so in answer to the op you don"t think DMT is recreational?

Of course i don't think it's recreational!

I hate pubs too BTW.

But after 12 years or more, I think it's pretty important to drive home a general
DMT IS NOT RECREATIONAL message. By my definition anyway.

There are different substances for different settings.
DMT is definitely not a guarantee of a 'good time'. Even if it can be.

After reading over this whole thread, it seems to me that people are debating over the words to describe a way of thinking about DMT.
To me, everyone that chose to give an example of recreational use made it out to be a party drug. Which DMT is most certainly NOT. I really can't see how people could do shrooms or LSD in a party setting, either. Party setting and recreation are not the same thing.

I had fallen into a state of mind about DMT that was less than serious. Let me tell you, I was sorely corrected. Does recreational describe my way of thinking on it? Not really. I can't really describe my way of thinking, but I realized how wrong I was when the power of the thing reared its head at me.

Now, do I do DMT for recreation? Well, anything that doesn't go directly towards one's survival is inherently recreational. I do it for the enjoyment of trying to grow, of having an experience. That's not to say that I don't take care, and deeply respect the thing. There are few things in this world I respect more.

Anrchy had a great point, about snowboarding. I'll give a similar one, but about skydiving. Skydiving is inherently recreational, enjoyable, can be terrifying, and above all it requires the utmost respect. For one to just think "Oh I'll go skydiving" off the cuff is just absurd. To fall into a state of lackadaisical thinking about it is to get killed. To me, the only difference in my description about skydiving and DMT is that DMT will not physically kill you.

Really, I think maybe the word recreational is still a bit off. There's a more fitting word to describe a mindset about DMT that describes a haphazard, lacking respect, partying, uncaring kind of mindset. I wouldn't go around saying "recreational," though, since I know how people could perceive it.

Edit:
I just wanted to also say, I don't mean to offend anyone. I highly respect the view points expressed here, but I just wanted to explain how I think about it. Discussions like this are important. Maybe not everyone is on the same page, but everyone benefits from a better understanding overall.

well said peabody.

There's a weird negative projection of recreation in this thread, probably b/c most people automatically associate recreation with drinking. Even more obvious b/c some people are saying that if it's recreational then you must be taking it in a party or pub environment... This automatic association with recreation is not inherently true...

It's funny that someone made this thread today: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=39229 about DMT helping to restore/reset the brain, which I believe most psychedelics do. It's like hitting the refresh button and clearing your consciousness.

and if we look at the etymology latin stem of the word 'recreation' it is 'recreare' meaning "to refresh, restore," from re- "again" (see re-) + creare (see create).

With that, I do believe that DMT is recreational...

Also, people are projecting a negative connotation on 'fun' as if that's inherent to being lackadaisical or a distraction from reality... This is not true at all. I have fun on roller coasters and they're scary as shit, not even close to lackadaisical, and far from a distraction...

Great guys. Good on you. Just keep linking the word RECREATIONAL (whatever that means to you minority intellectual approach) and DMT. See how that helps it get taken seriously. Just another party drug is how MOST would interpret the term. IMO you're being NOT wise.

Really? I really thought I had put out a well thought and written explanation of how I understand it.

I did, actually.

Now, you are arguing over how we should spin DMT. How we should portray it. That's not what I was explaining.

Furthermore, the fact that there is a 3 page thread on debating how we should view such a thing only says that we aim to be responsible.

Is it not ok for someone to think differently? Are we to just shut up and fall in line, going along with what everyone says? I told you how I think of it. I said I respect DMT. There's really no way you can't and do it for any length of time. I treasure it.

I respect how you, and others view it. It's fine with me, you don't have to think like I do. But if we cannot tolerate people for having other ideas in this community, then I don't belong here. I do not condone dogma of any sort.

Edit:
I'll restate this part from earlier:

To answer the original question, which really was "Do you think DMT would be fun for me?"

I don't think so.

DMT is very mind warping and will expose your secrets to you just like any other psychedelic would (really if you don't like the mind warp/honesty with yourself you'd probably want to avoid all psychedelics).

The duration is much shorter though than hbwr and most other psychedelics but it's also much more intense.

I think 'recreational' has a pretty loose definition and I also think the column in the link below offers a very interesting discussion about the 'recreational' use of psychedelics. I admittedly have not read every post in this thread so my apologies if this has already been posted:

https://www.erowid.org/columns/teafaerie/2012/07/

In particular I would point out this quote: "And smoked DMT is never any fun for me at all! Amazing, yes. Mind-blowing, awe-inspiring, fascinating, revealing, ecstatic, even–yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. But for me the word fun suggests an almost total absence of abject terror, and I haven’t quite made it to that point yet."

I think it is an interesting and sometimes difficult line to draw between 'fun' and 'recreational', and to be honest I cannot say I have put in enough thought to be anything close to capable of drawing that line. It can be dangerous to use DMT for many, but to give anyone the impression that they are more or less well-prepared than anyone else can be dangerous as well.

I consider the use of dmt to be more of a sacrament than a recreation. It deserves a lot more respect than you seem to be willing to give it. After trying to explain it and introduce to some friends that have always been into psychedelics, I became really discouraged at the lack of respect for it's power and how they thought it was just another drug. One friend in particular thinks he is a devout New Age Church of Rock Christian who at the very least could have come to a closer understanding of what God could be. After explaining the basics he wanted to pussyfoot around with a few baby hits that he wouldn't hold in and then refused to close his eyes, stating that he already has miraculous visions when he closes his eyes. He kind of made a mockery of the breakthroughs I had experienced and I had to reevaluate the way I think about sharing this miracle with others. To top it all off after I loaded one up for him and sat with him, I proceeded to blast off and a few seconds into it he had the nerve to scream into my face for no apparent reason. Up until this point I had about 3 great months of fantastic voyages where I could escape this world and leave everything behind. It took at least a few months to get back to the point where I was before this so called friend disrespected me and my molecule. So it's really nice to have a community like this to share with instead of searching for someone stuck in the so called real world to share a mind blowing experience.

Tread Carefully friend

straight up fallacy my friend. the word recreational is not intrinsic to partying. i.e. the fallacious automatic association of recreation with drinking displayed in this thread. I mean honestly look at how many people in this thread assumed that if DMT is recreational that must mean you're in a pub , it's ridiculous and ignorant... so it is YOU who is unwise to speak in absolutes clutching onto preconceived notions that recreation must mean partying with a lack of sincerity.

The actual latin root of the word recreation is 'recreare' to refresh or restore. For myself, DMT and other psychedelics do exactly this for my mind and consciousness. I respect the hell out of that and I consider my recreation, refresh, or restore, to be an occasional occurrence which is actually another definition of the word recreation.

it's also ignorant to say that our little abstract word debate is hurting the level of sincerity surrounding DMT. I don't discriminate, hold prejudice or an elitist attitude on how other people approach DMT. I've got a friend who only uses DMT in fun festival settings but each time has been completely refreshed spiritually and respects the hell out of the molecule. Does that make him an insincere partying douche that's any lower of a person b/c he doesn't do it in his bedroom with a serious ceremony? NO. Get off your high horse people and relax. Not everybody who does DMT is a serious psychonaut.... Not everybody that does DMT is doing a ceremony...Not everyone who does DMT argues about superficial symbolism on forums...You don't need these components to create a respectful relationship with the molecule.

So this whole elitist attitude that you need to be super serious, pragmatic, even dogmatic about approaches to DMT and what words you use, is utterly false, dangerous, and merely a reflection and projection of your own mind set and experience, w/o any relation to the subjective exp of DMT itself.

& Going into DMT or any psychedelic with a stone face serious and smug attitude is possibly the worst thing you can do for your subconscious! Remember your SET is of utmost importance. The greatest advice in altered states is to let go and relax, be care free and positive. Stop being so controlling, whether it's during your trip, or arguing that certain words or approaches are not allowed to be associated with DMT...

haeratic is making a solid point. The definitions of recreation when googled
1./Activity done for enjoyment when one is not working.
2./The action or process of creating something again: "the periodic destruction and recreation of the universe".

Well I can see why people are saying it's not something used for enjoyment, because it is very unpredictable and has very deep meanings/lessons entrenched. But if you the individual feels that they enjoy the dmt experience overall, then why couldnt it be "done for enjoyment when on is not working"

The example for the second definition sounds like a trip report !

exactly. it's all about perspective, and many people in here were trying to project their own into a general consensus.

I also gain plenty of enjoyment from the molecule. This notion that enjoyment cannot be associated with deep meaning or lessons is false.
Enjoyment is "to have and use with satisfaction; have the benefit of." So those who don't enjoy the opportunity and privilege of connecting with DMT, whether easy or difficult exp, I question their intentions.

I think this thread is a good example of the nexus trying to turn DMT into a sacred cow that must be done in certain environments in a certain way, having rigid and narrow meaning to it; nothing else. I've seen a lot of elitist attitudes exemplified in this discussion. Remember that everyone experiences and interprets life differently. Hell, there are years of traditional tribal use of DMT as a bewitching agent to cause harm upon enemies. Can you not see the superficiality of arguing how people use it? It's about perception and you need to respect others whether you agree with their approach or not... Honestly, I could care less if someone uses DMT at a party or a pub, if that's what works for them then so be it, and it might just completely change their life for the better. FFS, there are traditional ayahuasca ceremonies in Peru that have you drink alcohol with the aya... So who's to say that your approach is any better besides yourself...? The dismissal of all else is elitist, prejudice, and discriminant. We're all going to hyperspace either way. Those who abuse and disrespect will be taught their lessons, but don't act like you're the teacher, that is the job of the psychedelic.

Thank you guys, you've put it in better words than I.

I really think people got side tracked on this thread. It was about debating the recreational use of DMT. Others got of on tangents about it being holy, ceremonial, being a party drug, and how we should define the image we present about it. Yes, it is very possible for one to recreationally use DMT, while still respecting it, cherishing it, and being responsible.

I'm not very spiritual or religious. I have a hard time believing DMT communes me with spirits when I end up in a demented fourth dimensional freaky-ass carnival circus place with a being with about 1000 eyes is examining me. As uncomfortable as such a thing like this was, I still enjoyed it, and I enjoyed pondering and integrating such an event.

I understand it is a holy, sacred, sacramental experience for some, but it does not have to be that way for everyone. Just because I see it differently doesn't make me wrong. How I use it or think about is really no one's business but my own.

People imposing their own sense of morality on others is why the world is so messed up, and why DMT is illegal. I don't appreciate it.

Just because I see it in a recreational light, by my understanding of the word "recreation," doesn't mean I am making a bad image for it. It doesn't even mean I use this word to describe it on the rare occasion I converse about it (actually, I never have).

Really, the whole bit defies words. If there is one thing I've learned in my somewhat extensive experience with it, is that it is beyond any words we can try to use to describe it. It's the most bizarre and wonderful thing I can think of, and it does not fit neatly into any box.

I understand your friend was a novice, probably very nervous, and handled it poorly when you were in hyperspace, but by your description it sounds more like you are the disrespectful one...From dismissing and passing judgment on your friend's identity and his idea of god, to saying he pussyfooted by not taking enough hits his first time. & Then you go on to state that DMT is a fantastic voyage to escape the world and leave everything behind... Most people, when talking about disrespectful approaches to DMT, are partly referring to an escapist mentality...

& This isn't a community by old definition. A community used to be about a group of people in the same immediate area and physical environment communing together despite their differences. Now with the internet the definition of community has been bastardized into an individualistic term, where all it means is going to certain websites where you know people share the same sentiments as yourself. Colonizing your mind with a pseudo-community and creating an inner-cult of self gratification.

Sorry haeratic
Didn't mean to come off as a self gratifying elitist. I just expected someone who was supposed to be my friend to show me the same respect that I have always showed him. Sorry if I misused the term community. It must be nice to have so many people in your "community" that share your exact beliefs and recreations. I'm just tired of trying to explain meaningful experiences to people I thought were cool and in return getting some kind of ridicule.
Guess it is the same way on here

wasn't saying that you're a self gratifying elitist... i was referring to internet pseudo-community in regard to self gratification...and I was referring to the general notion in this thread that DMT cannot be associated with certain words or approaches in regard to elitism.

i understand that you want respect from your friend when it comes to DMT. but i find it hard to believe you respect him with how you described him, and I also find it hard to gauge your level of respect for DMT if you're using it to escape reality.

I hear you Crackedfractal,

I think often people don't understand what I mean on the forums, either. It's a fact that a large portion of communication is non-verbal, such as body language, tone, or rate of speech. So, on forums we are as limited as we can possibly be when it comes to expressing ourselves.

I guess that was my main gripe about this thread, is it seems to me people were debating many things. I very well may have (most likely have) taken people the wrong way, too.

great point Mr.P. this is a very difficult and limiting medium of communication. that's a good part of my gripe with so called cyber-community.

I apologize if I came off rude thru my writing to you CrackedFractal, I was just trying to put things into perspective.

Go out in the street and ask 50 random people what they think "Recreactional Drug" means.
Your definitions game is an intellectual joke.
Then go out and ask 50 random people what "Insightful", OR "Fun" means, and see if its the same definition.

And then go and smoke 35mg in a GVG on a bus, or rock concert, or walking down the street.
Could be fun. Also may not be.
Have you done that?

Nah its cool man. I used to have a lot of respect for him but i'm just tired of having one sided conversations with people about their beliefs in a higher power. I used to agree with most of it but anymore I tend to believe certain psychedelics were the genesis of religion. I remember reading something about Soma in the old times that was used to attain a higher consciousness. The people actually considered it to be their god and when it began to be used for recreational purposes the priests banned it rather than have their god being misused. I know I came off as being disrespectful but that really wasn't the case. We had done Lsd and shrooms together plenty of times and thought as spiritual as he was that it would mean a little more to him. I do have a great deal of respect for Dmt and try to use it to understand
my place in the universe a little better. I certainly don't mind fading out of existence once in awhile but it's not necessarily to escape. More like a vacation. Didn't mean to come off as a prick.

Peace