^^I take issue with this; diagnoses are made on the basis of BOTH the symptoms (gleaned from the history) and the signs (picked up on examination).

I agree there are discrepancies I the arguments on both sides many time. They are all changing te definitions of the words in order to try and make there points. There's a lot of back and forth going on about semantics and understandings of explanations. But that's to e expected when people are trying to convey the message.

I admit that isn't the best I can come up with. Work became very busy so I haven't had much time to research more and post.

It's kind of surprising that they would medicate people for depression. If someone kept having toothaches from cavities you fix the problem rather than prescribe lifetime pain meds. Beings that depression is a psychological problem rather than a chemical problem it shouldnt be treated in this way at all. Yes there are changes in the amount of chemicals in your body due to the distress, but especially since so little is known about what all is affected chemically it shouldn't be treated in this way.

I can't imagine what would happened if we figured out the complete chemical composition of depression. Then made a pill that reversed it. Your dad beats you but your ok with it? Would it be the same as dealing with it emotionally?

^^I think that this oversimplifies things.Theres numerous ways in which depression has been classified (endogeneous vs reactive, primary vs secondary etc) and certainly with some of the secondary causes (for example hypothyroidism, any of the causes of hypercalcemia, iatrogenic) there is undoubtedly a 'chemical' mechanism underlying it.

So there ARE physical abnormalities than can cause depression?

Yes.

this, this, this!!!!!

I'm so with the above because when i look back in my life to when i was depressed, it was because of outside factors. Sure, they may lead to brain imbalances, but nevertheless the CAUSE was an outside event that caused an inner hurt that started it all off.

It could be something like a close friend having more work and relationship sucess than you, it could be not measuring up to what the media says is normal, it could be anything like that. Just count your own blessings and take it from me, that a simple life with least of posessions and cares is the happiest. Find peace in the simple things in life like nature, family, friends, partner, and your dreams and hopes.

What seperates those that get depressed from those that don't, is "getting on with it", and stubbing it out as soon as it's noticed.

I'm sure chemical imbalances can be found, but these are symptoms, but not the cure. The cure IMO is to understand the causes and have the guts to admit this to a delicate ego. Pills aren't really the answer if you wanna get to grips with mastering life which includes facing and defeating depression-which is always around the corner to challenge anyone wanting to grow in life.

What is the procedure to deal with it? Anti depressants or deal with the actual cause?

I can understand this situation. Would he much like taking a medication for ED and having it cause depression as a side effect. I guess I did know this, as fibromyalgia has been thought to cause depression as well.

I think you have that backwards, most of the professional medical community I know believes fibromyalgia is a non-existent disease but just a manifestation of depression. Of course they would never tell anyone who thinks they have fibromyalgia this, or chronic fatigue syndrome.

Citta is spot-on when he says 'yes'; heres a link which has a pretty comprehensive table of the medical ailments which can cause psychiatric symptoms, including those of depression (Table 1):

http://emedicine.medscap.../article/294131-overview


Treatment of the underlying cause is the best way to manage these, assuming treatment is possible.

I hope that when you are at your lowest moment in life someone stops and reaches a hand down to help you up instead of 'dishing' it out to you for being such a pansy.

Peace

The thinking on fibromyalgia is changing, albeit slowly.Theres a number of theories put forward including a dysfunction of the ascending nocioceptive tracts in the spinal cord and brainstem, channelopathies, disorders of the Krebs Cycle etc.Abnormalities in the levels of certain cytokines have been found but as yet, the exact mechanism is far from clear.Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome management is progressing and my gut feeling is that it/they do exist as clinical entities.

Its also a field where the modern-day snake-oil sellers are thriving, in part because conventional medicines ability to deal with it is lacking.

MMMM.... I think one of the best things someone depressed could do, is to switch off their computer, and go outside. That is the real world you have to find a way of mastering. The internet is mostly hot air, opinions, and god knows what. Wether you think it works for you or not, the REAL WORLD is what you need to get to grips with. Find a nice way of living, cos you are after all divinity embodied.

When you're depressed it's probably because you're living against the natural flow of life which is effortless and mostly laid out. All you have to do is say YES!

So you don't think it was actually your response to the outside event that was responsible and not the vent itself?

take 10 people in put then in really stressful situations. Some become depressed, some don't. All experience the same event, but only some are depressed.

Look. point blank. Depression can arise from chemical imbalance. Want to prove it to your self? For the next 3 day's drink to the point of being stumbling drunk. Then go cold turkey. By day three you will be depressed. Don't like that experiment? Go take MDMA for three day's in a row. Take two tabs each day... Then go cold turkey.

Drink coffee everyday? Quit. Notice that lethargy? That's a brain chemical imbalance? Notice that headache? Same thing.

Come one people. We know a LOT about brain chemistry these day's, and yes we have a lot more to learn, but to say depression isn't caused by a chemical imbalance is simple wrong.

Also one last point. A little humility and empathy goes a long way because not a single one of us has ANY clue what is going on in the mind of another. You may not suffere depression and think it's all BS, but to those suffering it's very real. Show some empathy.

Peace

Yea, of course, that is OBVIOUS!

Sorry but i forgot to mention everything about depression because i didn't wanna regurgitate book after book.

I meant in the case of a healthy individual, rather than someone living a life of excess.

...BUT. Someone who watches their diet, what they drink, the company they keep, the way they view things is less likely to get depressed. You are right that it's about perception. We all have different ideas about what is stressful to us, but that is another long topic.

Good point Christian- the next time I see someone who is depressed and has an 'incidental' meningioma compressing their frontal lobes, I will advise against neurosurgery and tell them to just yell 'Yes' (ignoring their dysphasia) and explain to them they need to stop living against the flow of natural life.


And while Im at it, I will tell them that their failing vision is not important, as long as their 3rd eye allows them to really 'see', and that their hemiparesis is because their chakras are not alligned rather than having anything to do with the tumour in their skull.

If you can't understand what stresses another man then you can't comment on his depression.

Peace

NOBODY CAN, He must do this himself, he has to help himself walk the lonely path.

Look, Joe. I strongly reccomend someone who is depressed to check out websites that are specific to Depression and Stress. This is not the place to be for this information, too many untrained people with their own views, too much arguing, no real clarity, just a mash up of ideas. Depression is too serious a condition for this site.

All i can do is advise, and that is the best advice i can give!

I don´t think that anybody would deny that antidepressants are being pushed too much by pharmaceutical companies.

That doesn´t mean that some people don´t realy need those med´s and that those med´s realy have SAVED LIVES.

It´s totally clear btw, that med´s are most effective when combined with some form of therapy. This is a well established fact.

I think it´s saddening to see that an ever increasing number of people is suffering from adepressive disorders. Why would that be?

My guess is that it has to do with the fact that more people live in city´s these days, then ever before in history. I think city´s are relatively speaking, lonely places. people move to the city to escape the boredom of their village, drawn like moths by the big city lights. They leave their old environment, their family and friends to enter a new exciting world of shiny rolexes and ferrari´s, only to find themselves working hard in a concrete desert where nobody knows them.

That would be my explanation.

That doesn´t make all medication worthless. If you´re so fucked-up that your brain isn´t able to respond anymore, to all of the things that would normally help, and THAT is basically what a serious depressive disorder is, then anything that can get you´re brain back on track, needs to be taken into consideration. Some people need electroshocks even. Only when the most serious chemical imbalance is fixed, you´re receptive enough to respond to all of the wise advice like going oustide, visit friends, talk to people, etc.

IMO that´s where antidepressants are for. They´re that first step to get your brain running properly again. The next step is to do all of those other things mentioned. Thinking positively also affects your brains chemistry. Bt you need to be able to take that step..hence the med´s.

No-one would say that these are nice things. They´re serious medicines with serious side-effects.

btw..i think that most of the negative stories about med´s are because they´re not described or taken properly. Most antidepressants take some time to work. During that critical period, where the side-effects are most severe, while the healing effects have not kicked in yet, people need to be monitored AND they need to be properly informed about the time it takes for the med´s to work, the side-effects, etc. I believe that this is where doctors (and maybe even psychiatrists) often fail. Especially teenagers do not have that 'skill' of patience yet...patience is a skill, linked to certain area´s in the brain that have not fully develloped yet in early adolescence. That makes teenagers extra vulnerable. They need extra attention.