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Changa vs non infused herbs Options
 
AlchemicalGnostic
#21 Posted : 3/3/2017 6:15:55 PM

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If i can't all of my alks to dissolve will the infusion still work?
"We are the gods of the atoms that make up ourselves but we are also the atoms of the gods that make up the universe." - Manly P. Hall
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
pitubo
#22 Posted : 3/3/2017 10:08:09 PM

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AlchemicalGnostic wrote:
So i just dissolved the harmalas in the ethanol and it turned to a clear yellow. does that mean its all dissolved or does it need to be clear?

When it is (reasonably) transparent, then it is a solution. The color doesn't matter.

AlchemicalGnostic wrote:
If i can't all of my alks to dissolve will the infusion still work?

The quality of the end result will be less. I described the reasons earlier.

BTW, if the the harmala freebase still has a lot of sodium carbonate impurities resulting from freebasing, the sodium carbonate will not dissolve in your ethanol. This could also be a cause of alkaloids seemingly not dissolving completely.
 
AlchemicalGnostic
#23 Posted : 3/3/2017 10:45:36 PM

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Okay thanks pitubo!
I have alredy fully dried my changa and I'm currently in the curing process.
Can't wait to test out the final product!Rolling eyes
Thanks for everyones help especially yours pitubo. drying it on a hot plate definitely help sped up the process.
"We are the gods of the atoms that make up ourselves but we are also the atoms of the gods that make up the universe." - Manly P. Hall
 
Nereus
#24 Posted : 3/3/2017 11:30:34 PM

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pitubo wrote:
You are not stating it explicitly, but are you still under the (widespread unfortunately) assumption that dmt freebase boils at 50 degrees centigrade? In any case, it does only so in a particularly high vacuum. Under normal conditions of atmospheric pressure, the boiling point of dmt is somewhere between 360 and 400 degrees centigrade.


No, not assuming a bp of 50C for dmt. Just a taken safety measure within it’s melting point limits,and what i find to be enough in terms of heat for most procedures involving dmt.

While on the subject, i am aware of the high bp theories of dmt. Can be found in this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=12697
and nexus wiki:
Quote:
Boiling point: No mention in literature, predicted by chemspider: 332.1±25.0 °C


But other than that i could not find a finite result in literature regarding the subject.Surely i am not looking in the right places. If the exact values are known and are sourced somewhere in literature I think it would be great to have them reminded here also, if not i presume what the nexus has already provided until now is more than enough.

pitubo wrote:
… but that is really only relevant in a situation where the dmt has a considerable exposed surface area and a substantial flow of air over this whole surface area. That clearly isn't the case here. There is only a small portion of dmt exposed at the relatively small surface area of the boiling or near boiling ethanol.


Already i’ve stated that heat assisting the etoh for a faster evap might be ok, but out of personal preference and reasons, i’ve chosen not to. One of these being that after the etoh is almost gone, the actives become exposed(will go into the subject later in the post).

Ethanol is already volatile. I never said that it could take days, weeks even to evap, as stated by Waeoo for IPA in the other thread, no. Simple put, etoh is volatile, more so the dryer it is. If one wants a high speeding up of the process, increasing air circulation, even by a small fan, should get you there in a couple of hours, tops.Afaik it happens so fast that you constantly have to remind yourself to check on it as to not run dry unnoticed.

As for the remaining water, well that can be easily pushed out along with the ethanol remains during the curing process… we’re only talking about a small water percentage here. The curing process as we know involves refrigerating airtight containers, making a routine in opening and closing them etc.That also is a very good and fast process, leaving one with a nonstick, dry end result.

pitubo wrote:
By letting the changa air dry at ambient temperature over extended time, you are allowing a lot of atmospheric water to accumulate in the changa. Additionally, the freebase dmt and freebase harmalas in the wet changa are subjected to atmospheric CO2. Water and CO2 form carbonic acid and this will convert the freebase alkaloids into carbonate salts. These salts evaporate less freely and at higher temperatures than the freebases, leading to more thermal degradation and oxidation when the changa is actually smoked or vaporized.


This is interesting but no offence, i’m not buying it. For example, in normal atmospheric conditions,i can say that anhydrous solvents absorb humidity from the air quite hard, i know it for a fact. Sure could be an issue for the ones living in humid environments, but these are exceptional cases.

pitubo wrote:
The problem that I see with that approach is that the prolonged exposure that it requires may actually be more detrimental to the end product.


Can’t help it but notice you keep pointing out “slow room temperature evaporation”. That’s actually not the case with my statements. Doing things cold is the main reason here.

pitubo wrote:
You have a point about the importance of choosing an optimal herb as a substrate for changa. Though I suspect that by boiling the herb in the solvent, much better diffusion is achieved than by slow room temperature evaporation. Still, if the final oven drying is as short as needed and the the temperature is not excessive, I believe that thermal degradation is not an issue and that the benefits outweigh the burdens.


Still, but it’s just me and a matter of personal conclusions, am under the impression that when on changa, dmt surface area increases greatly. That’s why i am concerned about heat assisted drying and/or a pre heated dish.

Physically, when the amount of solvent becomes minimal, if you pick up some herb pieces out of the blend, they will stick some. And not just a wee bit, it’s very sticky and smells just as intense of tryptamine as when you pick up a freebase crystal and melt it between your fingers. As stated before, depending on the plant material used for the infusion, on a closer inspection by eye you can clearly judge how much of the actives have been absorbed and how much haven’t, regardless of inducing a thorougher infusion by boiling off the solvent or not. This is the point of my concerns in regards to heat exposure, nothing else.

I must say that i completely understand where you’re coming from, what your intentions are and so on. I wouldn’t expect any answers coming from you to misguide. Am also noticing all the safety measures you outline and also your reasons for this post. This is all great. Never said it’s a wrong process. The only thing i’m trying to point out here is that people should be aware of the proprieties these alkaloids have and how they interact with different procedures, what are the +/- of every situation and how can the outcome be affected in case things go south.

My advice for the ones that are just starting to test the waters with such things is to learn as much as possible before attempting anything anyone says, and proceed with doing the work only after you are absolutely sure you know what you are doing, and you know that it is right, correct from different points of views (physical, chemical) and so on.

Imo there isn’t any one method better than others, or so i have found, and having more than one option to choose from is usually a good thing. Ime variations in options have always provided me with the opportunity to choose exactly what i was resonating with.
 
Nereus
#25 Posted : 3/3/2017 11:33:23 PM

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pitubo wrote:

BTW, if the the harmala freebase still has a lot of sodium carbonate impurities resulting from freebasing, the sodium carbonate will not dissolve in your ethanol. This could also be a cause of alkaloids seemingly not dissolving completely.


In this case filtering the harmala containing etoh is mandatory. A nice syringe body with stuffed cotton inside it should do the trick quite well.

But, keep that in mind for future use Rolling eyes
 
AlchemicalGnostic
#26 Posted : 3/6/2017 1:32:29 PM

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Thanks for the quality info! Very happy
"We are the gods of the atoms that make up ourselves but we are also the atoms of the gods that make up the universe." - Manly P. Hall
 
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