totally agree i was a fucking little asshole in middle school had a dean like that honestly changed my attitude. i used to bully everyone until i met that man...... he was ex mma deff played a roll lol

Yes, I agree with you, its utterly destructive ideology, it can really drive you out of reality if you don't understand it. There is a difference between getting it and understanding it. I've experienced it enough to know how destructive it can be, within a short time you can see how much it has changed you, but once that lesson is learned, you can really characterize it as a tool to reach your will.
The tricky nature of "getting it" is that you should always know what you are getting, because basically it can be everything. The more you characterize and get to know it, the better the communication with it becomes. In the end, it turns out that you have created something very real. It will either live in you or the world around you as a possible tool.
It has been always there and it will be always there, you are just the one who gets it. It reacts to you the same way as you act to it, as said "You are the one punishing yourself with it.".

The arrogant ones use it no matter the cost. The smart ones dont get it, because they don't need it. The crazy ones are trying to master it. The masters play with it. The best case scenario IMO is to create a balance with it.

That kid should really have something to thrive for, if not, he should really create something to thrive for, no matter how ridicilous it looks, it is the answer.
Tell him to see what life offers to him... I personally saw many of this life's offers, but I still don't buy it I will probably continue using it until I don't find myself in the comfort zone. I've never had big comforts anyway, and its one of the many things I thrive for...
He is still too young to judge his life, he has to wait some time and try the things around him, if he likes someting, he should put it in the like list, if he doesn't like that thig he should put it in the hate list. Once things are sorted-out, balance can be easily made so you can reach whatever you want.
Also, he shouldn't think that he is alone, because he needs a true friend to tune him down to his good side. Be happy that at least he shows you some output of his emotions, because if he lacked such, then you really have no idea what you are dealing with

Thank you Nik for that thought out reply, it gives me much to think about.

I was considered a problem youth by some, and taken under the wing by others to my benefit.

I was never able to use others to my benefit. Even if I was somewhat problematic while young, none believed me when I was saying the truth... they were just telling me "stop lying". The only times when they believed me was when I was saying the truth after my shinenigans.
Further in time, I saw that there was no point to bother others with my problems, up to the point where I had to solve them as fast as I could in order nobody to ask me questions about it.
This is probably the reason why I trust myself way beyond trusting others... I hardly managed to accept others than my family or friends, especially some teachers which I still hate just for the sole reason that even when I did change myself to a better behaviour, their attitude towards me didn't change at all.
For this reason I'm more or less alone in my choices. I don't listen to others if I don't want to listen to them, and probably none can make me listen to him if I don't agree with him. I don't care if people are right or wrong, I want to see it myself... "my own problems on my own head". Thats how I was taught, thats how I will continue.

I don't want to criticize this kid's parents, but IMO, why did they give birth to him if they aren't mature enough to fully care for him? Why do they seek help from others, when the problem is not their child, but the way they teach him how life should be lived. They know their kid better than anyone else, they should know how to help him.

This child is the oldest of three children, and the other two siblings are not behaviorally challenged, from what I've been told.

The events in Newtown are a lesson. Please take appropriate action and do the right thing.

I can speak from direct experience, as a former juvenile delinquent: the adults around you matter. From age 15 to 17 I was in trouble constantly... Never for violence, but just about everything else from car theft to breaking into homes and businesses. I was from a stable suburban family with decent but disinterested parents, and was acting mainly out of rage and frustration. I hated the world that I lived in and had nobody to talk to.

After several trips through the juvenile courts, including a probation officer whom I hated and mistrusted, I ended up in front of the judge again. He was your stereotypical suburban authority figure and I was prepared for the worst. But he surprised me: "Son, I see a lot of gold-plated losers coming through this room. None of them have a future. But you're not one of them, simple as that. I don't want to see you back in here".

It was a weird vote of confidence that I apparently needed, because it got me thinking differently about myself. I had to serve a whole lot of hours of community service, and was assigned to the park district office, where I was welcomed by their motley band of misfits (worthy of their own sitcom) and treated as an equal. Never got in trouble again.

I wish you the best of luck. You've been handed a supreme challenge that may entail a bit of heartbreak. At bare minimum, this will make you wiser and more compassionate. At best, you may be able to help turn this person around, which is one of the greatest gifts you can give to the world. I hope it works out.

Its not a matter of adults or friends around you that matters, the only thing that matter is how the person next to you accepts the things you accept. Nobody likes to see his way of acceptance being crushed by somebody else who don't get it.
Some hours after my previous post, I've been reminded once again that people don't believe me, this time from my friends. Even if it was about something insignificant, it became significant for me once I heared their answer. It was more of a point of preferance than argue, I said my answer just because I believed it to be a better choice, at least for me because I liked doing that. What amazed me from their answer wasn't why they didn't like my preference, it was something close to "even you don't want to do that, you only say that just to make a point and prove yourself that you are right". And as always, I just shat my mouth thinking that there is no point argueing over that to prove my point, it wasn't such a big deal for them anyway. When they left the room, I remained alone once again thinking about stuff and waiting for my first ayahuasca brew to be ready.
Alone in my thoughts, I was preparing my mindset for the things I prepared for 21st dec. "Why am I doing this?", "What do I want to prove?". I've never imagined before that I'm going to do DMT on such a day, actually back then I didn't know what DMT was, I thought that heavy weed was extreme enough for that day. "What happened to me to reach such extremes?"...
Over the last month I've been reading this forum to get to know DMT more (I blame you for making me pick DMT ). I saw that most of my imagination lead me to DMT, because it has the answers that me and my imagination wanted. As always, I had my doubts about what I'm going to get from the ayahuasca - did I bought the right products? Did I prepared it right? Am I going to have some experience or not? Is the experience going to be what I need?
So many questions of the kind of "Who am I?", "What am I going to do in the future?", "What has happened to me in the past?" were passing through my mind, but one thing was certain - I wanted to see what DMT had to offer me... how is it going to accept me in its world.
I will skip the wonderful trip and up to the conclusion that the DMT understood me more than people did. It knew my nature more than I did, it lead me to it, I've never felt so in place.
All I can say is, people caused me to build such a nature and now I'm going to experience my nature. Hehe, the words "What you give is what you take." never made that much sense to me before. Before I always tried to act good no matter if I liked it or not. Now I see that the only things that I care about is what I like, and I don't care if someone doesn't agree with me.
I like to hate things, but all I did was good for the others. I've never got my fair share of the love cake, but now I know why... people think that love and hate are opposite, but I beg the differ. If I like to hate you, I will hate you will all my heart

Nik, I know this is off-topic here... But it sounds to me like your putting an unnecessary weight on people's opinions. Part of becoming liberated is in reaching the point where you don't care anymore. It's good to know what someone is thinking because that tells you if that person is compatible as a friend or acquaintance... But we really can't change what others think. There's no point trying to prove your point to someone who is closed to hearing about it...eventually you just have to become comfortable with the fact that each of us is in some ways alone in the universe, and that we will never really be understood by others except in those rare luminous moments when two people's inner experience coincides so closely that all you have to do us exchange a glance to know, Yeah, they got it too.

The rest of the time, a big part of life's challenge is in making connections to people who understand us. Mostly it's like how you described, with your friends not understanding. That's normal, and nothing to get angry about. Try to enjoy the diversity of perspectives in the people around you, and work harder at learning to communicate. Only you can bridge that gulf.

You obviously shouldn't do anything illegal. But the kid himself seems to have a criminal mindset? You're worried he'll get into crime? Or he already has?

If you wanted to be sorta manipulative without breaking the law, then try to obliquely persuade him to do something he would be willing to do anyway (because he's willing to break the law) but that would, perhaps, lead him to realize the error of his ways? You shouldn't, again, tell him to commit a crime, but you could talk about the effects of a certain form of crime in a way that you knew would appeal to him (without sounding like a command or incitement).

If that didn't convince him he's in the wrong, only he himself could by having a revolution or something inside himself, maybe.

You can always change what others think. Time builds a character. If we live in the same time, we build the same characters, but with some difference. I know its normal to not be understood, but the problem is the way you are not understood. The problem is not that they currently don't want to hear you, but that even when you showed them who you are, they are still too blind to accept that it was you. I'm not angry at them for not understanding me, I'm angry at myself that I don't understand myself. Because of the sole reason that I don't understand myself, I don't play-out myself in life to make others understand me.
When you know yourself, you can play-out yourself, you will show them the way of you, if they like you, they will follow you, if they follow you, they will change.
The problem comes when you don't understand yourself, but you want to be understood so you can understand yourself, but you can't really do that if the others around you don't understand you and in the end you always loop back and forth trying to understand the universe, but you can't. You are caught within the paradox of life and the only way out is as they say "Change yourself to change others.".
When I understand myself, then im not going to understand others, but I will try to do so, and that's the fun in it.
For now, I have my own personal problem to fix in order to believe others.

My personal option is to let him do whatever he wants, he will eventually find his way out. He is so aggressive towards you because you force him to do what he doesn't want. Let him be... sooner or later he will learn how things are. Just help him when he really needs help.

For the sake of the thread, the child identified as Hugh in this brief documentary is very much like the child I am working with. I was struck at the parallels that I was able to draw between the two of them. My student is also medicated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8k0iw1Kon4

For god's sake, I know whats wrong with this kid... you all give him those fake medications created by humans... pff, thats just chemestry without a soul and renders people with soulless behaviour.
What this kid really needs is some DMT This way for sure he will get back to his senses.
But seriously tho, I really think that DMT has the possibility to change this kid's behaviour.

Anyway, I still think that the meds are ruining the kid rather than helping him.

I wanted to revive this thread and just go on record that this kid is

mod wrote:

watch your language

, and just a terrible human being. I'm resigned to that idea. I've accepted it. He just sucks, and he's broken.

They made the word sociopath for a reason. Because there were people acting this way and they needed to have a descriptor.

People who are not sociopaths/personality disordered can benefit greatly for entheogens. Give them to sociopaths, and they have the same experiences, but the take away is different and more total. They are shown that no matter what they do, good or bad, it really doesn't matter. Even if their actions lead to their own imprisonment/death, it doesn't matter. Such a thing can take a hurtful little *expletive* who only wants to gain for their own sake, into someone who doesn't even care about that. This was the case with Charles Manson. So, careful, all you well meaning non-sociopaths suggesting that perhaps DMT could help someone as described in this thread. It could just give them the reasoning they need to completely not worry about consequences.


I wish the ending of this thread was different. Just like you can't convince cyanide to not kill you, you can't make a truly broken mind whole.

Lastly, what was the documentary called? It's taken off of youtube for copyright blah blah, and all i can see is that it's a Louis Theroux Documentary. The rest is not shown for me to search for it. Any info would be nice as i like documentaries.

Was it this one? Louis Theroux - America's Medicated Kids

I didn't read through all 3 of these pages, but a few things caught my attention. This may sound strange at first, but don't overlook the possibility. Aspergers syndrome is aslot more common than one would think. Normally someone with aspergers is extremely weird, rude, clumsy, and just simply has no empaty towards others. But there are various severeties of it. Some can live normal lives but they pretty much have to act their whole lives.

If the kid seems to have a high ego and genuinly has no feelings for others, thats a good sign of atleast a mild form. I know of a teacher(who seems very normal, has a family, and great guy). He hides it very well. He explained that when he was younger, he would do mean things to people. Physically and mentally hurt people. The reason he did it was simply to see if he could feel. Again, he was lucky to be diagnosed while most people with mild aspergers have not. Because of this, he learned to accept it and tries to live by the book and do the right thing.

My brother also has mild aspergers, but not mild enough to have a normal life. Thats why he is in prison.


Don't rule out the fact that he might not have it because it is a possibility. I respect you caring about this kid, even soo much to talk about it at DMT nexus lol. If that is the case, then good luck becasue they are hard to help. I you can do is try to teach them right from wrong, and even if he cant feel any sort of compassion towards others, he needs to show it.

Just my 2 cents from observing others and getting interesting information from a guy, and a friend of mine in the profession who has observed this.

This crossed my mind as well. I do not know enough about asperger's to say "I think he does/doesn't have asperger's", but I am familiar enough with some of the symptoms that I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

IIRC there is at least one, perhaps even a couple of members on this forum who have been diagnosed with either asperger's or autism. Perhaps one of them will chime in on the subject.

dont dig up old threads like that...

I had similar issues when i was i child, though i doubt i was as gifted as this kid is. But many things about this kid ring a clear bell reminding me of myself. I certainly had little to no conscience then and not a big one now, i was able to build around that after a long time though.

My suggestion is to teach this kid about biology and chemistry, any simple interesting things that might help him see how rare or beautiful things are. If you can't inspire a conscience then help him see how rare this planet and life are, so he can have a little more respect and maybe not be destructive.

Experiences into nature, like hiking and camping, as well as entheogens had an enormous impact on this self development, and it took a very long time for me to move past cynical narcissism and disdain for others