Here's some comforting words..... even if your worst case scenario happened, it won't be any worse than it is now. Pot would be illegal just like it is now. But people would still use it, just like they do now. Sadly, some would get caught and punished. The world would continue to play a silly game of imprisoning users who commit no crime other than using, or posessing a substance. The world would play a game where posession itself is the crime, rather than target those who actually cause harm to the world. What a nightmare, but it wouldn't be worse than it is now. Actually.... I just made myself sad. Maybe those weren't comforting words.

Personally I doubt that a lot more people will be smoking cannabis in Cali if it's legalised...the ones who want to smoke are probably already doing so, since although it's illegal it's not exactly hard to get hold of. Also the Dutch experience of a tolerant approach to drugs suggests that general usage ends up becoming lower in this situation.

However, I hope that there will also be sensible information about cannabis pointing out that for some people it can be very psychologically addictive...and that if you become a habitual smoker you may become a rather dull couch potato...it can be a powerful demotivator. I've learned this the hard way!

Thought this might be better placed here than in a new thread.

Seems like it's moving things in the right direction in conjunction with the OP.

"California city approves marijuana farming"

http://www.reuters.com/a...100721?type=domesticNews

Methtical

Yes it makes total sense that most of the use will be from the people who use it regularly..People aren't going to just go out and say "Oh hey I'm gonna try this marijuana stuff."

Marijuana can be addicting but not in the way that opiates or alcohol provide. I personally smoked marijuana a few times a day for months, then I just stopped one day and now I only smoke it occassionally, a few times a month if I have the need to. Well its more of a want, I use it to relax and enjoy it, but also for the beneficial purposes of say, perceiving things differently or on a deeper level. Im not that fond of marijuana, there are people who smoke it all day everyday for an escape of some sort, and some of those are the lazy people sitting on the sofa eating junk food watching television. There are better medicines out there, ones that won't make you feel dependant.

Nonetheless, I hope we can utilize the "gateway drug" theory of marijuana to pave the road for legal use of other drugs.

"cellux wrote:
If I were a Californian, I would surely support this with a YES vote.

However, I'm a bit worried about the aftermath. Here is my hypothetical worst scenario: pot is legalized, great mass of people begins to toke, a minority gets a bit too addicted to the stuff, the negative consequences get vented in the press as a red flag by the opposition, which gives fuel to a backlash that may possibly eradicate not only the freedom to pot, but also hinder the work of organizations like MAPS, indefinitely postponing the legalization of ANY psychedelic substance.

(Soothing arguments on why this is NOT likely to happen are more than welcome.)

I'd legalize LSD first (through the MAPS route)."


Just look at holland. They dont have that problem..they have a lower % of smokers as compared to the US..why? prob becasue they stopped sensationalizing cannabis..hyping it up to school kids with they're anti cannabis laws and just say no add campains.

There is no glammer in it.

Residents of Arizona, California, Oregon, and South Dakota show your support.

Just Say Now!

http://firedoglake.com/justsaynow

Supporting sensible cannabis policy across the country.

I don't smoke a lot of pot (I was saturated with it for a while) and as such I just eventually realized it's not something I need to do everyday. It's definitely worthwhile at the climax of some amazing novel (Try reading the chase scene from moby dick while high, it is absolutely terrifying), or at a concert, but honestly my biggest wish from this is that we may eventually see lsd and hopefully all psychedelics (along with other drugs) legalized.

Here's a recent 1hr debate about cannabis legalization

Marijuana Economics
Commonwealth Club

http://fora.tv/2009/07/3...na_Economics#fullprogram

I think my next holiday wil be in califoria.

Not only will u have nice girls, sunny wheather and clubs but legal weed!

move over butlins, california is here

(i dont really go to butlins ima centerpars sort of guy, lol)

where have you guys been? your obviously not form cali..

Its decrim already, and medical.

Have you read the prop?

Its not hardly legalization! It creates MORE FELONIES, and reduces your grow space to 5x5 so rich lee can get richer..

its total bullshit, and now trailing badly, latest polls show.

I cant imagine what will happen if it passes so many potheads would move to cali and think they can make it in that economy.

People if you cant make it in Cali now you wont be able to if it passes, in other words if your not already there, dont go, it not easiest place to make a living. Dont get spanked and go broke and have to live in the park in the Golden State.

One seed will always be illegal in a federal court so really what good does it do? nothing!

Just get you a med card and be happy. Dont cap it at 5x5 and dont make more felonies. Its more than awesome the way it already is in Cali.

The potential this prop has to alter not just marijuana but all drug laws makes it far more important than the "limitations" that would really only limit for profit growers.

Look at the big picture. The last time marijuana was on the ballot to be legal was in the 70's. 30 fucking years. I don't want to wait another 30 years.

14 states have medical marijuana, It will not change the fed one bit whatever happens.

There are way better props coming down the line.

Dont sell out on the first piece of crap Rich lee puts out for his own good.

Again read the prop, it makes nothing legal that the Governator hasnt already decrim'd for all.

yeah but correct me if i am wrong is not better to decrim weed than go throw loop holes and get medical cards

Some of us have nothing wrong with us and cant get these ''medical cards''

I personally think you are right in saying mass population moving to cali will have an affecton jobs, living ect

but u were kinda biest! what about the positive's!

Cali i'm shure already has a booming tourist hotspot but legalizing weed will make that town even more famous, people with skills unique profession will travel all over the world to offer there skills in cali all cause of legalization of weed. not to mention the tons of cash people will make benefiting from the legalization of weed Aand the increase in culture there!

Well its kind of useless for me to keep posting in this thread since its quiet obvious none of you will be voting in Cali.

Let me remind you to make a drug LEGAL requires it to be TOTALLY REMOVED from FEDERAL SCHEDULING.

MARIJUANA is currently SCHEDULE I so good luck! its a PIPEDREAM.

@vibrancy "yeah but correct me if i am wrong is not better to decrim weed than go throw loop holes and get medical cards "

Its already decrim bud, did you not see this?

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed late Thursday a new law, Senate Bill 1449 that makes possessing up to an ounce of marijuana in California by an adult no more serious than getting a speeding ticket and a one hundred dollars penalty and no jail time.
“I am signing this measure because possession of less than an ounce of marijuana is an infraction in everything but name,” said Schwarzenegger. “The only difference is that because it is a misdemeanor, a criminal defendant is entitled to a jury trial and a defense attorney. In this time of drastic budget cuts, prosecutors, defense attorneys, law enforcement, and the courts cannot afford to expend limited resources prosecuting a crime that carries the same punishment as a traffic ticket.”

"Some of us have nothing wrong with us and cant get these ''medical cards'' "

Its crazy easy to get a card, do you have any sort of pain on medical record? ever broke a "bone"?

You seem to think that the weed economy will grow if it passes, but no the Prop 19 caps everyone but a few city licensed growers to 5x5. each city would give maybe 5 licenses, so only Rich Lee who already has airplanes hangers going will benefit.

Only the Biggest 5 will get licenses, so that only big business or corporations benefit!

What do you think the quality will be like then?

The connoisseur growers cali now has will all get capped at 5x5 bro, DONT RUIN IT...

Well look at it this way, prop 19 passes, and then you can amend it. Thats the benefit of having something in the legal system. You can amend and change it, sometimes even for the better! As for your comment saying it won't legal until it's removed from federal scheduling? How do you think that will happen? Bills like these made by states all over the country. Not in some giant repeal bill that makes it legal for everyone to toke up all the time. You and me could care less, but a lot of the country doesn't see it on our level which is why we compromise. It's the only way to get things done.


You mention other props. I'm unfamiliar with them. Could you point some out? The weed economy to me right now doesn't mean a damn thing honestly. You'll be able to grow your own plants if you want. Right now it needs to be legal so innocent people stop being sent to prison. Fuck money fuck good bud. If people have a monopoly on the weed market until we can amend this bill so be it as long as innocent people stop going to jail for smoking weed.


I'm not sure if you understand how big a deal this is. It could literally change the way the world views marijuana. Look outside California. Not everyone has it as good as you do. In the next election cycle or whatever you could amend this bill. So that whatever bullshit it came with would stop. If you wait for the next prop to come around how many people will go to jail? Is it really worth it? Are the lives ruined the money wasted and continued demonization of the wonderful plant truly worth having an amendable prop that doesn't completely fit your or my ideal world view not pass

If CA legalized it, though, I think sometime in the near future the government would be forced to make a decision regarding marijuana. If they didn't, chances are it'd go to the Supreme Court. And then the scheduledness you speak of would be changed!

Anyway, even some federally run hospitals are now allowed to prescribe medical marijuana. The scheduling has already been changed in all but name... now it's time to make it official. I think CA's legalization would force the issue. And if ONE thing makes it off Schedule I, then that could open up the entire scheduling system for re-evaluation!!

As for the number of licenses... Prop 19 doesn't limit the number of licenses at all, does it? It seems to leave that up to local legislation. Why wouldn't the current connoisseur growers be able to get licenses? There aren't limitations.

It should be legal... fully. In 1976 I was happy that it was reduced from being a possible felony charge to a misdemeanor. It has been a long time coming that the state law in CA is moving towards full legalization and commercialization.

It should be legal in all 50 states, but the liquor lobby does not like the competition nor does the CIA appreciate a major source of its black (off the books, law books that is, unconstitutional that is) program funding disappearing as well.

I am all for this proposition passing, and I do not live in California nor have I smoked marijuana in nearly 2 decades.

this is my last post in this thread, its ridiculous.

the only thing this prop accomplishes is a grow space cap and more felonies.

Youll notice its called CONTROL & TAX CANNABIS, its not legalization.

Its not gonna change anything for the good if it passes.

Since its not legalization, no other states will try to legalize.

If you think the fed is going to de-schedule pot you need your head examined.

If it happens within my lifetime Ill eat my shorts.

edit: I guess its possible if we had a Ron Paul in the driver seat but wouldnt happen short of some states seceding which many are eyeing at this time.

proto- I never attacked you or your ideas...just the over all thread, its not legallization if there are still felonies, and peeps left in the jail

I'm really sad you feel that way. Normally ad hominems wouldn't hurt me, but this is really one issue we all need to unite on because of how bullshit the laws are. Guess you're gone though...

I don't think cannabis should be legalised any more than any other drug should be legalised. As well as cigerrettes and alchohol been ILLegalised. But i'm gonna tell you a little story about me and almost all my main friends, even ones i dont have much contact with! Before you read this short story i will say that i KNOW smoking weed does not cause large problems for everyone. I promise my binge on drugs over the past 2 days is nothing to do with this contemplative state! haha.

Well we started smoking weed when we were pretty young (13/14 and older) and it stayed that way until we were about 15/16 when our income increased. Then obviously more money, means more weed, more of the time!

This is where problems first started. Gradually me and my friends would spend less and less time talking while we smoked weed and then smoke more weed. We all started doing worse at school (without exception) but we didn't care and this was only rectified once we stopped habitually smoking weed. But they were just minor problems...

Of the 20/25 close friends (close even if i didn't see them much) who smoked weed habiutally for more than 3 years (it seems the younger you start the worse it was) were effected by it mentally. Most have got over their former problems (but only after quite a long amount of time) as they have stopped smoking weed and the effects only come back after smoking weed again.

However, 1 of my friends is now a paranoid schizophrenic (he was 17 when it happeneded and he had never done ANY other drug but smoked alot of weed),

Another friend smokes a half ounce to himself (all in spliffs, with tabacco which cant help) minimum a week and doesn't leave the house unless he's got at least an eighth, he also got kicked out of university for 10% attendence and he NEVER used to be even remotely lazy. He also has had various episodes when we're out where he really doesn't seem well and becomes absolutley silent, even when people try to talk to him (i've known him since i was 4). He's depressed when he's not stoned.

One group of 4 became completley cut off from everyone as they just wanted to get stoned and do virtually nothing else. They also automatically started to dislike everyone new they met. They only told me this when i happend to see them at a club when i was 16. We were all absolutley smashed on pills and it was awesome seeing them again. They'd stopped smoking weed a few months before i saw them because they didn't meet anyone new were doing very little except smoking weed (2 of them still had lasting anxiety FROM smoking weed, 1 now cures this with alchohol....great..).

Another group of friends i used to play rugby with started smoking alot of weed when they were at parties when we were young, but then of course, the ones that end up smoking it habitually, pretty much all had the exact same problems i was just talking about. But it stops you caring your not doing anything!

When i went to university i was given prospectus's for oxford and cambridge and given a huge speech of how i could do it if i tried. But i wasn't MUCH of a trier before weed. I already played too many computer games before smoking weed. Nevermind afterwards.

I ended up getting a C and 2 E's in a levels (seniors for americans i think? 17 - 18?. C in maths, and 2 E's in further maths and phsyics. This was split into 4 blocks of exams, after the first 3 i was on a U (unclassified) and 2 E's. Then in my last block of tests, i stopped smoking weed for 2 months. I only stopped because of my girlfriend getting really pissed off haha. But in my last bunch of exams i actually did some revision (not enough but hey) and took 11 exams. 4 which i should of taken and SEVEN resits. I only realised how different i was after i stopped smoking weed.

Now, i know alot of you will of heard this before and unless it's happended to some one you know it wont be the same. This is all opinion but i think starting smoking weed from a very young age inparticular is alot worse than most people think (very young being 12/13+). I think alot of people don't realise how they're getting because you change so much as your getting older and it can stop you noticing the change yourself and it becomes the norm (just a theory obviously).

Well in conclusion (tried to make this brief) I think smoking weed is fine In small doses! As long as your under control of "The Urge"! When it leads to you doing it every day... every week... every month then it's got to stop. Just like drinking, heroin, crack, meth or smoking. Smoking it everyday is not good, I don't care how long you've done it for but it's soooo eassssyyy to get into that habit of smoking it everyday, and legalising it wont change that thats for sure!

Sorry if anything in this post reads wrong. I ain't proof read as my bed looks nicely appertising and i'm feeling pretty rough heh.

But ye. Have fun all!