The funny thing about David Icke though is that he claims he came to realize his view of the universe, the "matrix" system, and the big global game because of a shaman led Ayahuasca trip. He actually gives credence to shamanistic practices and believes that they are tapping into something greater. He values his ayahuasca experience because to him, the realization was a gift.

So, this obviously creates a big inconsistency with the whole thing.

Icke's a nutter anyhow. He constructs some great points, and then explodes them with horrendously bad theories.

Wow, a lot of you guys like to gang up on people...a lot of you are the same ones who do it to others in other posts...Won't name names, but you'll know who you are when you read this, I'm sure...You people give this forum and site a bad name, and I think I am going to start a thread on "People who will, without skipping a beat, criticize everyone and anyone else but themselves", and list these guys/names off...Really bad stuff going on, turning possible intellectual conversations into pissing contests all over the place....grow up and open your damn minds, you guys aren't THAT fucking special, ya know? Be kind, be supportive, who cares if its a crazy vid. It's not the poster's fault, it's fucking Alex Jones...c'mon, the guys paranoid, so what? Some of you guys act like everyone's gonna join his cult unless you tell them otherwise...lol...not so, just not so...

And on my own personal note, the things he is saying in this vid are not crazy at all...I came to the conclusion that illuminati used DMT a fuck long time ago, this is not new news...Unfortunately, it's really bad news nonetheless....

But yeah, this guy is losing it towards the end....I don't really know what to make of this..

The way to brainwash somebody is with small amounts of drugs and large amounts of your message. But if you give people large amounts of a psychedelic your message will take its place in the parade of ideas and find its relative importance. So if you come upon a cult or a group or an individual using psychedelic substances it doesn't necessarily mean that they are on a path of spiritual and shamanic transformation. They may be just self-enforcing some private Idaho of illusion" - Terence McKenna

I am


I think the moral of the story is, if you think this man is well informed and try to present him as so in this place... ehm...

well imagine I went to watch a classical music performence and ran around the auditorium trying to convince the audience they should be listening to Justin Beiber...

Basically...

If something sounds, looks and smells rediculous it shall be treated as so.


We're not buying it

Your's sincerely,




Winston Churchill.

The thing is the poster is agreeing with Alex Jones, so its kind of like walking into a christian church and yelling "your god is out to get you, you just THINK god is good and wants you all to go to heaven, when really he wants you to set up a world government and kill everyone who apposes you!"
Ya it may be a little harsh to gang up on the poster but what else can you expect to happen when you come on a forum called DMT Nexus and say stuff like that?
Its kind of asking for it because they are trying to push their belief on the members of the nexus and telling us we are naive for thinking DMT is a positive thing.

you need to calm down and pick and choose your battles. I dont see how starting that thread will help shed any light on anything here..if you want to lend more darkness than that is your deal.

People are allowed to have opinions..especially when it comes to something like this. Alex Jones has zero experience with DMT and he goes off on uneducated rants about it and that is why I think he just looses more credability here.

"It's not the poster's fault, it's fucking Alex Jones"

Well..did you read this whole thread? It is the posters fault when they come on here(with an obvious agenda) calling people names like "DMT fanboys" when someone else does not agree with what they are saying. It is rude and brings to mind a 3 year old baby screaming when they dont get they're own way..

I agree there most likely are secret societies and gov agenencies that use DMT..I also believe to a degree in ET's/other beings and have first hand experience with them(while sober) and have my whole life, and I do believe there is a shift comming. That DOES NOT mean I should all of a sudden believe everything alex jones said. It also does not mean I need to live in constant fear and paranoia like the theme of this thread seems to suggest, or that becasue of that I am just another "DMT fanboy" like the origional poster seems to suggest. Sorry but I dont appreciate being stereotyped.

This is what happens when someone comes here to post and flips out trying to shove they're personal agenda down everyone elses throats, calling them names and profiling us all as "DMT fanboys" when they dont get they're way. The world does not work that way when you are a grownup.

I am not sure what you dont understand about the context that this thread was posted in. You seem to have some other agenda here yourself as you are angry about something that happened in another unrelated thread and that has clouded your ability to see what is wrong here in this thread. You cannot argue that "it's fucking Alex Jones...c'mon, the guys paranoid", since that is not the issue here. Many have already stated opinions on alex jones yet the origional poster resorts to petty generalizations of people, stereotyping everyone as "DMT fanboys"..that is the issue here..the AGENDA and negative/aggressive insistance of the origional poster. Steoeotyping people in that way is well documented..it is called being prejeduce..

http://www.urbandictiona...fine.php?term=predjudice

Second post in someone remarks harmlessly that the video is hilarious, and this is the origional posters responce..

"Typical response from another DMT fanboy. Don't you know what this stuff actually is? Wake up.................."

So, how is this related to what happened in your thread, that you have brought your anger about over here? Are you agreeing with the petty generalizations and negative prejudice's of the origional poster? I am not sure how that is going to help bring any light into the world to help us shift anywhere. If you have a bone to pick from another thread, think carefully about when and where you choose to do so.

I needed to pee heeeeeeps before reading/watching this... I really don't anymore. Dude who posted this: You are paranoid because of an experience you had that you misinterpreted and in your mind it has some correlation with this... your stupid. Alex Jones has gone full retard ...'Oh,but no one ever goes full retard' you say... STFU! Alex Jones just went full retard!

Hey people.

Shall we please keep this debate polite? Calling names or ganging up on people is not the way to keep an healthy debate!

It is clear that litrium has a relation with DMT that is highly fear based. Maybe litrium can talk a bit more about his experiences so we can get some insight into why this fear is making such an impact in his/her posts and then maybe we can get more insight into why DMT might possibly be dangerous for certain people?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

In litrium, I see qualities of a certain type of mind. I've read these types of threads before, they come up every so often, and the personality type, and interpretation of experience seems very similar to others.

- there is a tendency to take altered experience literally.
- the experience is often interpreted in a fear based way.
- conspiracy thinking. Beliefs that someone or something is hiding truth from you


For example, the talk of aliens. I have had experiences of contact with things that seem "alien". If I took my experiences literally, I guess I could say, "I talked to aliens". But if I were talking to a person about my experiences, I would not explain in the terms, "I talked to aliens". I would say something like, "I encountered something mysterious that I cannot explain, and watched what this thing had to show." I've had experiences where I feel as though there are things within my body. But I don't take the experience literally, it's just experience, altered perception experience at that. But that doesn't mean there is nothing to learn from these experiences. There is plenty to learn. I can learn about how my consciousness responds to various perceptions. I can learn to move in harmony with the energies that move through me. But one thing I don't do is say that I was literally invaded by aliens. If I get scared on a journey, I know it is only revealing some fear within me that I have.

DMT experiences highlight the fact that I don't know what is going on. I don't know what I am, or what happens on these experiences. For me to say that I was inhabited by aliens, I would have to define exactly what I am, what aliens are, and what is existence. I cannot do any of those things. So I just watch and learn what I can from the spice.

From what litrium has said, I don't see the experiences as fundamentally different from my own, but the interpretation of those experiences is different. Downloading information, psychic stuff, demonic possession, psychic sex, torture... yeah yeah yeah, I've seen it all. I don't disagree that such experiences occur, but I am not on board with the attitude presented by litrium. I believe the fundamental difference is that one side takes the experience more literally, and has a tendency to form real world, often fear based beliefs, based on altered perceptions. This type of person tends to believe that they have acquired knowledge. While the other side tends to interpret psychedelic experience personally. ie: What does that experience tell me about me. At the same time, this type of person does not usually claim any knowledge about the universe, but rather ignorance. The messages received through psychedelic experiences are more personal. Love, for example, or, "how am I going to deal with this situation I find myself in (existence, that is)."

I believe there will always be people who interpret certain things literally. It's like that everywhere, not just with psychedelics. Some people will see a weird light, and be convinced they saw a ghost. For some reason, it seems impossible to concede that it might have just been a weird light. However, it seems that most people who are in to dmt, at least the people at this message board, do not tend toward the literal interpretation of altered perception experiences.

Unfortunately, the problem I see with the literal interpreters is that they don't seem to want to give insight in to what is really going on in their mind, but rather express how certain they are of this or that. Like if I get in to a discussion with a fundamentalist Christian about the bible, it soon becomes clear that the discussion will never go anywhere. The person is just going to say, "the bible says so, and that's that". One side is not willing to concede ignorance, and the discussion goes nowhere.

So litrium, you are, of course, free to come here and discuss your experience. I too, hope to gain more understanding in to such interpretations.

Good post Apoc!

Here's two very relevant threads to this discussion:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=18572

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&m=134723

Different points of view are interesting only if they come with some EVIDENCE or FACTS or at least clearly defined REASONING. Neither yours nor Alex Jones' comes with any of those.

For many people, uh, "opinions" are formed from some BASIS. What a concept...give it some consideration!

Everyone in life has unique experiences because we all have our own special interpretation, and manner in which we apply those experiences to our life.

I took from my experience with DMT what anyone could take away from anything, just not in such a radically different manner.

There are many things on this planet which can be described as, "Nothing you have ever experienced before in your life."

Wow. I stand in awe. The level of delusion is dumbfounding.
This guy is stuck in a deeply paranoid, delusion. Don't they psychologically diagnose people, before they air their material on TV?

Litrium, you are suffering from paranoid delusions. Just like that ranting guy in the video. No insult meant.
You live in continuous, extreme fear and your ability to reason is suffering severely under it.

There is no reason to assume that "the elves" have any specific agenda, or that they are separate, independant entities to begin with.
There is no reason to believe alien/demonic evil from another dimention is a real threat. When you want to beware of evil, you don't need to
look far at all. In yourself you will find it. And in all other beings. Ego. It is the only true enemy mankind has ever had.

Fractal enchantment and others, apologies for any comments made that may have seemed rude, not my intention.




Firstly Apoc, realize that Shamans of various kinds, not just Ayahuascaros treat these experiences as something very serious and very real, this is why they take various precautions to protect themselves, this is also why they also have the power to heal and also harm. They know that what they are accessing is not how current Western emperical science perceives it to be.

I'm not in any way coming from a fear based perspective. I am simply stating the facts. And the facts stand that many people that have the use DMT have experienced malevolent entity contact and other negative things as I have already stated earlier in the thread.

Some may argue that all these things are from themselves, an aspect of the psyche etc, but at our current scientific understanding that still doesn't even have a solid knowledge of 'consciousness', we should not throw away knowledge of ones that have traversed these dimensions many many more times then most people and have a greater understanding of these realms such as Shamans. They will tell you that these realms are filled with various entities with there own goals, agendas and they are not all benevolent beings.



If you have had these negative experiences which correlate to what I have mentioned then we can agree that they occur, atleast your honest to admit that they do. Now, are they real? Are they not? The truth of the matter is, we don't know and science at it's current stage doesn't know either.

We do know that science has uncovered that quite possibly alternative dimensions do exist, most of the universe is dark matter, that matter is tied together in bizzare ways that makes it seem almost holographic in nature, that there seems to be an implicite order imbedded deeper in the cosmos that in our day to day consciousness we cannot access and cannot see.

Mind you, this is what current cutting edge science is currently studying and uncovering. So in saying that, we shouldn't discount the fact that we are still in an infantile state when it comes to the greater cosmos and how it works. What I'm trying to convey is that if that is true, we should not discount the fact that these realms and experiences could very well be real.




Actually, I am not in a fear based state at all, simply stating the facts. The facts are that negative, you could almost say 'evil' experiences can and do occur on DMT. I am also not implying that that is all that happens in the DMT flash but what I am saying is that it can happen and that it's not that uncommon.

The Ancients, from time immemorial and from every culture known to man believed that evil and good beings do exist. Shamans through all there entheogenic explorations will also tell you that in the other and deeper realms, there are countless benevolent and manevolent entities that one can interact with. It is only this current 'scientific' paradigm that roughly only has a 300 year old history that has taken the view that none of this is 'real'. However with current advances in the scientific fields, they are coming to terms with how little we still know about the universe and our place within it. Maybe we should not look at the Ancients and Shamans as backwards superstitious people. In all likelyhood they have far greater wisdom then most people in the Western Industrialized world.

Let's entertain the notion for a moment that what the Anicents and Shamans say is true, that man has a soul, that most of the universe is hidden from view, that gods, demons and a plenum of other beings and realms exist. If this is true then wouldn't you say that having an evil, manevolent and possibly 'evil' experiance on DMT should be taken a little more seriously?

nope.

evil is as evil does.

1) Who here suggests that DMT use shouldn't be taken seriously?
2) Supernatural demons? So tell us, what are the officially sanctioned, guaranteed to work, methods of protecting against supernatural demons? How could we know whether the proper mode of protection is to NEVER use DMT, or use DMT A LOT?!?!

OK, I will say there was a bit of confusion and laziness on my part. When I wrote my post, I wasn't sure if the point of your post was to say that you agree with what Alex Jones is saying in the video. Also, I'm not even really sure what Alex Jones is saying. Something about leaders of the world using DMT to get information from elves that tell them to kill everybody? To be honest, this whole topic is so weird I hardly know what to say about it. I read a few comments back and forth between you and a few other guys..... I thought I had a handle on what this topic is about, but now I'm not even sure what this whole thing is about. I'm not sure what to say about the Alex Jones interview because I didn't see any proof of his claims. And I'm not sure what your point is. Are you just giving a caution? That maybe taking psychedelics isn't in peoples best interest because some people have bad trips?



What convinces me is my own experience. I've had plenty of experiences that people would likely consider bad.... but I always come out feeling better after. I just learn from the bad experiences. I've encountered demons in trips before. So what? What damage have they done to me? None whatsoever. They frightened me for a while, and that's it. I have absolutely no reason to stop using the spice because it brings awesomeness in to the world, and I have not had any negative side effects whatsoever. That's my experience with it. If someone has a different experience, they shouldn't, and probably won't take dmt. It won't matter what I, or anyone else says about dmt. If they feel bad about taking it, they won't. Just like for me it doesn't matter what anyone says about dmt. If they say dmt is evil, and causes psychosis or is making leaders of the world try to globalize and destroy the planet.... that's total garbage to me, not true for me at all.



The experiences I've had on dmt are the "realest" I've ever had. I don't think science will ever have anything to say about hyperspace, any more than it has to say anything about imagination (the point being, that it's an internal experience, outside the realm of science). Therefore, I'm not really interested in what science has to say about my experience of altered perceptions. The whole experience is 100% complete within me. What could science possibly say about it?

DMT experiences have also been, in some ways, the scariest I've ever had. But an experience being scary doesn't make it negative. The only danger I see from spice use is fear itself. I've been afraid lots of times on dmt. So what? The experiences I've had aren't "negative" per se, they are sometimes scary, and sometimes reveal unpleasant truths about myself, or the nature of existence. For example, the fact that I, and every living thing, is in a constant state of reconstruction and decay. Parts of me are dying off all the time ie: cells constantly dying. I have no reason to believe that dmt causes a particular dying off of anything in the body. Everything about this substance tells me, "it's ok. You can handle this." I also get the message that the nature of being an animal on this planet is brutal. I have to constantly kill and eat animals, and dominate over nature, in order to survive. My body is constantly struggling to maintain homeostasis. My whole life is literally a life and death struggle. But, again, everything about this substance tells me, "you can handle it. This isn't particularly more traumatic than the daily grind your body goes through".

You say that taking dmt might not be in our best interest. But what do you mean by that? What isn't in our best interest? Do you think the entities might be sucking peoples energy, and killing them?



More seriously than what? I do take dmt experiences as serious as I can possibly take anything. DMT seems to reach to the core of my being. What I know about myself is that I'm a temporary phenomenon that is someday going to cease to exist, and no matter what I do, my whole universe will someday fall apart. There's nothing I can do about it. No matter how serious, or not serious I take anything, the outcome will ultimately be the same. The end. So, even if someone tells me that there is some kind of risk of being possessed by an evil psychic entity if I take dmt, I would still take it because I've taken it many times, had tonnes of scary experiences, huge doses, felt possessed many times, and nothing bad ever happens. I always come out feeling better. I guess what I'm saying is, life is full of risks. There are great risks I take when I drive on the road. A lot of people really do die on those roads, and I could be one of them. But I still take the roads. One road I choose to take is the the psychedelic road. Despite the fact that there might be entities in some other dimension that might have benevolent intentions, even though my experiences suggest otherwise, I choose to take dmt. And whether I choose to take dmt or not, in the end, I will wind up exactly the same. Dead. Though I think my life itself is greatly enriched when sprinkled with spice.

Having said all that, I'm sure it is possible for some people to be traumatized for whatever reason, by dmt or other psychedelics. Maybe part of it is they just allow themselves to be freaked out, and a person like me just says, "who cares? Let it be." And maybe some of it is really traumatizing to people. I don't know. However, I don't believe potential entities.

Very nice post Apoc!
Life is full of risk and choices. Many feel safer minimizing risk and in turn are not open to many opportunities. I know that for me the opportunities offered by DMT make the decision easy, it is a risk worth taking.