I always thought a thunprint was just stiking your thumb in some liqiud dose and stamping it on blotter and that was your dose.
I don't think that dose qualifies you as an idiot.
And I also don't believe that a strip would even come close to an overdose.
I mean, where are the 800 microgram doses at? Not anywhere.

I have most definately noticed LSA-like effects with blotters a few times.

Hmm, well...in visual and auditory effects there definately IS a threshold.
As for mental effects; They do increase, but i find the mental effects of high doses of LSD just not that pleasant. The largest amount i ever did was 8 blotters and i just wouldn't go further then that ever, because at that dose it's just debilitating, mentally.
I wasn't able to finish a sentence properly, just because i forgot what i was saying, constantly.

My most euphoric trips where on 2 to 3 blotters.

If myself or SWIM decide to take a strip it would definately be quality LSD, and more than likely at a psytrance festival.
From what I gather, just be careful, be safe, be in a good set and setting and have a good time. Other than that, it seems to be a worthwhile experience for a special occasion.

lol, macho macho ron. you sure do talk a lot.

Yes it can. For example, on SWIM's very first acid experience he for the first time viewed other cultures and other races as if they were of his own culture and race. This caused SWIM to lose all of his prejudice concepts of white people being superior to other races. Before that, SWIM had really no idea that he was viewing other cultures and races so badly. He was raised to believe that white people were superior, and just thought this was normal, and through the effects of LSD, he was able to see that other people from other cultures and races are just like him. It was a life changing experience.

That realization affected SWIM permanently. He’s now married to a beautiful Asian woman and has a multicultural household. It was LSD that opened up his mind to other cultures. He was way too close minded to see it without the LSD.

So, that’s the kind of benefit small doses of LSD can have. It can increase your intelligence by getting you out of a mental rut.

The "thumbprint" I'm talking about is the "thumbprint" dose where a person puts their thumb into a pile of pure LSD crystals and licks their thumb. I think we're talking about two different "thumbprint" myths here. Putting your thumb in liquid is not nearly as strong as pure crystals.

If the hits are 3 mg hits, which there are, but they are very rare, then a 10 strip would contain 30 mg. Most acid these days is 50 mcg. or so, so a 10 strip these days is maybe 500 mcg, not a big dose at all. That’s actually the reported saturation dose of LSD beyond which taking more produces very little.

...Macho macho man...I want to be a macho man...

...Macho macho man...I want to be a macho man...

I hate that song.

Well, whether you believe it or not, I don't care, but SWIM is telling the truth about taking LSD over 1000 times. He took it regularly for many years when he lived in San Francisco as did a lot of his friends at the time. SWIM is not exaggerating or trying to seem macho in any way. If it comes off like that, what am I supposed to do, lie and say SWIM only took it 100 times so it would sound less macho?

...Macho macho man...I want to be a macho man...

...Macho macho man...I want to be a macho man...

Oh God, that song is in my head now.

nah, I believe you - you were just getting passionate to the point of being offensive of other views. thought the song might help provide some perspective.

I am strongly passionate about the subject of taking massive doses of any drug, not just LSD. I think its a very bad idea to push yourself to the limits like that with drugs of any kind.

SWIM once took an accidental overdose of psilocybin (about 250 mg). He suffered mild internal bleeding in the form of broken capillaries in the skin caused by malfunctioning platelets. It was STUPID, not macho, STUPID.

There is nothing macho about taking large doses like that, it’s just stupid. What’s the point of subjecting oneself to that? Just to see if you can get a little higher?

Most overdoses are by mistake, not intentional. Why someone would want to intentionally overdose on LSD by eating a whole sheet (100 hits) is beyond me. But by taking 10 hits of the acid around these days, you’ll get about 500 micrograms or so, that’s far from an overdose. Many people took far more than that without any problems. But once you start getting in the milligram range, it’s obvious it’s getting dangerous because you can feel the side effects creeping in. If you’re taking milligram doses and notice side effects from the LSD, don’t go any higher.

When Leary was testing LSD on many subjects, sometimes he’d give them 300 micrograms and tell them they were getting 1000 micrograms. Most of the test subjects could not tell the difference between 1000 micrograms of LSD and 300 micrograms. After his tests on others he concluded that the saturation point of LSD was 300-500 micrograms, others state 400-500 micrograms. If taking 1000 micrograms produce a trip almost identical to 500 micrograms, then why do it? What’s the point? The more you take the more side effects you get.

I think it's a bad idea to use massive doses of any drug, just like drinking and driving is a bad idea. People shouldn't do it.

All chemicals are toxic at some point even water. At a high enough level anything will interfere enough with physiological processes to cause death. I agree that the MACHO thing is stupidity this is how people end up dead.

There is no strong LD 50 LSD data in humans. The LD 50 differs widely throughout the animal kingdom. There do appear to be a few recorded human deaths in the literature from LSD ingestion although it may be difficult to rule out other factors such as polydrug ingestion, and possible predispositions to toxicity [ http://www.erowid.org/ch...cals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml. ] Some sources claim that the human LD 50 is 1mg/Kg. That means a 100kg individual could take 100mg before dying. There are other reports of less although NO ONE actually Knows. People have taken very large doses without dying.

I do not know if the thumb print thing is bullshit or not either way this would likely be around 8-12mg (as ron said) although if one just lightly touched it probably less. I have heard that LSD chemists will do this. I agree it is very stupid and maybe an urban legend. It is talked about in Lysergic Krystal Cole's book so it may have some truth. LSD chemists have taken massive doses by accident and have reported very toxic effects (This is also covered in the book). Effects can last several days. Also many chemists would take LSD days before a synthesis or move to build up a tolerance to avoid overdose.

I would imagine there comes a saturation piont where taking more may "fuck you" up more but will make little difference as you will just be disoriented and likely not remember it.
Ron where did you hear that the saturation point is after 500mcg? I would be interested in reading this as I know Alpert and Leary talk about 1000mcg doses. I would imagine that 1mcg is stronger than 500mcgs. Maybe though after a certain piont it starts to interfer with ones ability to function and thus one gets little if anything more out of the experience.

Here’s one of the old references for that. There are many others if you search the net:

Psychedelics encyclopedia By Peter G. Stafford, Jeremy Bigwood

Also, Realms of the human unconscious By Stanislav Grof page 31:

Thank you I will look into this. Maybe higher doses just increase the duration. I would imagine though there is a point were higher doses just disrupt coginition to the piont where functionality is no longer a possibility.

From Leary himself, in "Turn on, tune in, drop out" by Timothy Leary, page 81



Here's the link to that one: http://books.google.com/...dq=LSD+leary+500&lr=

SWIM has used LSD many times and finds 500, not 300 micrograms to the saturation point. For Leary himself, the saturation point was 300 micrograms. Beyond that saturation, what ever it is for you personally, it's not really any stronger. It does hit you faster and last a little longer, but also produces more side effects. That's what Leary doesn't mention.

30 mg, damn that just seems insane.
Thanks for the source ron. That is very interesting.

30 mg!

Others state the LD50 as 12 mg, so obviously at least one person took 30 mg and was fine according to Leary. Again, no one knows the real LD50 of LSD.

One thing, in the early days, LSD could be purchased legally in pure form. Most of Leary's early work was done using authentic LSD of a known purity purchased from a pharmaceutical company. He was dealing with known doses. Nothing was guess work.

Most of the people on this forum, including SWIM, are only really guessing about their doses. When SWIM says his saturation point is 500 micrograms, it’s a guesstimate based on the said potency of the blotter paper. He could be totally wrong. Maybe his blotter was weaker than it was said to be. That is common. Maybe his actual saturation point is 300 just like Leary’s?

The thing I hate about LSD is all the myth surrounding it these days. Back when it was legal to purchase lots of real information was available. Leary did do a lot of dosage tests with real human subjects, and I believe a lot of his dosage information is accurate. When he says the saturation point is between 300 and 500 micrograms, I believe it. He had pharmaceutical grade LSD, many real human test subjects, and accurate equipment to test with. What do most SWIMs have? Blotter paper of unknown potency and unknown purity.

None of the SWIMs here really know how much LSD is on their blotter paper or in their liquid. The only people that really know are the illicit LSD manufacturers. And I doubt any of them are posting in this forum.

yep, I've debated it for years with naysayers, people who spread much mythical lore about this compound.
the LSD saturation point is governed by metabolism (it's zero-order reaction kinetics), and downregulation.


and the thumbprint is nothing more than ritual. I get very skeptical with exaggerated claims, i.e. tripping for a week and whatnot.

The most SWIM has eaten at once was, 45 hits, and this was not too clever a move because SWIM'S scene was with a house full of guys ( first of all always have a mix gender setting if you are at all going to enjoy yourself mental health word to the wise) and at that there were mostly 'first timers' at the party. SWIM was splitting 95 lemon flavored mescaline laced jellies with one of the lighting coordinators from STS9...all in all except for the fourty ounces of olde English the night was a success.

its just not up to you, or anybody, to decide what people should or should not do. Inform impartially, raise consciousness, voice your opinion as an opinion and not as a fact, and let people decide for themselves. High doses of many substances can be carefully and safely taken with benefits, or in other circumstances can also be dangerous and stupid. Generalizing here doesnt help in anything.

The OP was talking about 10 strip. SWIM has taken that amount and had a great trip. Other people have had bad experiences.. Even the same SWIM in a different occasion might have had a bad experience and other people who had bad experience might have had a good one with other set and setting. For other people taking even half a dose might be dangerous, maybe not physically but mentally. It all depends, nobody knows, cases have to be looked at individually.