First of all, let me say that I am a well-experienced psychonaut and I have had an enormous variety of things happen when smoking spice. I observed them all with a broad-minded equanimity.

I have encountered beings I could physically feel but could not see. I have run across extradimensional peep shows which attempt to draw my attention by way of clamorously prodding a nerve in my brain I never knew I had. ("Yaaargh! Stop it! STOP IT!" ) (the peep shows are pretty cool, though.) I have had my body reduced to nothing, and rebuilt one millimeter-thick layer at a time. I have met entities whose natural environments or language were something right on the edge of humanly bearable sensation. I have triggered things which I can only describe as freelance infectuous memes.

Although some of it was pretty extreme, none of it was anything I wouldn't regard as an acceptable part of the hit-or-miss of interdimensional travel.

A week or so ago, something happened while smoking that I hesitate to describe in detail because I suspect it is of the infectuous meme variety, and I don't want to spread it. I'll put it like this: it was sudden, felt more-real-than-real, and was truly horrifying. It felt like everything else I knew was the hallucination, and IT was the reality, and it was going to be unspeakably hellish. Totally, totally, no joke.

Now, I am not given to superficial fears or paranoia. When I was sixteen, I was kidnapped and raped (by someone I knew) and I got away against considerable odds. With hindsight I have actually found this empowering, and I practically never think of it. I've been through some other hair-raising stuff; but for decades now my life has been good, mellow, optimistic and filled with joy. My point here is that I am no lightweight. The worst nightmares I have (and I hardly ever have them) are about relatively goofy things like romantic betrayal or something. I don't even watch horror movies. So I am inclined to think that this came not from inside me, but was rather a bad, bad pocket dimension of evil.

The problem is, now whenever I smoke, I get one hit in and am suddenly terrified that I might end up back there. I have repeatedly done visualizations where I picture myself back in that situation and then take decisive control. (unfortunately, this requires suspension of logic and disbelief.) This tactic works temporarily, but once I take a hit I'm terrified again. I don't know what to do. I don't have a trip buddy that I can ask to stay with me.

This is my favorite recreational activity, I feel like it's being taken from me. Help?

I had the very similar experience as you, but a year ago. I have written a couple of posts here, check them out:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=884183#post884183
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=898360#post898360

I can totally relate to your words, it felt ultra-intense, more than real and had this vibe of hellishness. As if some entity had dragged me out there to make a point that this is no games.



I tried smoking twice after my "hyperreal" experience, but same as you I got terrified after 1 hit that I might go back to that place, so I fought with the spice every time.

I also had feeling that I might rip through veil of reality on other substances after that for several months, that feeling of getting closer to popping out of this world.

Now it has subsided, but I still wait for the right time and calling of the spice before I resume.

I think you just need time to integrate and make your judgements out of your experience.
For me it was two things:

1) learn more before you come back, this ain't a toy to play with, but a tool
2) this reality is very precious and is a blessing, rather than burden, enjoy while it plays out for you

So that's what I am doing now - learning more and enjoying this reality

Thank you, Exitwound, for your reply. I deeply appreciate it. If I may ask, in what way were the scary entities you encountered scary? Did you fear physical harm from them?

Because in the place I went it was humans that menaced me, with very human fears. Cold, brutal, but human. I feel almost as if it was a place humans themselves have brought into being, with their fascination with mortification of the flesh.

My fear was primarily because I was convienced that I did break myself this time, reached point of no return, that's it, game over, what a stupid way to end it all. There was no connection to physical body that I felt, I didn't even think about breathing/not breathing or body at that point. The switch from here to there was instant, and intensity (realism) of the vision was so unbearably sharp and vibrating from all the energy within. This also contributed to the fear factor.

Entities - I couldn't remember details afterwards, only that at first there was something black-shaped lurking on the edge of vision, which was weird because I was feeling as if my vision was peripheral. Then something (probably the same entity) grabbed me from behind and dragged me in some direction, I remembered that I had observed/met with some other entities and the encounters were very intense and vivid, one of them big dragon/serpent-like, but I didn't bring back any details about this part back, but the shock from the realness of the encounters. Then I had rest of the trip alone searching thought counless dimensional levels and trying to reach our dimension.
I also had "remembered" that I have already been there, when I got there.

I think that we create our own gods and demons, personal and collective. Then they get to roam free from us in the ocean of consciousness.

You state that you observed all other experiences with broad-minded equanimity, and now you have an extreme aversion to a particular experience which you try and fight. You are taking it away from yourself, it is not being taken from you... you're even framing the situation as a fight.

I don't think anyone can know the fundamental cause, but it seems likely that most people have some probability of having a traumatic experience on DMT. If you take it again and again and again, eventually you might find your own personal hell and struggle to return to what you appreciated about the drug.

Maybe you could choose to take some time off, recover and reevaluate. DMT use being your favorite recreational activity maybe isn't the healthiest thing (I don't really know about recreational use of psychedelics in general though).

That's just an opinion though.

I had a sim exp months back, felt like an eternity in hell.

I took some time off and now started keeping my eyes open during the trip, it seems to not last as long but I straight up see all the fractal patterns and even beings right in front of me.

it's a whole other level of dmt... shutting your eyes can make you forget who you are and strike terror in the subconscious you as it did me.

I can tell you are really smart!=) Breathe!
Maybe change the body posture; forehead towards the sky...? u probably know this though.

Once u experience terrible things you are conditioned to avoid it just like when there is pleassure one wants to repeat it...beyond pain and pleassure...beyond the psychological images we have edificated, what lies?..

like when you had a nightmare once, it felt so real and scary. the next night you were going to sleep you were probably nervous but then it doesnt happen and its nothing...gets lost in time, which is the processes of the brain--the time from one thought to the next. So thought can not solve the problems thought has created. the experience--dreams and dmt--lie beyond thought (the fact is no one has been able to think out what dreams or dmt is, freud and mckennas writings are tiny specs of understanding in this large mural of knowledge.)

Confidence that is not superficial...not self improvment, beyond the self. feel what u are deeply. so there is no hurt. there is no identification with the pain...and so u dont hold on to the pain...which is an image..
because the truth is that light in u, deep. always safe, confident...fear is there, like bugs and problems of food and shelter, u know, money whatever...but one doesnt have to fall prey to any of these. because outside of time thought can not exist...thought is at the root of fear...fear is the root of the problem. so fear can only exist through time which is thought. but timelesness is the light in you! which is love. so if its in u all that must be done is let it out instantly. so when u go and smoke next time it is with such a truth, such a confidence and understanding that when fear strikes (and it might) that the deepnes is in you is in such a revolt against fear that it pierces through its superficial facade...because fear is deep so if my deepness is free of fear (and we have said that thought is the root of fear) then fear is detected like a bug...u catch it before it has sucked 1lb of blood out of u...catch it without fear but acceptance.

Better yet, the fact is if one stayed away from dmt for some time the whole of the brain would have changed so much through time that it would probably feel like smoking for the first time again...adventure-fear, not black fear.

If u sense this is not round, this text is not complete enough, it is because I have not gotten there yet either=) still truckin...so what is fear? feel that deeply. vast sense of space of the unknowable...thats why its dark in space=)

A good shroom trip might help...learn to do something which u love. And stay healthy=) u so got this man. u are it!

I've had a very similar experience on lsd of terrifying indescribable fear. However this fear didn't feel like it was connected to any thing just infinite fear. Pretty sure in the moment I was dead. So I just accepted that I was going to die and be trapped in the fear. But than once I accepted the fear I realized that there was nothing behind the fear. I think all psychonauts will eventually come across it. But its how we take the fear that matters. Its how we see through it that will lead to our salvation. Integration is key.

TP, check out "Summerhill" by A.S. Neill.
He will offer a healthy alternative to mortification of the flesh
that is very easily understandable. If you get the hints, the book
will do immense healing for you and it is a damn fun read!

I'd dare to say that some level of expierience is such that it doesn't matter if your eyes are open or close.

FranLover
If fear us only a product of thought and time, does it mean that love is as well?

No, love stands outside of time, is timeless. It even feels like that. Its very mysterious to me cause...who is it that cares about the thirst of an obscure plant or about the well being of a small lizard? very deep, cause there is no thought out of which that tenderness arises. hence love is outside of time, out of thought, something completley different.

Your soul is your shield.
Do not feel the need to yield,
Fear will create a field,
Sometimes seeming too real.

Enjoy Life. Let it go.
Easier said than done, i know.

Took me many slaps in the face,
but I finally feel a sense of grace.

Enjoy the world.
Be good to this place.

If the realms of DMT say, "Take a break."
There be some chances [changes] you must take [make].
Actions, reactions, below and above.
No matter the struggle, there will only be love.


But, remember.... have some FUN



ACY

"Actions, reactions, below and above.
No matter the struggle, there will only be love."

That gave me shivers! Thank you

Thanks all.

One of my favorite sections of the bhagavad gita, the section where arjuna (the warrior prince) begs Krishna to give him the 'cosmic vision'. He longed to see into the depths of being, into the depths of who he is [i.e: Krishnas "ultimate nature"]. Suffice to say shortly after receiving the vision of 'things as they are', he quickly backpedaled and pleaded with krishna to reutrn things to their earthly corporeal appearance, the vision was too much:

(Some sections from this chapter)


a r j u n a

Just as you have described your infnite glory,
O Lord, now I long to see it. I want to see you
as the supreme ruler of creation. O Lord,
master of yoga, if you think me strong enough
to behold it, show me your immortal Self

k r i s h n a

Behold, Arjuna, a million divine forms, with an
infinite variety of color and shape. Behold the gods
of the natural world, and many more wonders never
revealed before. Behold the entire cosmos turning
within my body, and the other things you desire to see.

But these things cannot be seen with your
physical eyes; therefore I give you spiritual
vision to perceive my majestic power

s a n j aya

Having spoken these words, Krishna, the master of
yoga, revealed to Arjuna his most exalted, lordly form.

He appeared with an infnite number of faces,
ornamented by heavenly jewels, displaying unending
miracles and the countless weapons of his power.
Clothed in celestial garments and covered with
garlands, sweet-smelling with heavenly fragrances,
he showed himself as the infnite Lord, the source
of all wonders, whose face is everywhere.

If a thousand suns were to rise in the heavens
at the same time, the blaze of their light would
resemble the splendor of that supreme spirit.

There, within the body of the God of gods,
Arjuna saw all the manifold forms of the universe
united as one. Filled with amazement, his hair
standing on end in ecstasy, he bowed before the
Lord with joined palms and spoke these words.

a r j u n a

O Lord, I see within your body all the
gods and every kind of living creature. I see
Brahma, the Creator, seated on a lotus; I see
the ancient sages and the celestial serpents.

I see infnite mouths and arms, stomachs
and eyes, and you are embodied in every form.
I see you everywhere, without beginning,
middle, or end. You are the Lord of all
creation, and the cosmos is your body.

You wear a crown and carry a mace and discus;
your radiance is blinding and immeasurable. I
see you, who are so difcult to behold, shining
like a fery sun blazing in every direction.

You are the supreme, changeless Reality,
the one thing to be known. You are the
refuge of all creation, the immortal spirit,
the eternal guardian of eternal dharma.

You are without beginning, middle, or end;
you touch everything with your infinite power.

Te sun and moon are your eyes, and your mouth
is fire; your radiance warms the cosmos.

O Lord, your presence fills the heavens and
the earth and reaches in every direction. I see
the three worlds trembling before this vision
of your wonderful and terrible form.

The gods enter your being, some calling
out and greeting you in fear. Great saints sing
your glory, praying, “May all be well!”

The multitudes of gods, demigods, and demons
are all overwhelmed by the sight of you. O
mighty Lord, at the sight of your myriad eyes
and mouths, arms and legs, stomachs and fearful
teeth, I and the entire universe shake in terror.

O Vishnu, I can see your eyes shining; with open
mouth, you glitter in an array of colors, and your
body touches the sky. I look at you and my heart
trembles; I have lost all courage and all peace of mind.

When I see your mouths with their fearful teeth,
mouths burning like the fires at the end of time,

I forget where I am and I have no place to go. O Lord,
you are the support of the universe; have mercy on me!

I see all the sons of Dhritarashtra; I see Bhishma,
Drona, and Karna; I see our warriors and all the kings
who are here to fight. All are rushing into your awful
jaws; I see some of them crushed by your teeth. As
rivers flow into the ocean, all the warriors of this
world are passing into your fery jaws; all creatures
rush to their destruction like moths into a flame.

You lap the worlds into your burning mouths and
swallow them. Filled with your terrible radiance,
O Vishnu, the whole of creation bursts into flames.

Tell me who you are, O Lord of terrible form.
I bow before you; have mercy! I want to know
who you are, you who existed before all creation.
Your nature and workings confound me.

I rejoice in seeing you as you have never been
seen before, yet I am flled with fear by this vision
of you as the abode of the universe. Please let me
see you again as the shining God of gods. Though
you are the embodiment of all creation, let me see
you again not with a thousand arms but with four,
carrying the mace and discus and wearing a crown

k r i s h n a

Arjuna, through my grace you have been
united with me and received this vision of my
radiant, universal form, without beginning
or end, which no one else has ever seen.

Not by knowledge of the Vedas, nor
sacrifce, nor charity, nor rituals, nor even by
severe asceticism has any other mortal seen
what you have seen, O heroic Arjuna.

Do not be troubled; do not fear my terrible
form. Let your heart be satisfied and your fears
dispelled in looking at me as I was before

s a n j a y a

Having spoken these words, the Lord once
again assumed the gentle form of Krishna and
consoled his devotee, who had been so afraid.

a r j u n a

O Krishna, now that I have seen your
gentle human form my mind is again
composed and returned to normal.

That was beautiful. Everything has its opposite. Ying and yang. My wife and I got a copy from some monks(?) at Bonnaroo several years back that were going from tent to tent giving them out for whatever you wanted to give them for it. My wife has read it through, though I have not. She’s read me many other quotes that are just as interesting as that. It’s quite a book.

I think that at least you should try to avoid getting in a sort of situation where on the one hand you realy want to do DMT again and think about it all the time, but on the other hand you are too affraid to actually do it. Because that's exactly the type of situation where you get stuck. Your mind becomes like a broken record that keeps repeating itself.

It's better to either take a break from DMT and just find something else that is meaningfull and exciting, or you ignore or confront your fear and take DMT again.

You could also try another hallucinogen for a change. Bufotenin is very DMT-like, but less immersive and more manageable. You could maybe use it as a sort of "practice". If the experience becomes this dark again, it is much more easy to navigate yourself out of that place.

i had a similar experience , and it also repeated itself for a couple of times which led me to take almost a year break of dmt.

everytime i smoked everything instantly changed into something really sinister and it felt like a being told me it finally had me and that i was stuck forever alone.
something like that it had a particular vibe to it that i cant remember anymore.

i do smoke again but with more respect and awe then before and mostly my experiences are fine..sometimes tho that same vibes comes up but nowadays i try to remind myself no no this will pass im not stuck im on my couch im ok...im not always totally sure if im right tho but i can handle it now

Thanks, tatt.



<3

Amazing, thank you i think i needed this.

and Tatt thank you, i experienced what the warrior had experienced, still confused, not as to what i saw, but "what now"?
Some random dude on reddedit forum quoted anon "Before enlightenment, carry water, chop wood. After enlightenment, carry water, chop wood."
which leads me to this ratrace of life we're all stuck in, and "what now"?
Run around sharing the gospel of love?