DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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If you bear with me, I'm going be to trying the alcohol to resin to cleanup route and posting my own experience with it in mushrooms workthread over the coming weeks, since I have some PF cakes just been dunked and in the fruiting chamber at present. All is not lost joshisom Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 150 Joined: 04-Mar-2013 Last visit: 21-Apr-2016 Location: 90001
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please let me know your progress
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 648 Joined: 06-Apr-2012 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: Old continent
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me too
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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joshisom wrote:changed title to 25-50% sorry for being defensive i just though that the white transparent crystals that precipitate were fairly pure Just a note, that may also help other that haven't tried the procedures you link in your OP yet, if you filter out these crystals and let them dry, you'll end up again with a sticky mess and, of course nowhere pure psilocybin or psilocin. I totally understand that seeing white crystals precipitatinge out seems magnificent and you immediately start thinking hell yeah...it is however deceptive. As benzyme noted above, there are tons of other things (normally present in mushrooms and extractable with alcohol) other than actives that can precipitate out of the alcoholic tincture. And just as "crystallic precipitate" does not mean "isolated compound", "white" does not necessarily mean "pure". Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 66 Joined: 03-Sep-2011 Last visit: 03-Jan-2020 Location: Somewhere
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benzyme wrote:joshisom wrote:so i guess tour saying shulgin does not know what he is talking about? I'm saying shulgin is human, and even doctors make mistakes. he stated it was a guess, not a fact. I know you think you've found the holy grail of musrhoom extraction teks, I once thought it was too. ..but then I started looking at the pKa's of psilocybin, and realized isolating the compound is considerably more complicated than I previously thought. yes, I've tried the a/b extraction, but on the basic side (pH 8-9), there is a negative charge on the 4-position oxygen. by definition, this is not a free base. this is also why ether is used to extract it, nonpolars like xylene and toluene do not permit migration of charged particles (they are not miscible with water). Maybe he was using methanol not ethanol...
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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Looks like I forgot back then to follow up on a cleanup method involving rinsing with many solvents to pull away non- active material from goo. If I recall it involved chloroform, acetone and some other solvents. The result is supposed to be a grayish powder, but I don't even know if it's active. Even if it works, the result will still be impure, and is still a lot of expense and effort, not to mention a big waste of solvents. I just must have just thought 'nah...screw that'. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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โค๏ธโ🔥
Posts: 3648 Joined: 11-Mar-2017 Last visit: 02-Dec-2024 Location: 🌎
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I've been wanting to try the following for some time. Outline: 1) Cold 70% Ethanol soak of dried ground flesh of the gods. Use sulfites to avoid oxidation instead of vitamin c (available at brew shops for wine makers) 2) Centrifuge at 4000 RPM (or filter?) Set supernatant aside for step 4. 3) Repeat 1) and 2) a few times on what is caught by the centrifuge (or filter). Test residue and verify no activity after a few ethanol pulls (<-- this part may be fun) 4) Combine all ethanol pulls. A reducing/re-filtering step may make sense here. If this is evaporated a goo will probably result (?). Instead, of fully evaporating add | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | and then evaporate. 5) Result after drying may be crystalline | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | complexed with psilocybin (and other small molecules). This is why we use sulfites in step 1) to avoid possible (but not sure) complexation with vitamin C which would waste | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) |. 6) Clean up with dehydrated acetone (| High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | is not soluble in acetone, I don't know if complexed | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | would be, assuming no for now) A variant could be to use acetone before complexation which may give a cleaner product after the final acetone wash (would only work of psilocybin is soluble in acetone). We'd be taking advantage of the transition to (supposedly) non-solubility in acetone after complexation. Any thoughts? Thinking of starting this work next week. If this has been tried and results exist, or there is a reason someone can identify for this not working, let me know. My apologies if I missed such thread(s) despite my search efforts. There are a lot of unkowns. None of the info above is factual, just musings which may all prove to be wrong upon experimentation.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 51 Joined: 09-Dec-2010 Last visit: 22-Oct-2021 Location: The Netherlands
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Loveall wrote:I've been wanting to try the following for some time. Outline:
1) Cold 70% Ethanol soak of dried ground flesh of the gods. Use sulfites to avoid oxidation instead of vitamin c (available at brew shops for wine makers) 2) Centrifuge at 4000 RPM (or filter?) Set supernatant aside for step 4. 3) Repeat 1) and 2) a few times on what is caught by the centrifuge (or filter). Test residue and verify no activity after a few ethanol pulls (<-- this part may be fun) 4) Combine all ethanol pulls. A reducing/re-filtering step may make sense here. If this is evaporated a goo will probably result (?). Instead, of fully evaporating add | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | and then evaporate. 5) Result after drying may be crystalline | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | complexed with psilocybin (and other small molecules). This is why we use sulfites in step 1) to avoid possible (but not sure) complexation with vitamin C which would waste | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) |. 6) Clean up with dehydrated acetone (| High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | is not soluble in acetone, I don't know if complexed | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | would be, assuming no for now)
A variant could be to use acetone before complexation which may give a cleaner product after the final acetone wash (would only work of psilocybin is soluble in acetone). We'd be taking advantage of the transition to (supposedly) non-solubility in acetone after complexation.
Any thoughts? Thinking of starting this work next week. If this has been tried and results exist, or there is a reason someone can identify for this not working, let me know. My apologies if I missed such thread(s) despite my search efforts.
There are a lot of unkowns. None of the info above is factual, just musings which may all prove to be wrong upon experimentation. Here's hoping you have made progress with this, Loveall! I come back to this thread so often whenever someone quotes the 'xtals of the gods tek' and it's wonderful to see that people are still trying to do good science based experiments on psilo extraction.
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โค๏ธโ🔥
Posts: 3648 Joined: 11-Mar-2017 Last visit: 02-Dec-2024 Location: 🌎
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Thanks. It didn't quite work. But we keep on learning and trying.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 146 Joined: 08-Apr-2017 Last visit: 20-Jun-2024
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I struggle to find any reliable extractions of psilocybin or psilocin. wake 'n breakthrough bebiii
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 51 Joined: 09-Dec-2010 Last visit: 22-Oct-2021 Location: The Netherlands
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neb wrote:I struggle to find any reliable extractions of psilocybin or psilocin. here's a reliable extraction method: cut up your psilocybin mushrooms, pour boiling water on them, let sit for a few minutes and you're done: your psilocybin/psilocin mix is now in the water (which you can consume if you're into such things and if it's legal where you are ).
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I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..
Posts: 681 Joined: 08-Jul-2017 Last visit: 08-Jul-2020 Location: Barcelona
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hexagonal wrote:neb wrote:I struggle to find any reliable extractions of psilocybin or psilocin. here's a reliable extraction method: cut up your psilocybin mushrooms, pour boiling water on them, let sit for a few minutes and you're done: your psilocybin/psilocin mix is now in the water (which you can consume if you're into such things and if it's legal where you are ). Go out in nature and do a "pull" with your fingers.. Then basify by chewing hard.. Then you need to "salt it down" by swallowing the base. You could also skip the "pull" by simply stand on all four and eat them like a tiger! "Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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Eaglepath wrote:hexagonal wrote:neb wrote:I struggle to find any reliable extractions of psilocybin or psilocin. here's a reliable extraction method: cut up your psilocybin mushrooms, pour boiling water on them, let sit for a few minutes and you're done: your psilocybin/psilocin mix is now in the water (which you can consume if you're into such things and if it's legal where you are ). Go out in nature and do a "pull" with your fingers.. Then basify by chewing hard.. Then you need to "salt it down" by swallowing the base. You could also skip the "pull" by simply stand on all four and eat them like a tiger! that's not the point. the point is the process, to satisfy scientific curiosity. psilocin extraction is one of the more challenging ones, due to its instability. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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benzyme wrote:the sugars aren't so much the problem, although they may participate in H-bonding interactions, the problem is the proteins (enzymes) which bind electrostatically and through nonspecific interactions (van der waals). this is why simple filtration will not separate them, and why extracts appear greenish.
for all practical purposes, the alcoholic extract is fine for a crude extract, it's effective. evaporate the alcohol to obtain the actives.
I stand corrected on this. trehalose is one of the compounds found naturally-occuring in some fungi, and may end up in aqueous/alcoholic extractions. phosphatase enzymes are also present, and responsible for the conversion at pH <4, under mild heat (40C). they give the extract its greenish color. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 51 Joined: 09-Dec-2010 Last visit: 22-Oct-2021 Location: The Netherlands
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benzyme wrote:Eaglepath wrote:hexagonal wrote:neb wrote:I struggle to find any reliable extractions of psilocybin or psilocin. here's a reliable extraction method: cut up your psilocybin mushrooms, pour boiling water on them, let sit for a few minutes and you're done: your psilocybin/psilocin mix is now in the water (which you can consume if you're into such things and if it's legal where you are ). Go out in nature and do a "pull" with your fingers.. Then basify by chewing hard.. Then you need to "salt it down" by swallowing the base. You could also skip the "pull" by simply stand on all four and eat them like a tiger! that's not the point. the point is the process, to satisfy scientific curiosity. psilocin extraction is one of the more challenging ones, due to its instability. I'm aware of the point and I encourage all efforts. Sadly, basically all efforts thus far have proven unreliable. Seeing as this has been going on for years, I'm not very optimistic. At this point it just makes more sense to obtain 4-ho-met or 4-aco-dmt if you want a relatively stable crystalline powder that's a prodrug for psilocin, although that's another discussion.
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I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..
Posts: 681 Joined: 08-Jul-2017 Last visit: 08-Jul-2020 Location: Barcelona
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benzyme wrote:Eaglepath wrote:hexagonal wrote:neb wrote:I struggle to find any reliable extractions of psilocybin or psilocin. here's a reliable extraction method: cut up your psilocybin mushrooms, pour boiling water on them, let sit for a few minutes and you're done: your psilocybin/psilocin mix is now in the water (which you can consume if you're into such things and if it's legal where you are ). Go out in nature and do a "pull" with your fingers.. Then basify by chewing hard.. Then you need to "salt it down" by swallowing the base. You could also skip the "pull" by simply stand on all four and eat them like a tiger! that's not the point. the point is the process, to satisfy scientific curiosity. psilocin extraction is one of the more challenging ones, due to its instability. These are jokes.. eat a mushroom and relax! Or do some science "Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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I do science, all day everyday. May have some during a vacation, when I have time. itโs been done, and published, just not with the kitchen utensils people are accustomed to. A turkey baster wonโt cut it for this one. One must use the art of separation science. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..
Posts: 681 Joined: 08-Jul-2017 Last visit: 08-Jul-2020 Location: Barcelona
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Good, a role model! One day I will build my own lab.. and probably then blow my self up! until then I will enjoy the more abstract "Tha Bastard in the kitchen separation" "Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
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โค๏ธโ🔥
Posts: 3648 Joined: 11-Mar-2017 Last visit: 02-Dec-2024 Location: 🌎
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Well, we seem to be able to get to (nor)Baeocystin now. Not perfectly pure, and yield is unkown, but it's something. I'm sure we'll get more progress and go further with benzyme.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1104 Joined: 11-Feb-2017 Last visit: 18-Jan-2021
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Now I have enough dried fruits to experiment with (250 grams ). I am still preparing for the 3-step washing of the alcohol extract I call A-B-C to remember easily: Acetone, Benzene, Chloroform. The latter two are harder to obtain but can be made from easily obtainable items (sodium benzoate, household bleach) with some safety precautions.
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