maybe SWIM should try a little bit of an maoi,or does that seem dangerous to SWIM?

SWIM did another test. He used the same 500 mg dose as before, but this time increase the calcium hydroxide (lime) dose from 10 mg to 50 mg. The increase in calcium hydroxide make the DMT (or DMT N-Oxide or whatever it it) more active. It was maybe 1.3x the potency of using 10 mg. At 50 mg, the calcium hydroxide caused minor lesions in the mouth. 10 mg wasn’t enough and 50 mg was too much.

This time the visual effects lasted longer and were stronger, and the bodily effects were diminished. It seems like the calcium hydroxide is critical here. Without it, bodily effects are pronounced, with it, psychedelic effects are pronounced. The strong melatonin like effect was greatly diminished by using the excess calcium hydroxide. The experience was much sharper, more pleasant. But the excess calcium hydroxide was irritating to the mouth.

I don’t see any danger in using it with the harmala MAOIs.

Natives use it with caapi sometimes, so that's a traditional method.

At the moment, SWIM wants to use it as is without any other alkaloids to see what potential it has on its own.

It’s quite effective as is, and even more sore with some calcium hydroxide to freebase it.

At some point SWIM will try it with THH or harmine. But he first wants to find out the proper dose to use orally and sublingually without the aid of any MAOI.

Supposedly, natives use it as is orally and its effective, according to what I’ve read. That’s fascinating to me because it’s supposed to contain basically just DMT with only traces of other alkaloids. It sounds like it shouldn’t be orally active. SWIM is going to try higher and higher doses both orally and sublingually until he finds the right dose. So far 500 mg has been the threshold visionary dose sublingually, but not orally. Orally, 500 mg is felt, but there’s no real visuals seen.

Is it possible to render the resin smokeable using either of those two bases?

Calcium hydroxide will work for sure, as long as water is added and it’s thoroughly mixed and then dried without heat.

SWIM has not tried smoking it YET, but will eventually get around to that. He first wants to master oral and sublingual use.

so is DMT N-Oxide effective w/o an maoi,or does SWIM think it's something else,or a mixture of alkaloids possibly virolas have a light maoi already in them like chaliponga?

So far 500 mg sublingually with 50 mg calcium hydroxide gave SWIM mild visual effects.

Up to 1000 mg orally as is gave SWIM no visual effects, just a melatonin like tryptamine bodily effect.

I'm starting to wonder if it is actually orally active or not on its own. Maybe the books I read were wrong? Maybe an MAOI is needed for oral activity? Or a much larger dose is needed?

It's possible DMT N-Oxide is orally active without MAOI. I don't know. The effects from sublingual resin use don't exactly feel like DMT.

The resin is active orally, but up to 1000 mg gave no visual effects. It feels like a light mushroom dose. There are definite effects orally, but no visuals at the doses SWIM tried except maybe extremely faint visuals which could be placebo.

So far only sublingual use at 500 mg gave obvious visual effects. But again, it didn't feel like DMT. It's very relaxed, smooth, more like DMT N-Oxide.

SWIM upped the dose sublingually last night trying 700 mg. He used 43 mg of calcium hydroxide (6% of 700 mg) to activate it. This proved to be just enough calcium hydroxide to activate the DMT. This amount of calcium hydroxide did not cause any lesions in the mouth. It was perfect.

This time, the effects were VERY MUCH LIKE DMT. Apparently at this dose the DMT becomes very distinct. There were mental psychedelic effects, mild visuals, and overall a very comfortable feeling to the trip. The body felt relaxed, at ease, slightly tingly and slightly numb. It was very pleasant.

This is the first real trip SWIM has had from this resin. Previous tests were just enough for some mild visuals, that’s it, but this time it was truly psychedelic.

SWIM likes this new found entheogen quite a bit. There seems to be lot of DMT N-Oxide present making the trip very enjoyable. SWIM cannot feel the presence of any 5-MeO-DMT in Virola calophylla resin.

Judging by the potency, I imagine that this resin is about 10% DMT. That’s quite potent.

SWIM has not yet tried smoking it or using it orally with an MAOI. SWIM is out of resin for a while, so those tests will have to wait.

SWIM is very satisfied with this resin. Like Virola theiodora resin, it’s active as is, but more so with calcium hydroxide. But unlike Virola theiodora resin, it seems to be a pure DMT experience. 700 mg of resin is very easy to use sublingually. It’s a tiny amount. With 42 mg of calcium hydroxide mixed in and ground to dust, it doesn’t burn at all.

Sublingual DMT burns like crazy, but this resin doesn’t burn at all, not even a tiny bit. I’m surprised that there is no burn. Does anyone know why there is no burn?

Has anyone else experimented with freebasing and smoking the resin? It should be very active at 200 mg that way. It should also be very active at 200 mg orally with an MAOI.

ok so this thread inspired swim to go collect some virola surinamensis resin again
its the only virola spp swim has access too - other than an unidentified virola
how should swim use it best - cap it and eat it with some base - sublingual - smoked ?
swim heard this resin is taken with ash as tablets ritually.

The ash is a source of calcium oxide which coverts to calcium hydroxide in the mouth. You can substitute calcium hydroxide for it. Use 6% by weight.

The tablet is NOT used orally, but used as a quid. Place it in the cheek and slowly suck on it so that no saliva build up occurs.

ok and on v.surinamensis - what is the main active component - swim heard they were orally active in swallowed tablet form, ron - do u have references of surinamensis being quidded as u stated as its the first time iv heard of this resin being quidded.
what dosage of resin should swim start with and should the nice red resin be ground to a powder first ?

I don't know about that virola specifically, but most references mistakenly call quidding "oral" usage. Pretty much all the vilora that is made into tablet form is used as a quid. The tablet in placed in the cheek and not swallowed. It sort of looks like they are using it orally because they are putting it in their mouth, but they are not swallowing it, they are in fact quidding it in most cases.

DMT is the main active alkaloid in Virola calophylla. It doesn’t make sense to use DMT orally without an MAOI. But it works as a quid when lime or some other source of calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide is added to it.

5-MeO-DMT, which is the active alkaloid in Virola theiodora, works orally without an MAOI, but it’s much more effective as a quid.

I just don’t see why anyone would want to use these resins orally unless added to ayahuasca because they are not going to work well orally. SWIM tried both Virola calophylla and Virola theiodora orally on their own. Virola theiodora works that way but its many times weaker, so it’s a waste to use it that way. Virola calophylla doesn’t produce psychedelic effects orally, just some bodily effects, that’s all.

If you notice, the recipes given for “oral” tablets in all the books always add ash or some other form of calcium oxide or calcium hydroxide to the resin. The reason those are added is for quidding, not for actual oral use, because calcium hydroxide and calcium oxide (which converts to calcium hydroxide in the mouth) make DMT and 5-MeO-DMT absorb better sublingually. If they were being swallowed, which I’m sure they are not, then there would be no reason to add ash or anything else containing calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide.



Start with 500 mg and move up from there. When using it as a quid add 6% calcium hydroxide (edible lime) or ash (containing calcium oxide) and grind it to a powder for best results.

hey 69ron,

my friend's got some resin on the way... could you just clarify - he's to mix it up with 6% ratio calcium Hydroxide, and keep it under the tongue... how long til it kicks in and how long does it last?

cheers.

I tried this last week.. was interesting. Started with about 500mg mixed with about 40mg calcium hydroxide. Ended up doing a total of nearly a gram. I added too much water though... it ended up like wet red soily stuff, next time I will use jsut enough water and compress into a tablet.. maybe wrap in a rizla or sthn. I wanted to go further so ended up smoking the spice aswell later on.. but before that, some mild visual effects and felt some nice body effects. nothing profound though! will be trying again soon..

You mix it with 6% calcium hydroxide by weight, so if using 1000 mg of resin, you'd use 60 mg of calcium hydroxide.

You can put it under your tongue, but that's kind of hard. Another method is to wet it slightly, roll it into a large long pill and place it in your cheek as a quid instead of under the tongue. That's how the natives use it actually.

The trip starts gradually after about 10 minutes or so and peaks after about 20-30 minutes. The experience lasts about 90 minutes. It's VERY PLEASANT.

Natives use several grams at a time. 1 gram it a nice experience, but not intense.

How would you describe the feeling of it? Would you say it was DMT-like or a little different?

SWIM finds it to be a very smooth experience, almost like a mix between DMT and psilocybe azurescens. SWIM often uses it with three Datura stramonium seeds and some strong coffee. Its more LSD-like that way.

I wish the price was a little lower. It's a beautiful experience, but if you really want to trip hard, you'll need to use several grams.

Has anyone tried it with rue, caapi, or THH?

yes very smooth. different to dmt, but similar. really relaxing body feelings. light visual effects.
for me there were similarities to caapi aswell, feelings of assurance, just subtle tho.
I need to try again with a higher dose to see next time.

this was with the virola calophylla. I also have theiodora, will be trying that soon also... would SWIM recommend using them both in the same way?

Yes. SWIM uses them both in the same way. Same preparation too.

can someone give my friend who is less experienced at sublingual use of powders an idea of how best to administer?

was mixed with calcium hydroxide. a few drops of water added and mixed. a bit too wet so left to dry in sun... but then crumbled too easily when trying to get it in the cheek. awkward to get in the mouth...

how do you eat yours?