caustic means ph is higher than neutral 7. Like caustic soda ( when u stb u make it caustic untill ph is 12 ).
HCL is a strong acid. A few drops in a bottle of water will lower the ph to 2 or 3.
It can even go to 1 i think.
So its the total opposite of being caustic.

I agree with OP as to liking IV as ROA. I feel (personally) that I can self administer much MORE controlled dosing with IV or IM and the results are easier for me to deal with. Actually I prefer IM, which is wierd. The problems are purity. Buuuut, if you have the purity thing locked down, IM is an awesome ROA. The come-up is easier than smoking. I can inject, get into an asana, breathe and wait. It slowly comes up kinda like a roller coaster instead of a rocket.

I would never recommend it to someone as a method unless they had first expressed up a desire to do so, just out of the obvious concerns, regarding health consequences and such. I had plenty of experience with needles at the time of my experimentation, not that that is a good thing, neccessarily. I had a slight expectation borne from experience, and that was shattered by the experience, in fact thought I had poisoned myself with some other substance and was in the process of death. ( What I had been told was DMT was actually 5-meo-DMT, and I was a little surprised, to say the least.)

I meant in terms of its effects on the body. Perhaps toxicity would have been a better choice of term. And if that doesn't work. "Bad"

I agree with just about every opinion stated. I like the ritual or right of passage aspect of smoalking freebase from my GVG, but being able to simply inject my exact preferred dose is a far more reliable way of ensuring you get just the right sort of experience.

SWIM is very interested in this ROA... she's a dr. who also loves IM'ing ketamine and has been playing with needles in that respect for about 4 years now.

one of the concerns with injecting, especially crude home-extracted drugs is purity.

2 of the main complications of injecting are:
1) abcesses... ie bacteria in the solution or dirty equipment (usually the former)
2) blood clots / embolism -> heart attach / stroke, in the long term that is. from insoluble particles that ur blood cells aggregate to.

swim very much recommends sucking any injectable liquids thru a microfilter.... the smaller the better... swim swears by 0.2um cellulose (= hydrophilic), which filter out all bacteria and particles pretty much. they're usually used for sterilising heat-sensitive antibiotics, and they look a little bit like this. available on ebay...

so yeah, swim sees IV/IM as most effective ROA... but it's not something for everyone!

also, just a thought: havent made DMT salt yet, but swim wonder's what pH is comes out at... fyi pH of blood is 7.4

Stay safe peoples :-)

great info gimpy! thanks for helping keep it safe. i use to mainline heroin and would use anything for water(even toilet and creek), just cooked down what was on the street and simply shot it into my arm vein without a tie. i did get pain and some pretty bad swelling.. so glad that was over 16 years ago and i don't gamble with my life like that anymore. it would be really great to clean up some spice and filter like you demonstrated..... very interesting.

Thanks for this. I also used IV for a looooong time, in a manner similar to the poster above-that is like a pseudo-suicidal addict. Ive never seen these things, but heard of them, but only online in forums from posters acroos the Atlantic from me, Im in the US and noone uses these that I know of. I see they are available on E-bay, but I tend to shy away from ordering supplies of the wen for personal reasons having to do with security, do you know if they are available at a pharmacy, I see they are labled lab use only. Does that mean they are NOT accesable to the ono-professional?

Oh, by the way, Im happy to say that discovering DMT, extracting and using the molecule, has been a part of the spiritual awakening that has helped return (or establish) the sense of gratitude in life that I had lost through my heroin addiction. The irony of finding this using the same tool, a needle, that enslaved me for so long.

heh, ironically they were posted to me (here in europe) from the states, even tho they're made in germany... bit of a round the world trip, eh?

regarding the security aspect of ordering these supplies online (microfilters, or even clean syringes) - there's nothing illegal about them so not worth losing too much sleep over imo. better to make sure you have clean equipment? it's ur health afterall...

Hmmm that is mighty odd. I have the fortunate experience of having the aqquintance of quite a few IV drug users in my sordid profligate life, and noone has ever even heard of these things. Ill have to do a lil more research, although I use needles maybe a couple times a year now- no more strung out little ol me-too old for that crap.
S do you have to have the type of syringe that has the screw-on point, so as to be between the needle and fluid chamber-that seems like it could clog the needle easily w/o using cooton in the spoon, or whatever-YKWIM.
Noone has brought this up- actually I think IV/IM as ROA can be healthiER if done right. My lungs are f-ed and smoking freebase is hard for me-to get a big enough hit, let alone several and hold it in is very hard sometimes.

I think, in the case of street drugs, people sometimes have a tendency to cut them with allsorts of insoluable nasties or products that may dissolve at higher temperatures and then solidify once the liquid cools down again and so blocking (especially with the microfine 1ml syringes that are given away at drop-in centres). If you were injecting something that you had extracted and purified yourself it would be less likely. Still wouldnt hurt to have a double filter setup, even on the larger bore needles.
There is a lot of stigma with administering IV due to it"s association with dirty, hard drugs and certain lifestyles but i tend to agree with you that it could be a healthy ROA if done properly. Syringes not only administer hard drugs but also medication.
However there are so many variables to take into hyperspace with you-- sterility, purity, PH value and where your head is at due to concerns if you have little experience at injecting.
I am not sure if i have the bottle but if i was to try it i think i would go IM in my backside.

I couldn't ever inject myself with something I feel :S And freebase? Damn you got balls injecting freebase... I think that shit would tear you up.

Freebases are insoluble in water,a salt, like afumarate or an hcl is what is injected.

When I did it, it was actually 5meo, not n,n dmt, which I didn't knew until long after the fact. I had a pair I didn't know about, apparently.

It was, and is still, the most intense experience of my life. I IV'd and IM'D the stuff while I had access to it, and the funny thing is, the IM would come on faster! Wtf? Once, I was feeling it HARD before the plunger was all the way down, and I flung the syringe across the room, afraid I'd rill over it while out of body! The OV shots coyote take up to 30 seconds to come on.

This is funny, I've been reading this thread, not realizing it was resurrected from ancient times, and almost answered my own post. Lol.

I was also reading through this old thread, since it was on the active topics list, and I was kind of surprised that nobody mentioned this...


Caustic [kaw-stik]
adjective
1. Capable of burning, corroding, or destroying living tissue

Sodium hydroxide is caustic. Hydrochloric acid is also caustic.

That is understood. I'm truly not defending or proselytizing this row, but it does exist as an option for some.

Any drug that injected is a salt of the given molecule right? I didn't do a PH test in the substance I had and yes was very reckless. To be honest, back in my heroin days, I had injected something that was too hot, not sure, but I think it on the caustic side, and suffered permanent damage to my entire circulatory system. Now when I go to hospital and need an iv, they put a pick line directly into my heart through an incision made beneath my clavicle. So yeah, you should know what you are using.

Does anyone know what the ph of afumarate would be? I could look it up, but I'm still waking up and am frankly lazy this morning.

I'm very sorry to hear about your circulatory problems. But we all have to pay for our vices, and I am glad that you made it out paying a price far less severe than the one many of our fellow dopefiends end up paying.

As far as I know, the freebase form of most compounds is typically not water soluble. A water soluble salt would absolutely be the way to go for IV/IM.

Your best bet to determine pH would probably be to convert a small amount of spice to fumarate, then dissolve it in some sterilized water to the same dilution that you would for injection and test the pH.

Ive read that DMT was normally injected back in the 1960s by [ the few that used it]
untill DMT poineer ..[Nick Sands] was the first to discover that DMT could be smoked!

Ive read that DMT was normally injected back in the 1960s by [ the few that used it]
untill DMT poineer ..[Nick Sands] was the first to discover that DMT could be smoked!
[/quote]

Injecting freebase = verrry silly idea imo

Funny fact about it being ijected mostly back in the day. Although i wonder if in those days it would mostly come from lab synthesis rather than bark extraction

Big up Nick Sands either way :-)

A friend of mine did a few n,n DMT IV. Then he switched to smoke/vape in order to share it with friends, he then told me that he found a good vape of n,n-DMT FB was rather equal in effects and intensity as a IV DMT fumarate. SO I thought maybe you can find a few difference, but a good breakthrough on glass bong/GVG or else should be sufficient instead of playing with needles.
While I found very interesting to hear and play with different ROA I don't feel IV is the holy grail regarding DMT.
For Strassman's study it's understanding as they do it in a research context and this way there shouldn't be any hit or miss like there would be if the guinea pigs were vaping it.

I remember reading that the Strassman (Hes the spirit molecule guy right?) trial required purer than lab grade to use on human test subjects for permission. He had a hard time finding someone to specially make it for him, or at least getting permission for someone to make it specially.

Id be interested in trying IM myself (slower and longer). I havnt and likely wont IV anything. Not looking down on anyone but I have a brother who is an IV user and frankly it scares me.

Just thought i'd tune in and say hello, after being out of this forum for the last 2 years or so.

just wondering if anyone else out there goes for the IV/IM route?

It's something i'm working towards, but only once I've made the purest stuff I'm capable of. Then I'll make some salt and test out the e-cig method. And then... we'll see

Sad to see this ROA slated so hard by the forum, although I do understand. It's risky if you don't know what you're doing. But still, I like to think this is the sort of place which can see beyond stigma...