If taken as a capsule it’s slightly weaker because it takes longer to digest. Alkaloids dissolved in water are digested many times faster and so they hit you faster and stronger. This is a near universal rule for all drugs.



The DMT was extracted from chacruna and was completely white crystals, so it was probably at least 98% pure.

THH HCl is 1.6 times more potent than THH citrate, so if you calculate the cost based on that it’s actually a price drop.

There's little reason to make it illegal. I wouldn't worry about that. Only a small handful of people in the entire world even know what THH or ayahuasca is.

In the US, THH has been classified as a drug with no potential for abuse for many years. In order to make it illegal, they’d have to change the classification of it, and that’s something they almost never do. It’s not like savinorin which was not even classified for a long time. It’s not a new alkaloid. THH has been known for a long time and so has ayahuasca.

Harmine has been used far more than THH has (look at all the reports on Erowid of its use with other drugs), and it's still legal in almost every part of the world.

In combination with DMT and other psychedelics, THH is a powerful alkaloid, but when taken alone, it's relatively weak and not something I would ever see getting popular as a stand alone drug.

Yah, that's what I'd figured; thank you.

Hm. SWIM has a an order that ought to be arriving any time, and is debating whether to purify the raw mimosa extract SWIM has (which they've never bothered to do), or to take a chance and go dancing in the jungle. Especially when attempting experiences of heightened intensity, SWIM usually tries to err on the side of caution, but... SWIM also has an attraction to reckless abandon.

Without the obvious benefit of having any experience with the extraction SWIM has, does anyone have any advice on that front for SWIM? 69ron? It seems SWIY has the most experience with this combination thus far... any wisdom to share?

Update:

23mg THH HCl insufflated. Mild to very unpleasant burning in the sinuses and back of throat was experienced by SWIM for about half an hour, with almost no other detectable effects. SWIM did note that an aching jaw injury felt painless and fluid at what must have been the "peak", and the soreness returned shortly after the burning ceased.

SWIM was a bit dissapointed, but SWIM also doesn't have a great deal of experience jamming stuff up his nose. SWIM notes that user error is a possibility, though not likely. SWIM has even less experience administering anything rectally, but that's exactly what he's going to try tomorrow. Seems to SWIM that it'll be hard to F that up. More to come.

SWIM finds doing it sublingually works the best...snorting the stuff is a bit rough on the throat and nose...

Snorting THH is unpleasant and doesn’t work for SWIM. When SWIM snorted tetrahydroharmine citrate, he got nausea, felt sick, and got no other effects from it. That was from the same dose that produced great effects sublingually without any nausea or other side effects.

He’s got best effects from sublingual use. Oral is also pleasant. He’s not tried smoking it or taking it any other way yet.

Mm. Rough, unpleasant, sick... yeah, SWIM reports that these are all good adjectives.

SWIM would've gone the sublingual route, but was concerned about two factors: One, the mild chemical burn mentioned earlier in this thread (though I believe that was THH Citrate, and packed between the lip and gums), and two, the practicality of sublingual application. SWIM thought that trying to keep saliva away from his tongue or out of the bottom of his mouth for 10-15 minutes sounded like a bit of a hassle, and more importantly, introduced more potential for user error.

SWIM is perfectly happy to experiment with all methods sans injection, and will give sublingual a go tonight. Does anyone have some good tips with regard to application technique? I've read about clamping saliva out of the bottom of the mouth with the tongue, or smearing the ~20mg on the bottom of the tongue and keeping the tongue elevated... but I don't know which would work best for SWIM. Naturally, this won't keep SWIM from trying until he gets it right.

SWIM mixes his THH HCl with a little bit of water..until its all absorbed..then he just puts it in his mouth and tries to keep it under his tongue..it doesnt burn...the hardest part is when you first put it in your mouth..but once its there you cant taste it...he just moves it around inside his mouth for about 10 minutes..and then swallows..seems to do the trick fine

Huh! Sounds relatively painless. Thanks, Jorkest! SWIM will make use of that technique tonight, and I'll report his results.

SWIM reports very curious results from a variety of tests, and I'd love to see any input you guys might care to provide.

Last night, SWIM and a friend gave Jorkest's sublingual method a try. 25mg THH HCl per person was dissolved in 3ml water, and allowed to sit in the basin under the tongue. Not feeling strong results, they allowed this to continue for ~25 minutes before swallowing. Effects, if present, were only very barely noticeable, though the numbness in the tongue that's been reported was present in both individuals at the "peak". The tongue-numbing sensation was easily more pronounced than anything else.

After ~10 more minutes had passed, unsatisfied and thinking they may have a) made some error in the application, b) not used a high enough dosage, or c)both, SWIM and their friend decided to apply *another* 25mg each sublingualy, but as a powder, clamping the tongue to the bottom of their mouths. This only lasted ~10 minutes as the friend of SWIM coughed and involuntarily swallowed most of their dose. SWIM followed suite, to keep results consistent. Tongue numbness was still present during and after the second sublingual dosage, but little else was felt by either party. Both agreed that a very subtle, almost indetectable sense of relaxation may have been present.

After another ~10 minutes had passed, the two, frustrated, decide to try yet another delivery method... the big guns, as it were. 20mg THH HCl was dissolve in 3ml water (per person), and administered to both intrarectally. Based on previous reports, SWIM expected dramatic results from this, but little was felt. The sensation of relaxation became *slightly* more perceptable. ~10 more minutes pass and SWIM and friend decide to try one more time, and 30mg THH HCl were dissolved in 4ml water, and another rectal administration was attempted.

Finally, both agreed that about 10 minutes after the last dosage, they could perceive a distinct feeling of looseness in the body, with the heady feeling a bit "floaty". After ten more minutes, however, SWIM began to also feel distinctly nauseous, and the floating sensation in the head is tinged with dizziness or vertigo. SWIM reports that the body felt incredibly relaxed, which was pleasant, even though though the sensations of dizziness and nausea were growing stronger. The friend concurred that the body relaxation was present, though probably not as strong as for SWIM, and was experiencing no adverse effects.

Thankfully, the peak of the nausea passed after ~30 minutes. During that time, SWIM felt very heavily sedated, and sick. For him, it was not entirely unlike having taken too many muscle relaxants. There were no tingling sensations for either SWIM or his friend, and certainly no vibration or "ogasmic" sensation that has been reported by others.

Today, SWIM feels fine. I have to say that given what I'd read about THH, I'm both confused and disappointed by these results. SWIM feels his results are so divergent from expectations, though highly unlikely, he's willing to consider that he received a mis-labeled vial from the vendor. SWIM has no experience with pure Harmine or Harmaline extracts. His THH HCl is a slightly yellowish, slightly brownish powder with no obvious crystaline structure even when viewed under 80x magnification. The taste was bitter, but little else.

If anyone can shed some light on these results, I'd be very grateful.

Well, when SWIM tried snorting THH, he got nausea, felt sick and got no other effects. That sounds just like SWIY’s rectal experiment. However, the same batch was quite effective sublingually and orally and was without side effects.

I think it is likely that SWIY developed tolerance to the THH while testing it. For SWIM the tolerance lasts about 18 hours or so. It’s best not to take it more than once in a day. At least it’s that way for SWIM.

Try skipping a day, and then try 50 mg sublingually. It should be very noticeable. 20 mg sublingually is barely detectable, but enough to develop tolerance to it for SWIM.

The color of THH HCl powder is sort of a grayish straw color and pretty bitter tasting. It tastes far more bitter than freebase harmine or freebase harmaline does.

I doubt it was mislabeled. If it was either harmine or especially harmaline, SWIY would feel somewhat drugged from it after taking so much. 10 mg of harmaline taken sublingually is very noticeable and it takes a lot to develop tolerance to either harmine or harmaline.

Yeah, I was whether wondering SWIM and his friend didn't unintentionally edge themselves out of effective dosage range by taking dosages at the outset that were too small. Just to be accurate, rectal administration wasn't all nausea for SWIM - there was profound relaxation of his body at the peak. His thinking was clear, but he felt very sedated, and very relaxed. His pulse rate seemed slower than normal. All of this would've been fine (less than expected, but not unpleasant) had it not been accompanied by slight dizziness and much worse nausea.

SWIM's earlier attempt at nasal administration was worthless in exactly the way you describe - lots of burning and discomfort, and little else.

I also find it highly unlikely that SWIM was sent the wrong substance, but from what I've read, 50mg is a lot to take up the butt and not really feel anything, so other possibilities had to be considered.

Thanks for your kind advice; SWIM and friend will give a large sublingual dosage a try again tomorrow via Jorkest's method, unless anyone has serious objections as to its efficacy.

What do you think is the smallest volume of water into which SWIM could dissolve 50mg THH HCl?

SWIM doesn't use water. He just places the powder under his tongue and holds it there by pressing his tongue against the bottom of his mouth for 10 minutes and then swallows. SWIM has tried up to 100 mg that way and experienced mild visual effects similar to DMT for a few minutes during the peak. No side effects were experienced. That was after not having any THH for 2 days. I think it won't work well unless you skip at least 1 day.

SWIM just put 15mg of THH powder under his tongue. He could have fit 50mg most likely. Produces a lot of saliva. He doesn't see the need to dissolve it in water. It does burn just a hair, but not bad at all.

15mg was enough to feel some slight effects, clear headed, after 20 mins of sublingual method.

If you're going to pre-dissolve it in anything, DMSO would probably be the most effective sublingual carrier for it, and might possibly increase the potency quite a bit.

Wow, never heard of DMSO before. Does that work with anything that will dissolve in it, to carry it into the bloodstream?

It only works with some compounds. For example, DMT dissolves in it completely, but is still nearly ineffective sublingually. It works best for things that are normally active sublingually, for example it works really well with 5-MeO-DMT and salvinorin A, and most likely will also work great for THH.

So this DMSO could potentiate a Salvia quid then?

How's the DMSO taste?

Yes, SWIM and friend will give any developed tolerance time to subside... and will try applying 50 or 60mg of the powder dry.

DMSO seems to be readily available online, and SWIM would be happy to give it a try and report. Is it necessary to request a recommendation for a specific vendor, or will just about anything do? The second item in this google shopping list seems promising, but I have no experience with DMSO. Advice?

http://www.google.com/pr...tf-8&rls=org.mozilla

I gather it's not kosher on the Nexus to mention specific sites or vendors, and I've no wish to violate site policy, so please let me know if I'm out of line here.

That one looks good to me. It's a different brand that what I have. As long as it's 99.9% DMSO with nothing else added it should be good. You might want to check if it’s food grade or not before buying it. Most 99.9% DMSO being sold at health food stores is actually food grade and meant to be used to help other nutrients absorb sublingually, however the FDA doesn’t allow DMSO to be sold for ingestion, so they legally have to say it’s for solvent use only. Many doctors swear by using DMSO despite the FDA’s negative position on it.