I wonder as well - Maybe he'd feel intense love and happiness to see that joe's reached an important plateau, soon to discover that the real work is unfolding before him. I doubt any of us know enough about a shaman's world to even begin speculating on what one would think. Whatever you do joe I think if you focus your intentions on discovering something new you'll find what you need one way or another. I say this from very limited experience with spice myself (20 or so journeys, no breakthroughs), but get back to your psychedelic basics and take a detailed look at your set and setting. Maybe even go to the point of reexamining what set and setting mean to you. I'm not saying yours are bad or that your posts even suggest this, rather that when we find ourselves stuck in life it often helps to retrace our steps, sometimes all the way back if we're really puzzled.

I normally read a self righteous post like the one from nodice and think "wow, what an asshole" and then move on without responding. But I have read every experience report from joebono, and have come to respect his work in the same way I respect Ant's. They are both pioneers and gifted writers.

People should worry about their own rituals, customs, habits whatever you want to call them and let others do as they wish.
Same goes for all the self righteous folks that put down people for buying plant products, instead of having a grass farm in the basement. I assure you that I am not bringing about the "illegalization", as they say, of DMT containing plants. THEY ARE ALREADY ILLEGAL TO USE FOR WHAT WE USE THEM FOR. Whether you buy 'em or grow 'em they are still illegal to distribute or extract from, so get over yourselves.

Pokey the Peeved

Wow I really have made some enemys here in my premature spouting and I do so humbly apologize for that. My intention was not to pass judgment, but to offer up the notion that maybe the use of the plant was to not achieve visuals is all. Now I understand I came off a little condescending and possibly insulting however my offences amount to a wee fraction of the insults directed at my own person in response. Please review this people. Joe I do apologize to you for my mannerisms, I simply didnt see in this thread alone what kind of respect you have for the experience. I hope that I have not permanently tarnished my reputation here in my response to this thread. I assure you that I meant no disrespect the way that it was taken. I take this experience we share very seriously and I may come off kind of shitty in defense of it when I see it being treated like a recreational bouncy room so to speak. This here seems to have been my mistake and I apologize once again to Joe and any other member of the forums here whom have felt disrespected by my rants. I wish to make only friends here and I hope that you can see that it merely came from my possibly unwarranted need to protect the integrity of the sacrament.

As I have seen my error and have seen that you do indeed have much more respect for it than I originally assumed, I to ask that you not judge myself based on my proverbial spouting and see it not as me casting judgment upon you but more as me merely reacting in defense of the experience.

I will be sure to be more thorough in my evaluations of these posts in the future because I am left in a lonely place here in defense of my actions.

That's okay, Nodice. Sometimes we act without considering the whole picture and it's cool that you are able to reconsider your post. The common value on this forum is the significance of the psychedelic experience in our lives and sometimes in our effort to protect it, we get overzealous. Let's move on so we can all continue to grow.

maybe some, but definitely some do have visions.. in fact there is a whole 'science' in the huni kuin tribe about how certain icaros bring about certain visions, and the visions are definitely an important part of their experience..


btw, as for the whole ritual thing, Im gonna open a new thread because its an interesting subject