoples lives, because it's only their own lives going down the drain.
Whether cocaine should be legalized or not, cocaine IS different in this regard. If a substance causes agression in people, and this is the case with cocaine (as with alcohol and other substances), my view quickly becomes less liberal.

A good comparison is this: i'm for the right for people to commit suicide, even if it's not entirely voluntarily like when people would play russian roulette for instance. I'm totally OK with it if people would engage in such activities.
Drinking and driving on the other hand, is not just playing russian roulette with your own life, but with that of others as well. Therefore i find drinking&driving a serious crime and i would encourage it if people would be sent to prison for it.

I find the use of cocaine a sort of russian roulette with other peoples lives because of how it get's all the way from bolivia up to your nose and because of the agression it causes in people.

I cannot speak for how it is in other countries, but where i live, whenever football hooligans seriously injure or nearly kill innocent bystanders or police officers, it's been preluded by a combination of alcohol and cocaine or amphetamine. Whenever you see people taking amphetamine or cocaine in combination with alcohol, especially when it's larger groups of people doing this, there is an almost 100% certainty that there's gonna be very brutal and bloody violence.
You can just see how the thirst for blood awakens in people, when they take this combo.

the cocaine 'scene' largely a result of its illegal status can get very nasty at all levels from production trafficking to using.

but a drug is a drug. cocaine certainly has an addictive edge but who cares? if your responsible it fine to use.

the many nasty side effects make it unattractive however. a few good blasts of high quality material is an amazing feeling however. your brain doesn't forget that easily.

i don't think cocaine causes negative personality changes in all people who use it occasionally. i think thats a massive over generalization. ive seen lots of people, some very close friends/relatives go into the depths of hell from cocaine and others just do it occasionally have fun and thats that no problems. its partly the person and partly the drug. some people and cocaine just don't mix or shouldn't mix. some people its not different then getting drunk every now and then (except the effects obviously).



yes but these people are also total morons.

My thinking exactly. I couldn't agree more.

SWIM has tried nearly every popular psychoactive drug there is. Only to get addicted to two of them: tobacco and marijuana. SWIM has tried amphetamines, opium, cocaine, alcohol, etc. For SWIM marijuana was a nightmare addiction. SWIM can’t get addicted to cocaine because he doesn’t find it pleasurable. You need to like the drug to make the choice of becoming an addict to it. You’re not going to be an addict to a drug you don’t get pleasure from.

SWIM got immense pleasure from marijuana. It got rid of his stress. SWIM has a problem with stress. He’s always critical of himself, trying to push himself harder, etc., and has a hard time being content with things. For SWIM marijuana made him feel truly content. He could sit there all day smoking and smoking and feel 100% content, until the effects wore off and then he was way more stressful than we normally was. Smoking more marijuana was the only way to feel content again. It was and endless cycle. The more he smoked, the more he needed to smoke to feel contentment. Cocaine doesn’t make you feel the way marijuana does, in fact, on cocaine, SWIM could get even more stressed out. It just does nothing for him. Same with amphetamines.

For SWIM the pull of marijuana was huge. Far more intense than tobacco. Everyone is different. Some people love cocaine, and do it all the time. SWIM was addicted to tobacco for the same reason as marijuana: it help alleviate his stress.

Oh…and SWIM got withdrawal effects from marijuana when he finally stopped after several years of using it all day everyday and the withdrawal lasted 3 WHOLE FUCKING MONTHS! This consisted of lots of stress, and the feeling of complete boredom and the craving to smoke more pot. Terrible, just terrible!

I smoked weed nonstop for years and then stopped with no withdrawal to speak of.

Cocaine should be legalized because then then the price would drop and it wouldn't be high society shit anymore. I used to know someone who would sell it and he said that its basically selling bragging rights, half of what people sniff is so cut that it wouldn't even do much. I wouldn't do it but to be fair its a less neurotoxic thing to get into than some of the stuff you guys like on here...

What substances we like to use do you view as more neurotoxic than cocaine?

There is a reputation amongst aspects of organised violence in football clubs in the UK that I hear use coke and alcohol, so I see your point here, and I (probably) have no experience of where you live. I'm not sure if these people are hankering after a fight and this combo acts as a catalyst for it though. I think this is the exception rather than the rule. Getting pissed and having a line of charlie does not turn the majority of people into maniacs.

I was at a party at the weekend with about 100 people there (not a football ground I know, but still). The vast majority had coke, and everyone without exception had vast amounts of alcohol. This resulted in a lot of laughter, fun, flirting and staying up till dawn. No violence or aggression, just people making friends and having a good time. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have this experience, that is why it's so popular.

Mind you, it was pretty average coke, maybe if it was pure we would have started taking lumps out of each other

Cocaine combined with ethanol produce cocaethylene, a more potent and also more toxic substance than cocaine. I have also noticed the tendency of people to get thirsty for blood if large doses of ethanol and stimulants are combined, and this is especially prominent with cocaine. People get so damn high on their own ego with this combo...

I didn't know about that cocaethylene, EveGlow what would you think the mixture of cocaine and ketamine would produce ? This mix is nothing like ego massage and violence, it's more a very circus-like psychelic.
It has a dramaturgy on its own it's amazing. A demon by itself.

MDMA and Nightshade family members containing atropine or hyoscyamine. I noticed before some people advocating mephedrone or methylone on this forum which are releasing agents. Outside of that people on here have pretty good taste

Atropine and the related substances are not neurotoxic in small doses, are they? Keep in mind that they are used extensively in medicine, including many times each day at every hospital and as OTC medications.

MDMA, methylone and mephedrone on the other hand, I can agree that it seems like they are more toxic than cocaine. Cocaine is in fact not really toxic if used now and then, but chronic use leads to a number of very bad side effects.

Quidding fresh leaves is very pleasurable. Especially when hiking around in South America. Quite common to find trekkers with a pouch of leaves.

Blow sucks until you try good blow, then you get it. Not a good habit, but an interesting plant. Not against dabbling but I don't like the energy of the entire production and distribution chain of where it came from to when it gets to you. Very ugly. Not worth supporting or participating in at all.

ive been a heavy toker for years and never experienced withdrawal from weed, i remember my dreams vividly and im maybe a bit ratty but coffee can make you ratty if you dont have some. I wouldnt call weed addictive in the sense that you need it, its more like you want it.
You're body doesnt crave thc the way it craves coke, weed can be dangerous but theres a reason why charlie is class a and weed isnt. And i know dmt is class A but we all know the pro's and cons of dmt.

SWIM noticed a nasty habit of alcohol and coca leaf imbibing and does not recomend it to any one.

I've clicked NO, but it's a personal view. SWIM finds cocaine just useless, as someone else said, a dirty feeling and nothing more.
I've never seen a guy who's life, personal habit or world exploration became better by using cocaine. Maybe it's my experience.
Same thing for alcool, another drug I REALLY can't understand, can't see any benefit.

MJ does the same to me, and I agree with who say it's addictive. Hard not to admit it, though guys who smokes it all day say it's not, that they can stop when they want. The unsolved problem is the wickening of the will power that the substance has, so that they don't really want to stop.

Nothing goods comes from this ego feeding drugs, and nothing good comes from any addiction (I'm an internet addicted, just. And it's not a little deal, at all).

Still, that doesn't mean I want those drugs to be illegal, for sure. Just, when they offer me a drink or a line, I don't accept them.

I voted yes. Occassional use I don't really see a problem with, aside from all the behind the scenes stuff regarding it's production already mentioned. I have a friend who messed up big time in relation to coke and crack, got himself into £20k of debt with dealers, ended up enacting a fake burgulary of his own house to pay off some of it (car stolen, money from safe stolen, sentimental jewelry taken etc), so I know quite well the consequences of addiction, but at the same time I also have many friends who use it occassionally and have no problems at all getting on with everyday life, going to work, paying bills, enjoying other aspects of life etc so I think it does depend somewhat on a persons personality and psyche from the outset.

Personally, cocaine is most definitely a social drug, at least for me, it serves no business or purpose when done solo, and I think if you are doing that then maybe that's the first sign your in trouble(?). It also kind if acts as a truth serum (or powder more accurately) for me along with enhancing conversations, sometimes just 3 guys will stand and talk till the sun comes up, perhaps resolving past issues and greviences, sometimes just talking about good times and memories. I don't agree with the 'coke makes you violent' regardless of the presence or absence of alcohol, the only people I have witnessed become violent or aggresive under the influence are people who were violent or aggressive to begin with and it just exascerbated these traits.

It's not really worth bothering with these days though, as has been mentioned, in the UK most stuff is cut to hell, i'd be amazed if there was anything above 10% present in most stuff, yet the cost remains the same, which for a lot of people will probably resulting more being purchased in order to achieve the desired state, which is what pushers are hoping for I suppose. Having read the cocaine handbook, and a number of forum threads centered around it, supposedly pure (+80%) cocaine is meant to be a rather different experience from what most people are familar with, It would be worth trying
on time, though as with the previously stated purity of street coke, I'd imagine one would have to purchase a large quantity to get even a small amount of pure stuff for a final yield.

I went through a period of weekend use for a period of about 8 weeks a couple of years back, the only thing drastically effected was my wallet, but I had good times so no regrets. Oh and IIRC the combination of alcohol and cocaine produces a potent hepatotoxic compound whose name escapes me, but it's well documented so might be worth considering.

Methtical