I think the waking/sleeping analogy is just that an analogy. It's a way to give people some insite into what it might be. For me I think in terms of becoming lucid in the dream of life, but who knows...

As for that point at which I can be confident I am no longer asleep?
Well since I can pretty easily tell that I am indeed still asleep based on the concept of being awake as freedom from the ego.. Thus I would conclude that if I do indeed wake up to being free from the ego I'd also be able to identify it as being awake.

Also I like the eternal movement towards the truth, but I'm not so sure abou the approached but never reached...only because those that have laid down a path have all talked about an actual end state...though I for certain have not reached said state. We could speculate that they only reached a higher level...with many above them that they were as of then unaware. Could very well be.

Of course in the end I am not enlightened and thus don't really have any idea what it's ultimately like. It could in fact be just as you speculate that it's just a path and not a destination. I suspect there is some truth that, but only because it takes a self to walk a path and to reach a destination, but when the destination is the removal of self it kinda seems pointless to talk about a destination.




Peace

I, for one, would really like to read an experience report about this experience Gib, as i've always liked your writings.

And to the OP,

I don't think there's a "next" level per say, as whatever level or state one attempts to achieve has always been there and just needs uncovered. Unknowinly walking over buried treasure day n' and day out. I think 'going to the next level' is a linear concept that, imo, doesn't hold any weight in the face of the ineffable.

tat

Oh come on tell use more !

This is why we are here on this forum, to learn from everyone's experiences!

I agree that there is always a "next level" even when just using DMT. On the other hand, even though DMT can can show you an infinite number of things, there seems to be something similar in how I experience those things. In other words, I have found every DMT trip to be vastly different, and yet there is something about the way I experience these different scenarios that seems to be exactly the same every time. Perhaps it is mindset or mood, but I think that it has to do with perception and the senses with which we can perceive. As much as I have experienced with and between my 5 senses while on DMT, I think there may be other senses or modes of experience that I have not yet experienced and thus cannot begin to comprehend. It is possible, at least.

For example, there are many things I have experienced on DMT, but I have never experienced an acid trip on DMT. The DMT experience is so full and so infinite that it is easy to forget that there are still experiences that are exclusive with the DMT experience. There are still other ways to realize infinity. There are also higher orders of infinity. How many higher orders are there? Perhaps there is an infinity on an order that makes the DMT experience look finite by comparison. That is all I'm trying to say.

At the same time, how do you really compare? As it is, the DMT experience is too incredible to remember fully, much less juxtapose and compare with other varieties of psychedelic experience. I guess it is silly to say that one variety of psychedelic experience is greater or higher than another, since it seems fundamentally impossible to compare experiences that are so inconceivable in the first place.

Almost from the beginning I’ve experienced the DMT realm with “new” senses. It’s quite evident when this happens during an experience: I’m perceiving something, and aware that this mode of perception is not a part of everyday experience, and as soon as that awareness becomes evident, I usually think to myself “take it in while you can, because you won’t be bringing this back with you”.

I agree that the DMT realm is usually consistent in the sense that most experiences have a DMT “feel” to them. But occasionally I have experiences that are so different it’s easy to become convinced that what I’m experiencing is not a result of DMT. (Once I thought I died – the main reason I thought this was because the experience was totally unlike any other DMT experience I ever had.)

Anyhow, getting to the original question of the thread, I’d have to say that I don’t really understand the question.

I’d love to share the details, but the details are lost – left behind. Here’s what I can tell you:

I started the evening with about 20mg sublingual caapi alkaloids, and followed it maybe 20 minutes later with about 25mg DMT in the GVG. I learned after the fact that I didn’t vaporize it all, so the experience was a bit lackluster, but unusually long-lasting – I was still having minor effects 40 minutes later.

At that point, I decided to follow up with another 25mg. A perfect hit followed by the most rapid ramping-up of intensity I’ve ever felt. It was worrisome, so much so that I opened my eyes in an effort to attenuate the effects (something I’ve never done before).

I can’t say what happened next. I went somewhere. I was shattered in some way. My sense of self remained, yet my mind was obliterated. Impossible to describe. The experience of obliteration was frozen in time – outside of time. An eternal instant.

Something happened to me, with me. (Was done to me?) Others were involved. (Who?) The experience was unlike any other. It’s hard to talk about because it was so different – no reference points. Nothing to compare it to, either in my everyday life or prior DMT experiences. I saw something sacred, but I don’t know what it was. None of this was frightening, but the “mind shattering” aspect was disturbing.

As I started to return, there were 2 thoughts:

There is no doubt that there are realms beyond our everyday reality. Not that I needed more convincing, but the thought that this experience was solely created by a drug’s action on my brain is laughable.

Before the experience had faded, I kept thinking to myself “I didn’t think it was possible.”

DMT has surprised me once again.

Right now I feel like I’ve crossed a threshold.

Wonderful, absolutely wonderful

Great report Gibran

Much love,
Tat Tvam Asi

This is my first post but it seems apt after reading this.

What I experienced was SO similar to this description and general feeling. I'm going to do a separate post of my entire experience real soon but this just seemed a perfect time to say that you've captured the feeling entirely. Good stuff

Oh well I had a trip similar to that as well LOL, maybe the one I described wasn't similar I mostly meant just the general idea of having such a mind fucking intense trip that I was etching it into my brain over an over. Trust me I was glad to be back with my g/f as well as part of the trip involved her getting older and older and older as I grew from infancy (literally was trying to wipe placenta off myself) after coming out of a womb. Things like that I literally was reborn into a new universe parallel to this, like any DMT trip no words can really describe but it wasn't the typical blast off.

Are any blast-offs typical? I think we try to use 'typical language' to describe the indescribable but I would argue no two people experience the same event since DMT trips tend to be highly personal in nature.

Is a particular experience necessarily different from others (ie atypical/abnormal) just because we cannot describe it? If there are parts of the DMT experience that are indescribable, then how do we know that they are NOT exactly the same every time? How do we know that the indescribable parts are personal at all? Since we cannot communicate them to each other, they could just as well be exactly the same. Perhaps it is like anti-deja vu: Experiencing the same thing multiple times but with the sensation that it is something new every time.

I guess there is a difference between indescribable and unrememberable. Then the above questions apply to the unrememberable aspects of the DMT experience, which are also many.

A particular experience isn't necessarily different from others on the sole basis that it can't be described. Just because I lack the descriptive words to impart certain aspects of the experience to others, doesn't mean that I can't distinguish between experiences I've had as being distinct in major ways from others. Lots of experiences can follow certain patterns, abide by certain aesthetics, etc...but it is obvious as daylight when an atypical/abnormal experience shows up that completely doesn't fit into the DMT paradigm that one establishes for oneself regardless of whether or not I can successfully get anyone else to understand what I mean.

I got a chill when I read this^^^^ DMT, Divine Moments of truth to die or to diemythyltryptimine