D-empty, thats exactly the purpose of the salt.

I have to correct myself here, proteases are themselves proteins so at extreme ph's and temperatures they will unfold, break apart and become completely useless. Proteases could work if added to a mixture at the optimum pH levels and temperature for those proteases which are the conditions of your stomach, so the pH levels should be really low and the temp around 37C.

My most recent pull seemed so saturated w/ DMT I can't really imagine doing much better but I heated both layers together so I have this thought:

If the solubility of DMT increases more rapidly with temperature in naphtha than in the polar solution I feel like heating them both to a very high temperature could be as effective because it will allow for extra mixing at that temperature and lead to more DMT moving over. If the naphtha is cooling before it can contact a reasonable amount of the polar solvent that could make it ineffective, no?

I might experiment with heating up just the naphtha on later pulls when heating both yields insignificant amounts. I'd also think it'd be good to use a relative abundance of naphtha to help with mixing and heat, yeah?

Details of the pull if interested:
I salted my solution for the first time this last batch (about 85g in a 1250ml w/ about 135g of lye, there seem to be a few undissolved salt crystals) and after I did two 5-10 minute baths in recently boiling water and shook the jar 8 times, I had a very cloudy naphtha layer, cloudy to the point that my first thought was that something had gone wrong. I insulated the jar in a cooler and let things fully separate for 2 hours. It was still very cloudy and when decanting my pipette would partially clog due to crystals forming in the tip. Had a huge yield of crystals crash out at room temperature. Waiting on the results of the freeze precip, but so far I see very few crystals and wonder if by chance I got an extremely good separation of DMT crystals and NMT goo with this pull. It'd be awesome to get something that was NMT heavy enough that the dominate experience from it was that of NMT.

Thank you for sharing this, ChemisTryptaMan!

Great information.

So much helpful and interesting information

Im very greatful for you sharing your knowledge on this subject

Keep it coming!

Thanks a billion

To raise the ionic strength of the acidic mixture to it's best potential should we not use phosphoric acid instead of vinegar then?

Should we add salt to the mixture before or after adding the NaOH ? Edit: I saw your answer to the question. Salt before lye.. although, I am not sure what you meant when saying "has long has it's before the MHRB".

Thank you for your help

I think he meant "as long as it's before the solvent"...

Also, the acid that is used also determines which molecule is formed: acetic (vinegar) makes dmt-acetate, fumaric makes fumarate etc... Factors to take into account here are the stability of the "new" molecule and some of its other properties (solubility) in order for it to be interesting to work with in an extraction...

I have no clue in this regard as far as dmt-phosphate is concerned...

PLUR

Ps Please correct me if I'm wrong

Ok, that makes more sense..

Well I first got the idea of using phosphoric acid from this tek : http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/33549587

It mentions the bonds beings stronger.. Which would be logical considering the charge is hier than what we would obtain from vinegar. Although, I'm wondering how this affects the quantity one would get out of said plant..

Would it cause more dmt to precipitate into the freebase form after adding lye? I'd like to know and understand the cause to effect...

Edit : info about acids to use it at page 7

Thanks for your help

I have only a very limited understanding of chemistry, but if the phosphate forms stronger bonds, there would be no gain because you will have to break up these bonds anyway to "release" the freebase molecule when the base is added...

Also, looking into any possible "contra-indications" could be very useful, you never know if phosphoric acid and sodium hydroxide create, for instance, an emulsion (or worse)...

As soon as the base is added in sufficient amounts, the molecule will be freebased and the acid will turn into a salt (if I remember correctly) and the only use for that salt, if any, is not to interfere with the extraction process or create unwanted side-reactions or something...

If you're lucky someone more chem-savvy will chime in

So far for my 2 cents...

PLUR

Ps: Solubility is also a huge factor here, for example you don't want the salt being formed after the base is added to be soluble in your non polar solvent or it will end up in your yield...

My first thoughts here: phosphates are used for making pH buffer solutions. Whether this is of any consequence, I can't say!

phosphoric being polyprotic, multiple pKa's... probably results in a funky hygroscopic mess.

Yeah, I looked up for contra-indication and safety in regards to the chemical.. Seems safe..

Dmt-phosphate is a salt I believe btw.. Acid + alkaloid -> salt

After adding lye is the freebase form..

Thanks for helping... I'll try to see if I can get more detail on why dmt phosphate would be better according to the tek and post results here..

Interresting... That could be usefull tough.. Has long as the ph gets high enough...

Ok ! So as far has my research goes dmt-phosphate seems to be more stable than dmt-acetate. I.e when doing ze acid cook dmt-phosphate has less chance of going back into the freebase form and then being broken down than dmt-acetate if the solution is boiling at a high temperature.. Thats only my conclusion base on the premise that dmt-phosphate forms stronger bonds => dmt-phosphate is more stable => dmt-phosphate more heat resistant => we can do acid cook at hier temperatures => being able to cook at hier temperatures is a plus.

So it would seem phosphoric acid has this advantage over vinegar...

I would appreciate if a chemist could confirm this..

This is great info, very cocomprehensive information to begin with for the layman, thanks op!

My buddy will be using cybs tek when he runs into more materials. Right now he has 300g of acrb sitting for days in a similiar amount of calcium hydroxide. This was acidified first of course. Would adding some salt help the process at all before doing the pulls? Ive seen people say salt wont help with this kind of tek but i dont see how it wouldnt and it wont hurt right?

Wishing there was material to try cybs tej right now. Actually have some leftover acidified bark leftover that wouldnt fit in the jar for this dry tek hes doing. Dont know the weight on it though . Might try out cybs tek on it anyway just to see what happens..

Once again, great post man!

when swim was in other country allways used phosphoric acid, with no problem at all, and good yelds of pure white xtals

Sorry for resurrecting this thread but i have a question about this subject, specifically talkin bout Ionic Strength.

Some time ago I did a few acid/base extractions of other alkaloids, using diethyl-ether as the solvent, unfortunately they didn't work out really well.

ChemisTryptaMan, I read what you said about miscibility, about having some naphta in the water and some water in the naphta and how you can fix this problem by adding salt to the water to increase Ionic Strength.

I now suspect my previous a/b extractions didn't work because of some ether dissolving into the water.
Diethyl-ether is a prevalently non-polar solvent, however it has two free electron pairs on the oxygen so it can form hydrogen bonds with a protic polar solvent(like water) making it at least a little miscible with the water.

If some ether dissolves in the water it could prevent the alkaloid to go in the nonpolar layer, I guess...

So here the question: Could I add salt to the water and increase ionic strength to prevent the ether dissolving in the water and fuck up my extraction? Should I rather just change solvent because ether is not good enough for a/b DMT extraction?

Any insight is appreciated,

Thank You!!!

Adding salt will help. You don't really want too much ether dissolving in the water. It's not about the ether dissolving in the water.
I'd save the ether for huffing. But that's just me being degenerate. We don't hear much about ether extractions round here so it might be interesting. Just so long as you stay safe.

We don't hear about ether (diethyl? ) extractions here because it's not safe in a home extraction setting. Ether can have a real nasty temperment.

Thanks CMT, I think you just raised the bar a bit