http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Sk098TV7U < nice deconstruction of the language quote.... If anyone can find that planet/eye picture from 8 minutes in, link me!


"And unlike Terence, I do know what I'm talking about. That may not be "humble" enough for Terence's fans, but so what? Doesn't make it any less true. =)"

i saw a funny reply on RS that seems fitting, forgive my immaturity.
Rome on Tue, 06/29/2010 - 04:45.

we have fooled ourselves for so long about Terence McKenna, and should immediately put aside our previous ideas about our great bard and storyteller and start listening to the TRUE prophet of DMT, the author of this article.

He has put aside his own ego to derail Terence and insist that he is the rightful king of the DMT space, that his ideas are TRUE while Terence's are indeed the false ones.

agreed, the ego can play strange games, eh?"

I asked Dr. Ball this very question.

I asked - "If I may ask, what are your thoughts on the alien abduction experience? Is this merely an egoic projection?"

M - "I'd have to say, from my experience, yes. Everyone I've ever met who has claimed to have had an abduction experience has had serious ego-illusion projection problems. Now, I'm open to having my mind changed, but I have not been energetically impressed with anyone who has personally made this claim to me, and many have, after discussion and work, come to appreciate the perspective that their "experience" was a projection of the self. This realization also generally comes with a deep sense of relaxation, trust, and centeredness (and a deep admission that they've always known this to be true), whereas previously the individual might have been suspicious, paranoid, anxious, and fearful.

Really, alien abduction experiences parallel in many ways classic shamanic initiation motifs. What this says to me is that the specific form of the "content" has shifted, culturally, but the underlying kinds of experiences have remained constant. One could then conclude that these are revealing of the human capacity to "experience" "other beings," but I see no reason to reach that conclusion. What it reveals to me is that there are fairly universal ways that the energy of the mind functions in a projective state. In other words, one can come to an understanding of what is "going on behind the scenes" of the experiences themselves to see more general process of energetic exchange. And as I said before, this tends to help people reach more trusting, relaxed, and centered states of being.

Keep in mind that I work with people on these issues on a daily basis. My compassionate intent is to help people free themselves from their illusions so they can simply live happily, centered, and be responsible for themselves and how they choose to think about themselves and the reality around them. Alien talk never helps people in this regard - it only gives them fear and anxiety, or alternatively, a religious sense of "the aliens will save us!" Neither helps with living in reality, right here, right now.

- M "

"Alien talk never helps people in this regard - it only gives them fear and anxiety, or alternatively, a religious sense of "the aliens will save us!" Neither helps with living in reality, right here, right now."

Yeah I agree with that, reguardless of the true nature of the experience..that is one thing I really dont like about the whole "new age" thing..alot of it seems more an escape..an easy way out of the situation..wouldnt it be so nice if the aliens came down and made all our problems go away, ha..where would the lesson in that be? Im not really into people looking for asnwers to the problem we as a society are in outside of ourselves..we are the source of our problems and we will the source of the answers that dig us out of them.

Thanks for posting that clouds.

For the record..I do agree with alot of what Martin Ball is saying. I used to listen to his podcasts all the time and even ordered one of his books. I agree that we are all one..that all this is ego identification. Everything is a formless ocean of forever being...I just think its equally important to recognie the significant of ego in our daily life, for it is not inherantly a bad thing..its a tool..and like any other tool, its all in how you use it.

Too bad Martin Ball is not a member here so we could have this discussion.

This life is wonderful..I love it. I love being human..I love being able to love others and have them love me back..I love being able to feel the wind in my hair..I love my daily skim sessions at the beach..feeling the awesome power of the ocean..all of these amazing experiences made available to me through ego..yet its my experiences with psychedelics, trancending state-bound conciousness that has brought me back here to see this place for what it really is..a freaking miracle that I do not ever wish to take for granted.

I completely agree. In the end it is about ego-mastery, not ego loss. The ego is a necessary component to our current being.

I too, wish Martin was a member here.

When somebody gets to the point in life where all this spiritual stuff we are talking about becomes an experienced, permanent reality, it may be very difficult to stay in the usual "everyone has their own point of view, we have to be PC with each other" mode of thinking. The perceived reality is too strong, too convincing, too self-reaffirming to do that. It's in your face, 100%.

Now it's understandable that if only 1 of 100 people does that (comes out with a conviction that he/she's right), it's quite uncomfortable for the remaining 99 people. We all remember our human history, the same story over and over again: ego gains power, power disrupts ego, world goes down in annihilation. With all of that in our past, we are rightfully cautious with any form of such authority.

But there is also Nietzsche. Probably not the greatest example, but he brought forth the idea quite well. I think we should try. I think our culture now has the necessary safety mechanisms to experiment again with the idea of the Übermensch. Which is what Martin Ball is destined to be, if my intuition is correct.

Please don't let yourself led astray by the connotations of Nietzsche and the Übermensch idea. Try to separate the wheat from the chaff. Try to imagine a pure human being, who is living 100% with the force. Imagine a being who finally learned how to transmute the energy into loving kindness and compassion, so instead of war, it becomes flowers. The same energy we are so much afraid of can also nurture us, if it is alchemically transformed via the human mind. The wrath of God may become the love of God, through us.

Now, what happens if not only one person walks this path but several? Let's imagine for a moment that not only Martin Ball speaks "from the heart" but also burnt learns how to do this, how to live like this.

There will be two (three, four, ...) people who all do their own thing, express their own truth as Absolute Truth. And they all feel that their truth is 100% reality. What happens then?

By logic, one could say that if several views are stated as 100% truth then only one of these views may be correct. But if one would inspect the structure of the various truths, it would be found that all of the truths are internally consistent. They are all proper, 100% descriptions of the same reality. The discrepancies appear only when these truths meet each other.

What do we do then? One solution is to draw demarcation lines: building countries, nations, sects, subcultures. This is the current state of the world. But I feel there is a better way. And it has to do with what fractal enchantment referred to in post #27 as "true transcendentalism" (great post btw).

The idea is that there is a way to reconcile the basic duality of 0-1, of God-Ego. The slices of the cake can become conscious that they are separate slices in the same cake. And then they can also see - and this is what is important - that each slice has its own function in the tapestry of the whole.

Therefore when Martin Ball says something with 100% authority, and then burnt says something completely different, also with 100% authority, then the question of who is right is actually meaningless. Both are right, in their own world, in their own slice of the cake.

But there is something here that is still missing. The ego wants to win. It wants to be better than the other slices. And there is no problem with that. We can still do that. But for this, we need a different measurement of goodness. And that measurement may be our distance to God.

What I mean by this is that if you have 100 people, all of them living their own ways, then the only way to determine who is better than the other is to see how well each of them does their own thing. And the way to determine that is to see into his/her life and see how well he/she could express, manifest, actualize those particular values, that particular slice of life that he was called here to expose and hold up.

If all the 100 people are expressing their own world, their own slice, their own planet (green, blue, red, ...) in the possible most effective way, then the world may turn into a Garden of Eden.

In the sincere hope that you can do something with all of this:
clx

(And thank you folks, I love you all.)

Let's get into the depth of this and see whether it's painful or not.

Martin Ball may think he got closer to the 100% true way of being than most (all?) of the other people he sees around him. This gives you quite uncomfortable feelings. Now, if you would live your own slice of life in the same 100% way (I don't know, perhaps you already do!) then you would have NO NEED to feel threatened by such statements. You could smile - knowing the mechanism, the reason why he is boasting like that -, maybe tell Martin Ball to get back a bit, advising him that what he wants to achieve can be done much more elegantly (he behaves like an elephant in the porcelain store).

Or perhaps you would oppose him vehemently - but no, I don't think this would fit into your world, so burnt comes to the rescue again So burnt would fight with Ball, and it would be a noble war, not the disgusting ones we have seen in the past where not real men fought with each other, but clouded egomaniacs. And such a war would be experienced as something beautiful.

(With this last paragraph, I attempted to bring back the dark side to the equation, in its rejuvenated, cleansed, purified form, so that the picture becomes whole again. I know this is where the road becomes slippery, but this is of utmost importance. The world must be whole, it must contain everything and it must be balanced. If we can channel the dark side in a visible, understood, culture-supported way, then we are done.)

I think he was just polite as an intellectual. He totally believed in most of what he told us, otherwise he couldn't have put it so eloquently. Saying "in my opinion" or "I think" is just a way to be compassionate with those people who cannot overcome/transcend (yet) the cognitive dissonance which appears when someone speaks from his/her heart.

Wow. I haven't been so personally invested in a dangerous high voltage rivalry like this one since Team Edward vs. Team Jacob.

The article is well written and brings up some valid points. Martin Ball is an articulate guy. Unfortunately, he's also a bit of a windbag and often seems to exist in the kind of irony free zone that McKenna never did. He's picking on a dead man who unfortunately can't be here to defend himself (or his vocal tone and delivery), and it all of it smells to me more than a bit of earth bound professional jealousy. Aside from all that, I do listen to his podcasts occasionally and I've often found them interesting (once I get past the pukey music and requisite 10 minute begathons). His show introduced me to James Oroc, so I have to thank him for that. Tryptamine Palace is an awesome read (although Oroc too is more than a bit dismissive of DMT). I would highly recommend it as must read material for all serious students of psychedelia. And who knows? Maybe 5-Me0 is the fuckin' truth and DMT is just fireworks. I haven't experienced 5-Me0, so I'm certainly not qualified to compare, but DMT takes me to a state of grace, a place of impossible profundity. Ball seems to be in some kind of competition for baddest tripper on the planet - or at the least, baddest shaman/most respected cult hero/guy with the most Google searches.

To be completely honest here, I'm not such a McKenna fan either. I read True Hallucinations and absolutely hated it. But he was a passionate nutball and an oddly endearing spokesguy, and had he not been who and what he was, I and a great many others (Martin Ball included, most likely) may never have discovered DMT. His metaphorical descriptions bear no resemblance whatsoever to my own experiences, but neither do anyone else's (again, Martin Ball included). Yes, his goofdick machine elves stories continue to pigeonhole a great many people into limiting preconceptions - but he was a crazyman burning with passion and awe, just trying to share the divine. To pick on his voice is cheap and petty. To bag on the guy for being fearful of the experience is just juvenile hubristic assholiness.

On whether or not the experience is a reflection of all that is me, I tend to agree with Ball. It's weird and inexplicable enough, however, that I don't think of it in absolutes. A PHD doesn't mean jack shit in hyperspace. Think for yourselves and beware the prophet with too many hard and fast answers.

Great post, Art. I agree, Terence was a nut with a microphone who passionately and fervently spread the gospel of psychedelics and more importantly deep tripping. He encouraged us to take higher doses and blast through the personal and earthly aspects of the trip and seek the divine. I have never encountered entities during my travels, so I can't speculate as to their authenticity, but I do find it interesting that Terence saw elves who made things out of language. This is a perfect metaphor for Terence, the man was a fucking elf machine high on language. Ball does make some insightful points, but he does come across as a blowbag who is drowning in his own ego as he condemns Terence for the same crime.

There is such a thing as duality. Two is exactly like one, just different.

Interesting link the article points out, Terrence certainly does have a way with words, he loves using the ones that are just so out there, and in long, pupating, irridescent streams of neon obsidian magic, too.

What’s so special about Martin Ball’s theories about the workings of the Universe? What he says doesn’t seem to be groundbreaking or even original – everything is energy, everything is one, individuals are parts of a fractal energetic whole, etc. He seems to think this is really profound and original. I don’t think it’s either.

Why should we get all excited about the Martin Ball Doctrine?

Because the Entheological Paradigm is the lens of absolute truth, of course.

What Martin talks about makes a lot of sense. His ideas are somewhat original because he
doesn't use fantasy in any of the systems that he proposes. He isn't afraid of making egos uncomfortable. He speaks authentically from his heart. The main thing that Martin teaches is to be authentic with yourself, and if you are being truly authentic with yourself at every moment, then you are on the right track.

There really is no duality.. and by that logic, Martin's system makes a lot of sense to me.

I don't think I have heard anyone else propose the same system as Martin.. and if anyone has, they should point me in that direction.

I don’t want to bash Martin Ball too much – I actually like much of what he has to say, but he is suffering from severe delusions of grandeur if he thinks he has found “The Truth”.

Do you honestly believe that “to be authentic with yourself, and if you are being truly authentic with yourself at every moment, then you are on the right track” is an original idea? Who hasn’t said that at one time or another?

You say his ideas are original because “he doesn't use fantasy in any of the systems that he proposes”. I’m not very familiar with the details of his manifesto, so I can’t critique it comprehensively, but he talks about “blocked energy centers”, “aligning divine energy”, “to be human is to be God in a body”, etc. Some might call such topics fantasy.

Gibran2 wrote:



And not particularly original to boot.

-"the kingdom of heaven is within", new testament, attributed to Jesus.

-the hindu notion of the chakras, and aryuvedic medecine more specifically

-open the Tibetan book of the dead to almost any page

-scan this forum - it's all been said here, by nearly everyone!

- bashar, for BLEEPS sake!!

-deepak chopra

-any other of the myriad self professed and self-styled gurus

His ideas are about as ancient and unoriginal as they come. He has the New Age penchant for picking and choosing what most suits him from the religious texts of the world, then disregarding the rest.

Interesting? maybe, to some. But I define interesting as bringing something new to the table. Mr. Ball's table is a hodgepodge of authentic, re-appropriated and ancient ideas (written in the prose of an eloquent 15 year old).

JBArk

Authenticity is only a part of it. He goes into specifics in his book "Being Human". The main belief is that we are all God experiencing life subjectively.. and I too believe that to be human is to be God in a body. He goes into detail about how to work with entheogens to awaken the divine within so that we can align ourselves with our true authentic nature.

There is no fantasy in any of what he proposes. What he speaks, he believes to be absolute truth, and I do believe that what he has brought forth in his book may very well be absolute truth. He brings no fantasy to the table. Every religion that has come forth in the past is absolutely brimming with fantasy. (including the "religious" following that some have with Mr. McKenna)

To believe in an afterlife such as heaven or a hell is fantasy. There is no proof that either exists.. And this is something he points out as well. When one believes in an afterlife, one tends to not take this life as seriously. All we EVER have is this moment.

(..how about we get this back on track to the original subject..)

This isn't about whether Martin's theories are right or wrong.
This is about whether or not Terence lead people down the wrong track by telling people the things that he saw while experiencing DMT.

DMT can be used more appropriately as Martin HAS pointed out in his book "Being Human" (which I HIGHLY recommend to anyone here to read).. and the fact that Terence told these wild stories about his DMT trips, led a lot of people astray from using DMT to open up to their energetic centers. A lot of people only smoke DMT for the visuals and the entity contact.. not the TRUE breakthrough, which is union with G/d.

are you even listening to yourself? No fantasy in what he proposes...he believes he has the absolute truth (but Terence had the Ego issues???). If this is about Terence leading people down the wrong path you have to acknowledge that Ball (from the "next" person to come along's pov) could be said to be doing the exact same thing. You really havent differentiated the two very well. If you're criticizing Mckenna for doing it, you have to criticize Ball as well. If anything, Mckennas NUMEROUS disclaimers as to what he was saying make his view much less misleading than Ball's, as Mckenna presented them as "nontruths" whereas Ball seems to be presenting it as "absolute truth".

[/quote]His ideas are about as ancient and unoriginal as they come. He has the New Age penchant for picking and choosing what most suits him from the religious texts of the world, then disregarding the rest.

Interesting? maybe, to some. But I define interesting as bringing something new to the table. Mr. Ball's table is a hodgepodge of authentic, re-appropriated and ancient ideas (written in the prose of an eloquent 15 year old).

JBArk

[/quote]

As I have stated, all ancient religions are completely littered with fantasy. Belief in afterlife is purely fantasy. We have no proof that there is an afterlife.. so I cannot take any of those beliefs seriously.

There is truth in some of these ancient texts, and Martin has successfully taken them out.

If they are true.. then why not?.. If Martin is trying to claim that he knows the absolute truth, then it would be NECESSARY to take these elements from ancient religions.. for there are GRAINS of truth in EVERY religion.

Yes, and I believe that it may very well be possible that he has figured out the absolute truth. I won't say that it IS the absolute truth.. But I think it is highly plausible.

He isn't touting fantasy like McKenna.

Everything that he says makes sense to me. I would like someone to point out something that he has said that can be proven to be false.

What if what he is saying IS absolute truth?