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Well-traveled non-believer and skeptic Options
 
DMT Psychonaut
#21 Posted : 7/9/2011 8:44:02 AM

Witness to Humanity


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Amanita Claus wrote:


Scientic tradition is a product of Western thinking (to believe otherwise is to reveal a bias born of loyalty to the school of science (an egoic bias, no offense implied)), whereas other cultures have made greater strides in other areas out of an honoring of the subjective realms, the "West" has tended to value objectivity and dismiss the subjective.


Is this basically refering to Platonic VS. Aristotelian world views, Also where Eastern thinkng became Kundalini Yoga via spirital healing and meditation, as to Western became the practice of modern medicine?

Is that what you mean?
Disclaimer:

All these thoughts,
words arranged in this message,
come from the Tao
and return to the Tao.
Yet they do not touch it.
Each of us will perceive the message,
Yet to each our own interpretation.

I'll see you when the river meets us
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
davedaviddavidson
#22 Posted : 7/9/2011 12:39:41 PM

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Hello Amanita Claus,
I really don’t follow your argument; perhaps you could be a bit clearer. Firstly you haven’t presented your reasoning behind why you think ‘’ the objective cosmos cannot be taken for the whole truth’’, It may be worth noting hear that I understand that our subjective experiences are part of the universe but It seems clear they only exist in our brains and therefore make up part of objective reality when viewed from a neurological perspective. You also say ‘’ A singularly objective universe independent of any observer is a fantasy, a thought exercise, and clearly is not our reality.’’ Surely you don’t mean to say that our perceived reality is made up of many interlinked subjective views? If this were true, if there was a time a majority of people thought the world to be flat, it was flat and then changed to being round when there perspective changed to think it so. This is clearly absurd, but would logical follow from ‘’evidence is that there is no such thing as total objectivity’’, I would very much like to see this evidence.
Next you say ‘’ Western science (and western thinking, in general) has traditionally tried to reduce all things to their exterior’’, yes I agree that science is purely concerned in mapping objectivity, but that is because perspectives on the nature of the universe derived from subjectivity are near enough useless when trying to establish a true view of the world. If I wanted to build and engine or treat someone’s infected wounds based solely on my subjective on even an intersubjective perspective completely independent of any objective testing or notion of objective truth, if would clearly be an absolute failure. Take a look around you and just think, all the technology and medicine and scientific knowledge we have would not exist if science was based on anything else but a totally objective perspective.
I also think it’s very reasonable to take scientific discoveries as partial or near enough total truths, yes these truths have changed and been disregarded over the years but that is the whole point of science, it’s constantly bettering itself, do you not regard the theory of atoms or DNA or gravity to be true? Although they may change overtime it is very unlikely they will be totally abolished, they will just become clearer, and be built upon and develop to become closer to absolute truth.

 
Jin
#23 Posted : 7/9/2011 3:01:33 PM

yes


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Amanita Claus wrote:

Scientic tradition is a product of Western thinking (to believe otherwise is to reveal a bias born of loyalty to the school of science (an egoic bias, no offense implied)), whereas other cultures have made greater strides in other areas out of an honoring of the subjective realms, the "West" has tended to value objectivity and dismiss the subjective



science is not a product of western thinking or tradition , it came from the EAST , science itself is based on mathematics and no-body could calculate until the number 0 came into existence which came from india actually , further everybody knows chinese were into mathematics since 2 century bc and using an abacus long before any western nation knew what science or mathematics stood for

Quote:
In 498 AD, Indian mathematician and astronomer Aryabhata stated that "Sthanam sthanam dasa gunam" or place to place in ten times in value, which is the origin of the modern decimal-based place value notation

source -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number) [ please copy this in your browser somehow clicking on this does not work ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus

i can elaborate but these sources already do the elaboration

you might think kung fu , or yoga and meditation is all un-scientific but the traditions have been practicing it 5000 years and are experts with detailed knowledge on the effects these practices are having on the human body and mind

, no religion or spirituality is un-scientific , neither is science not spiritual , its just that the bosses of both these particular parties have decided to present a view that separates them from each other totally , dont believe the shitty bosses pls

TRUE RELIGION IS VERY SCIENTIFIC
TRUE SCIENCE IS VERY SPIRITUAL

infact the religion i belong to strictly asks me to follow scientific methods of inquiry even into the religion itself and also consume entheogens with a open mind and use reason to understand the states with objectivity as well as subjectivity ,
my religion does not discard anything it uses science , entheogens , spirituality and even finance and politics to its advantage
illusions !, there are no illusions
there is only that which is the truth
 
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