why ask why? just be

What of there is no end to things. What if there is always something to learn. I think then we could have reached perfection, yet are then still progressing and learning new things and experiencing more. Although then there could also be more technical problems as we continue to progress.

Leaving us in a never ending quest to just continue endlessly.

^^such is life

I agree with others who say perfection is subjective, and the idea that anything in this universe can 'attain' or 'arrive' at a destination point (be that heaven, perfection, etc) has no grounds in what we can see or gain from experience in this universe. Everything always changes. Even the wasp you talk of will change, entropy is always at play.

I think we can't even imagine the type of society us humans may have if we make it across some of the current hurdles. Even if we outgrow the falsities of today, new falsities will arise. Such is life. It is full of infinite lessons. When you think you have 'arrived' at 'whole knowledge' or 'perfection' the universe will show you you are wrong

^^not EVERYTHING changes... throughout all change, something within you remains constant Figure out what that is, and you've solved a very essential piece of the puzzle

perfection is an idea of the mind that posits and harmony i feel is a state of the mind that negates.

i think my sig might be relevant here too "Personally, to the speaker, there is no psychological evolution: there is only the ending of sorrow, of pain, anxiety, loneliness, despair and all that."

thats negation. perhaps relevance of life only then begins? can we project from a state of conflict what we think that state might be like? can a mind in conflict have an idea of what no conflct is like? there maybe physical evolution but the idea we improve, evolve psychologically surely prevents being. the notion of becoming is action postponed. can you admit timne psychologically? that gioves you a way out of action. its the I convincing you of its need for continuation masked as "progress". endless mischief. to accept a futuire psaychologically is to deny the present. is there improving or just the ending of conflict?

better, i think, to say a world of no psychological conflict rather than speaking of perfection or harmony, cos that leaves the door open to the limitless because its not been quantifieds by the I.

also i like the quote "truth has in itself the quality of its own protection" as regards tyrant attack.

as well as this i feel that certain technologies can only be realised by a mind that is free of conflict, which gives them a huge advantage over an attacking tyrant, even if he has somehow realised interstellar travel. i think the true word or the appearance of an harmonic species cannot be denied, and would even desired, by the tyrant, cos its fun. is there absolute evil? would every being in that race be evil? surely theyd have destroyed themselves...so some/many would be open to the truth. also living daily with that infinite intelligence in ones life, as that is what is being suggested; surely it would do the right thing when attacked? else it would be dumb and not "that". how could such an existence be a doormat for a tyrant?

i think you then become a co-creator and until then its just a pointless egotistical self gratification.

bit foggy headed this morn

Then the imperfect world would suffer even greater imperfection. So please do visit the perfect world but I pray on behalf of the imperfect worlds that you do return.

if i may i think theres some confusiion between the physical and the mental. yin and yang, acid, alkaline; is intrinsic to the physical plane.

as for good and bad in unity, in the mental plane, i don't think thats possible. by good i mean without psychological conflict and bad as having inner turmoil; --"all worldlings are mad" - buddha, supposedly. language is dualistic in nature...good, evil; joy, turmoil; but are these things dualistic in actuality? is love the opposite of hate? don't opposites contain what they're opposing? so if they do how could it be love if it also contains hate? perhaps love has no opposites. so mentally i agree with the above, no yin yang or dualism in consciousness. language inadvertently tricks us.

nature is dualistic, as is mans physical body but mind is non dualistic, imo. you have inner conflict or don't, no inbetweens or a bit of each.

The part about yin and yang being on the physical plane is not entirely true; maybe certain aspects of it are expressed in the physical plane, but when I say yin and yang together I mean it as an expression of opposites, like the tao symbol represents. In essence, I think it symbolically represents the unity and inter-relation of ALL opposites in one clear symbol (so, cold hot, black white, plus minus, etc ad infinitum)

As for the acid/alkaline bit, those are physical expressions, and they are opposing and complementing, but they also have a conscious aspect to them too (the essence of the function of each; that idea can be extrapolated and applied to other things) same as man/woman or male female; sure, physical expressions, but as consciousness (or, as conscious expressions) are not purely restricted to the physical plane

At least that was my take on it

so matter is conscious? if thats what you're saying then i think its right. i can appreciate that a piece of matter has an expression as yin or yang or somewhere between, but it's awareness, if it has one, cannot have an opposite as i see it, but i could be wrong. if we're in the same ball park?

stessfuill day and thankfully medicinal mj night saturdays so bongs away! peace be with you man

Don Carlos-- Gimme gimme your love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLaPL33glOQ

Yes and no, matter itself is not conscious in the sense of posessing it's own intrinsic conscious awareness. But, the expression of matter, has an impact on consciousness.

Think of it like this, acid itself does not have any self-directed consciousness, it's static. But, with our own conscious approach to it, we can extract conscious truths from the nature of the thing itself, which is non-physical. What are the qualities of generic acid? it's corrosive, acidic, it's destructive in a way (application-dependent) those are conscious qualities of the physical expression. That same conscious expression, can be applied to different understandings of life... now let's extrapolate the same understanding of the nature of acid, and apply it to the nature of the expression of pure anger.... there's some very clear similarities, but the application of one is on the physical plane (acid) and the application of the other is on the emotional plane (anger)... but their functions are similar. So, you can consciously extract the quality of a thing from matter, and it enriches your understanding and relation to things in varying dimensions of life.


So, in the same way, acid and base are two opposing properties, one negates the other, and one complements the other... they have physical expressions, but their essential nature can be extrapolated to the understanding of applications in other aspects of life not constricted to the physical plane.

This is how I understand the nature of yin and yang... you can find certain expressions of it on just about every plane of existence. And on the plane of the godhead, or the ultimate plane, everything is just one singular unity expressing itself in various forms on all of the other multidimensional planes of life.

I hope that made sense and was more clear. Enjoy your flowers brother

I always thought yin and yang was like day and night or north and south. Polar opposites that are needed to create a unified whole. I do not think they are just good and bad. It's a bit deeper than that and they need each other for either one to truly exist.

Think about this perfect world idea.

For me it's perfect as I have just eaten. But for the animal I have just eaten it is less than ideal. Yin and yang allows for this as the action of me eating is both positive and negative good and bad it just depends on your perspective.

The yin and yang together is the balance between these forces and that balance is what keeps everything flowing smoothly and allows for life to flourish.

^^Also true... Tao truly is an all-inclusive perspective

It's like talking about the same elephant from infinite perspectives