I understand that you could read into the bible that way but what I'm saying is it would have to of been meant to be that way in order for your theory to be true. Regardless of your belief no one can deny there is a "power that drives the universe". If that were the "main idea" originally (which I don't entirely disbelieve that it couldn't be) then it would make sense. I can also understand why it would need to be put that way, the earliest civilizations wouldn't understand the vast complexity of existence as it is in its original form.

But I fail to see proof that this is it's actual method. You can take any cartoon on tv and impose a theme on top that is different than the obvious storyline. There's nothing random about it, language is extremely immature in its complexity. We have not perfected language by any means, and the fact that we don't have singular words that have only one possible meaning for everything leads to the fact that you can take any text written as the bible is and make it sound like they are talking about a million different things.

If you applied this same technique you can say the bible tells of aliens creating us through the use of genetics. The bible can also be seen as actually a book of Satan. You can also read it as just life lessons and information about how positive thought and negative thought are mechanics in the balancing beam of life. The possibilities are completely endless and it all has to do with mathematics.

For instance:
The word SET has the most definitions of any word in the English language. SET has 464 definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary. Here's how the others stack up:
RUN - 396 (defs.)
GO - 368
TAKE - 343
STAND - 334
GET - 289
TURN - 288
PUT - 268
FALL - 264
STRIKE - 250

It wouldn't be very difficult to write a paragraph, using just some of these words, that would have different meanings to each person that read it. When you read something your view on what you visualize in your head is formulated based on your experience in life, this creates the vision of what you think the paragraph is about based on your understanding of the mechanics of life. So as we progress through the ages and form even more technological advancements out view on what the bible is referring to WILL change based on the new things that we learn that form our views on what life is and how we experience it.

I think it's more along the lines of Satan playing into the equation and "infecting" people with the idea, that idea spreads to those that are not pure of heart or that haven't excepted god into their life. So by attacking homosexuality your basically fighting in gods name to rid the world of Satan.

Not a very good explanation actually. But the idea is there. I'm in a hurry gotta goto work!

Someone who doesn´t have homosexual feelings deep down inside, would not be so obsessed with it. I mean, why THIS obsession? Why not rid the world of mais or vegetarians? Ideas originate somewhere. And it´s not very likely that it´s actually god (or satan) putting these ideas in people´s head.

If someone is afraid of being infected with homosexual feelings, he must be having them already somewhere. A persons fear is a reflection of what goes on inside his mind. Especially irrational fears.
Ofcourse they want to atribute their ideas to a book, so they can pretent that it´s not realy their own ideas. But the bible judges masturbation just as much. More people masturbate than engage in homosexual practices. The same argument (sex is for reproduction and reproduction only) applies to masturbation, but some of these religious nuts are not half as obsessed with masturbation as they are with homosexuality. That´s telling.

Cheap strong cider for me tonight unfortunately, I envy your single malt. I don't make a habit of highlighting spelling mistakes and shit like that, I generally find it to be a cheap attack, I just thought that particular one in it's context was quite funny.

I do find this take on the bible that you speak about very interesting. I went through quite a long spell a year or two ago of very pro-actively arguing about religion with everyday folks, and I had not come across this idea of the bible being basically encrypted. I may spend a bit of time trying to investigate it, but to be honest the main reason I asked for a specific example was because although I do have a passing interest in the subject I don't really want to spend months boning up on it just to find a bit of meaning in obscure ancient writings. But if someone actually spelled one out for me I would no doubt find it interesting. I recently started reading the Bhagavad Gita and to be honest it requires so much less gymnastics to find interesting concepts in this compared to the bible. Also even just a cursory glance at the words of people like the Buddha, or some of his contemporaries, seems to be rich with very insightful stuff... unencrypted stuff that just makes sense and seems highly moral (if there is such a thing as highly moral, I guess what I mean is "fits with my morality" lol).

I just got the PWI/DUI thing. My bad, lol.

Cool. Cheers mate.

The Bhagavad Gita is an awesome read. The entire Mahabharata is fun actually. (The BG is actually just a song in the Mahabharata)

While it is nice to have stuff spelled out, and this encryption thing can seem like a boorish waste of time... it has to be understood in the context of the Israelites being enslaved in Egypt, Babylon & Persia... as well as being occupied and persecuted by every other major power. From Assyria to Germany, Greece to Russia, Rome to the Turks... the Jews have had a pretty heady run of people trying to erase them. Furthermore, two of the world's biggest religions are both based on Judaism, so there is extra religious reasons to preserve the "truth" in the face of strong pressures that would have destroyed a less hard-headed people and their culture.

The Vedas might have had some conflicts... notably with Islam, but there was never a time when Vedic culture was in any real danger of being stamped out or had to be preserved while being an oppressed and despised minority.

Religious people who oppose honosexuality arent so much obsessed with being anti-gay as they are obsessed with spreadinh the word of god. You don't think religious people can have irrational fears based on the wrath of god? I'm not saying that it's Satan putting those ideas in their head to be homosexual, but religious fanatics has announced such a thing many times about that exact topic, as well as others. I think this is small beans compared to the atrocities that HAVE happened without a doubt due to the fact that someone thinks that's what god would want them to do, and that they are fighting satans army by trying to stop it.

I doubt you can attribute someone's hate for homosexuality to being homosexual themselves. There are many different reason people hate others. Racist white people don't hate blacks because they secretly want to be black. There is a more underlying cause.

Would be funny though, if all anti-gay religious people were secretly gay themselves. Highly unlikely though.

Like Ted Haggard?

Yes, but racist white people aren´t afraid to become black, do they? That´s what´s so typical about homophobia: the idea that it can be transmitted. The fear to become gay. That if it would not be opressed with all means available, everybody would become gay automatically.

Jews are hated, black people are hated, muslims are hated and christians are hated. But none of those jew, muslim, etc, haters have the fear of becoming jewish, black, christian or muslim themselves.

My best friend's boyfriend grew up in communist China. The first words out of his mouth when coming down from Hyperspace were: "There is a God, isn't there!" followed by "It's so scary, but I'm not scared."

I know what your saying is true in SOME cases, im not disagreeing with your logic. I'm just disagreeing that the sole reason or even the majority reason is based on that idea. I think that each person has their own reasons and that it's more of a mix of reasons.

The bible is interpreted to many of these people as saying that it's a sin to be gay. That is the first cause of motivation for sure. Some won't do anything about it but simply just hold that belief, but not become an activist about it. Others that are motivated to help the cause are doing it because they believe that is what god wants.

Now I would say the same thing about people who are anti-gay with no religious motivation behind them. IMO the major driver in this is based off morals. A husband and a wife, the traditional standard, is seen as being threatened by homosexuality by some. That I would say it the majority driving force behind the anti-gay (movement?) for both sides. I just don't see how being afraid of becoming gay due to having some gay thoughts or urges could be conceivable as the major player in why "religious" people protest homosexuality.

My question to you is, why exactly do you think this is THE reason behind it? Don't you think it's a pretty bold statement to say that everyone who is religious and anti gay, is actually gay themselves?

EDIT: ok hold on. You said ideas originate from somewhere and that it isn't likely god or Satan putting these ideas in people's heads. I think you misunderstood me. People got the idea from the bible. And then create the idea that Satan must have created homosexuality. Because anything evil is satans creation. So the idea isn't just coming from nowhere. It's actually in the bible, if you take it literally.

Well to be honest, the hatred for these groups does tend to originate in the idea that they are somehow "taking over." This is not always the case, and often people inherit the prejudice from someone who did think this way without really inheriting the roots of the belief.

White people in the post-slavery era had two major fears regarding black people. 1) That they would pollute the white race with their dominant genes and raging libidos 2) That they would seek revenge for what was clearly a revenge-worthy affront (meaning white people would have gotten even if it had been them being enslaved and treated like dirt)

This is not all that different than the fears that lead to homophobia, anti-semitism or the rest. Jews are trying to take over Germany with their filthy money-grubbing ways! Now it is that they want to enslave the entire world with their banking cartels.

Obviously, none of the irrational fears that lead to racism or other extreme prejudice are justified or have ever even remotely played out in reality. The response to the fear is generally 10x worse than the thing they had feared in the first place. But fear is not a rational emotion.

At any rate, vis a vis homosexuality... I think it fell into a general licentious, sex-obsessed and extremely kinky status quo among the enemies of Israel and their often super kinky cults. The worshipers of Baal & Astarte (Aphrodite, Ishtar, Venus, the Whore Of Babylon) were generally engaged in orgies, sodomy, the priestesses were prostitutes etc. etc. This was the case with most idol worshipers of the day.

The Greeks had their homoerotic culture. The Romans had mad orgies in which homosexuality featured heavily... watch Caligula (hehehehe).

The point is, that admonishments against liberal sex, adultery, sodomy, and idol-worship went hand in hand. Much of the Leviticus laws can be seen as a way of stating unequivocally that we are not the sinners that the Canaanites and Moabites and Babylonians are.

At any rate, judging people who lived in the Bronze Age by modern Space Age morals is bound to be a waste of your time. As I said before, the Iron, Steel and early Industrial Ages were probably at least as (if not more) morally decrepit.

Psychologists and sexuologists these days, believe that most people are to a certain extent bi-sexual. I don´t know if that is exactly true, but the fact that in greek and roman culture, so homosexualality was actually propagated and practiced by many does seem to indicate that sexuality is at least not a fixed thing and can be influenced by society.

But there is something much more interesting: it looks like opressing sexual urges that are said to be evil, actually makes these feelings STRONGER instead of weaker. In society´s that have very rigid sexual morals, people more often seem to have something of a split personality. Once they, maybe under the influence of alcohol, maybe when they feel that nobody´s watching them at the time, let go of their inhibitions...they´ll start engaging in exactly all those things that they believe is evil. The more deprived the act, the more they will indulge. It is like telling people not to think about elephants. The only thing that they will think about is elephants. The catholic church is probably one of the saddest example of this phenomenon. They´ll preach against all forms of sexual behaviour that does not create life. They´ll preach against finding pleasure in sex. Sex is only meant to create life and finding pleasure in it is wrong...and then they´ll rape a few hundred defenceless childeren in the most brutal manner imaginable.

In italy, one of europe´s most rigid society´s when it comes to sex, there are more prostitutes then everywhere else in western europe. A majority of italian prostitutes are actually transgenders. Especially ladyboys or she-males are extremely populare in italy.
The bigger the taboo, the more deprived the act, the more they´ll want it.

Most people are not very creative. They´ll let society run their lives. They´ll let taboo´s dominate their lives. Either they´ll listen, and like a slave, let the church run their lives, or they´ll let go of their inhibitions and start acting out exactly those things of wich they are told that it´s very, very bad, so they AGAIN, let the church run their lives, but just in the opposite way. In society´s that have a very tolerant atmosphere, there are actually less people who engage in stuff like SM, sodomy, etc.

Most people are not very creative. That´s the sad thing. And when they think that they have liberated themselves, they´ll most of the time turn out to only have replaced one set of chains for another, a heavier set of chains, that only locks them tighter.

That´s what they´ll get for not listening to that one thing the church still keeps forgetting about: their heart.

^^^^

Also Eliyahu, I"m friends with many homosexuals, and our experiences and observations are way different. None of them have any agenda to "turn straights gay." "many do this" Every time you post you share something more absurd and baseless, it's honestly a huge turn off, and I'm not the only member who feels this way. You make comments all the time that come off as "ultimate" and the problem is, you're completely off most of the time.

Well it's not common knowledge to me, and wasn't common knowledge to my school history teacher either. A quick google search turns up a bunch of CT looking sites and a wikipedia page which merely asserts that Hitler was an occultist and lists no citation *at all* for the claim.

I'm asking you what you are basing the assertion on. I hate to say it but I agree with Korey, almost every post I see from you has claims of certainty and baseless assertions (or at least assertions which you fail to give real reasoning for when questioned about them). That's not a judgement on the whole of your character, you seem like a nice enough guy... but I think you have a lot of ideas floating around in your head that you just take as self-evident when they may in fact not be.

The bit about him obviously not being Christian because Christ was a Jew, are you forgetting that he was Catholic, and at that period the official Catholic dogma was that Jews were christ killers. I of course see the paradox of hating Jews whilst worshipping a Jew, but not everyone is as rational as me especially not Hitler.

Eliyahu, just because you worked with a pederast doesn't mean that's a flaw unique to homosexuals. What is your point there, lol? I know there are people out there who are pederasts, that doesn't surprise me.

Pedophilia is a human flaw unique to the human condition. So you've known a few gays that got a kick out of hitting on straight men, what's your point? You know a few dumb people? Any homosexual with a good head on their shoulders realizes "changing" someone or turning them on to homosexuality is a waste of time, humans don't have a choice in the matter.

Where did I state all gays only like gays? You implied that a large group of gays are running around trying to "TURN" people straight. You're wording is poor and your evidence is even more poor. I never said a homosexual can't be attracted to a heterosexual.

Your posts belong in the spirituality section, with all the other baseless claims and your extremely large ego which thinks it's Elijah.

I was not aware that the people at National Geographic were Conspiracy theorists.

NO shock that you school history teacher was wrong...I suppose you think the Spanish conquistadors were hero explorers as well, just like they teach in school.


Also I am always EXTREMEY CLEAR about the fact that everything I say is nothing more than my opinion..O-P-I-N-I-O-N

That means don't take what I say too seriously.....if you are taking the writing of some guy who thinks he is the prophet Elijah seriously to the point that it makes you mad...

IMO I would say that your disgust with me nothing more than a self reflection of your own self importance. Of course that is only my OPINION.

Korey wrote:


Oh ok, is there an incredibly rude and thoughtless person section?? because in my OPINION that is where your posts belong


I agree to be in total disagreement with you both....Korey and Gary88..

Cheers!

Haha, I'm not disgusted with you by any means. I can play the psychoanalyze card as well, perhaps your assumption of me being disgusted with you is a deep seeded inner truth of which you feel for yourself....? ;pp


I just think you've got a few screws loose, I suppose there really isn't anything wrong with that.

National geographic didn't come up, or I would have checked it out. You were free to offer that to me when I asked, yet you never, so it seems a bit unreasonable to throw a comment like that at me. I'll watch the Nat Geo documentary and give it some thought.

I'm not sure I agree that you necessarily have a huge ego just because you believe yourself to be Elijah... but I can understand why someone might think you do. Think about it from an outsiders point of view. Thousands of people all around the world believe something delusional like that, maybe you really are the exception and your belief is true... but you give no reason to think that is the case other than saying that your experiences are so much more profound compared to the experiences of others. It just sounds an awful lot like "I'm special, I am the chosen one, I have a direct line to Jesus" the same as all the other people who make these sorts of claims about themselves.

You are welcome to your opinion but if you post it in an open forum you will be questioned about it. Your opinions are your beliefs. If you don't like people questioning your statements, don't make them in public.

If I posted here saying something like "Winston Churchill was secretly a member of a boy band" it would be pretty daft of me to get wound up and say things like that's just my O P I N I O N when people inevitably asked me to back up what I was saying. You are always free to admit that you are just making unfounded or untestable claims, and at that point I will wish you good day and just go about my business without giving what you've said any more thought. But I think it is more polite of me to try to get you to explain your reasoning rather than just dismissing everything you say out of hand.

Sorry my fault as I posted the nat geo video above in a late edit...forgot to mention it. If you google search hitler occult the first thing that comes up is a nat geo video on it...History channel also did a piece on it. I do appriciate your relative politeness BTW

EDIT:
Also as far as my having a direct line to Jesus goes, I do. I don't see this as making me special though. I want other people to have the exact same link because it is awesome, that's all, I'm not trying to be some bigshot know it all. My experiences are written as they happened and any living person can experience similar things is all i'm saying.


-peace

EDIT: The swastika itself is a variation on occult symbolism.