Is it possible? Of course, the only way to know is to evap.

better not evap
Just back salt with vinegar water, then base your vinegar pulls and pull with a small amount of naphta

Hey! I'm new here so forgive me if this is the wrong place for this question.
I am hoping to do a simple harmala alkaloid extraction from syrian rue. I have a few questions about the chemistry though. I have read that harmaline is highly soluble in warm water (according to tihkal) so I don't see why adding an acid is necessary to form a salt for the initial extraction. Secondly, I wanted to know if by doing a simple water extraction (with an acid if necessary), filtering and then salting out the actives would be enough to remove the toxic bits and prevent nausea. Obviously it won't be a very pure product but my main concern is minimizing toxicity as I have a fairly week stomach . Thanks for the help! Excited to join this community!

Typically after my first extraction there is so little spice left I hardly bother. If I'm doing a larger extraction I'll do a couple more pulls just to be safe.

I evap off my solvents under a vacuum, I can usually tell if there is a high dmt content by the level at which the solvent is so highly saturated it takes it's own color.

2nd extraction from 200g mhrb usually yields me less than 50mg.

Hi everyone I have a quick question. Just tried earthwalkers version of cybs tek for 100 g acrb. Got to the point in the tek where you do your 5-6 pulls from the basic solution. In the pic for the tek the naptha looks like it's yellow tinted. When I pulled it was pretty clear. I then took 200 ml of water and 50g of lye as the tek says and added my pulls. The problem being when I did it really didn't turn anywhere near as white as the pics for the tek show. I put the naptha in the freezer to precipitate anyways. I'm wondering if I went wrong somewhere, and want I may do to fix it? Could it be due to the acrb solution not being basic enough? I did use shredded bark cause that's all I was able to get and I tried to pulverize it to get it closer to powder. Should I let it sit longer before attempting another go at pulling? I guess the proof will be in the precipitate just looking for a bit of guidance. This is my first attempt at this tek, and only my second attempt at an extraction. My first was a stb, but I ended up with a whole lot of goo (very pleasant experience none the less). Also I think my stb solution isn't totally spent, could I use the naptha pulls from there and add those to a seperate 200 ml water and 50g lye solution and continue the rest of earthwalkers tek and produce results? Thank you all I really would appreciate some insight

You missed a step...go back and reread the tek.
You should put your pulls in an acidic solution first before basing.
That's why it's called a mini A/B...Acid/Base...then repull.

Thank you guys for your replies. I will try salting. I was thinking to do this with fumaric acid, so I'll go for it
But maybe I wasn't clear enough with my question..
Is the color of the solvent equivalent with the saturation of dmt (and/or other alkaloids)?


New question:
My yield has a bit of an orange color to it.. I have little experience with goo and DMT-Oxide, which I know can cause this color.. But the smell is off? It smells a bit like dmt but it haves a harsh and dusty, kind of smoked/burned texture to it.. Is this a normal thing for goo or DMT-oxide? Or did some of the bark matter definitely end up in my final product?

I know the easy answer here would be to re-X, but I like the effects of the goo and other alkaloids, so if it aint necessary I'd like to avoid re-X'ing

Yes sorry but you missed defat steps 1 , 2 & 3 !

You should read and reread it atleast 4,5 times then some IMO !

I did the first steps with hcl and then basified that. I was just picking up from that part of the tek cause that's where things seemed to be off from what was described. Sorry I wasn't very clear. I know the plant material is good cause I used it in the stb extraction.

Dear Earthwalker,

Did you use Taiwanese or Hawaiian acrb for your mega-super-extra-sesame-ultra yield tek?

IPA LSA TEK questions

Hey all, I've been looking around on LSA and its effects and extraction.

So I'm looking at the tek (https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/PanoraMIX_HBWR_Extract) and it says no body load and no nausea. That's definitely good lol.

And because I'm a why guy, I've got a couple questions that I hope somebody will have an answer for.

Vasoconstriction seems to be a definite issue with LSA ingestion. And the inherent danger with that would make me really leery to try a strong extract of it rather than say, just seeds.

Would the naptha wash take out assumed toxins that cause nausea (not so important) and vasoconstriction (potentially lethal)?

Next question is "Step 3 - Repeat step 2 [4x] (for votka and everclear), [10x] (for acetone and IPA)"

This is the naptha wash. Why would you only wash the seeds 4 times if you're doing the final extracting with vodka/everclear but 10 times if you're using acetone/IPA? I would likely go the Everclear route, but everclear is darn close to IPA so I'm just curious as to the difference.

So in the end, maybe my true question is: I've heard it takes a decent amount of the stuff to get strong visual effects. I would likely combine it with cinnamon/cumin oil, but what's the danger in taking LSA extract? Is there a danger? Also, if there is no toxicity (example, if the extraction takes out any toxins) then is an extract safe to take with harmalas?

Thanks for the time and consideration, and for putting up with my questions. I find TEKs are great for step-by-step instruction, but I need to know the whys of what's going on.

*update... I tried to pull again and then made the acidic solution and basified. Left it for awhile and just came back to it. Looks like a lot of fully formed white fluffy crystals suspended in the solution. About to do the final naptha pull and see what comes of it. Here's to hoping that I'll end up with some nice fluffy white spice

That was Hawaiian for that big yeild , I usually use Taiwanese but IMO Taiwanese is extra fatty and is hell to try to precipe without a mini ab , but the Hawaiian I used was ultra deep to bright red like I'd never seen before and had hardly any fat content at all !!

DO NOT ATTEMPT - This extraction is a thought experiment only, for review, to elicit comments and correct the author's mistakes.


1000G of Fresh A.Confusa powdered root bark is the source material.


1. 5000 ML of Distilled Water will be Added to 1K (1000G) of Powdered Bark and swilred until mixed. This will then be frozen, thawed in a 50C water bath, re-frozen, thawed, frozen and then thawed at room temp over night.

2. To this mixture 400-600ML Vinegar will be added until a PH of 2.5-3 is reached (checked with PH Tester). This will then be sat in a 50C Hot Water Bath for 1.5 Hrs, swirled gently every 15 minutes.

3. DE-FAT: 200ML of Naptha will be will be added to this mixture, and again swirled gently, and allowed to separate. The Naptha will then be removed, and discarded.

4. 80 MG of NON-Ionized Salt will be then disolved in 400ml of hot water, and added to 600ml of cold water. This will then be added to the kept Acidic Water Mixture.(6000ML)

5. BASIFY: 5G per 100ML of Lye (300G), added in 25MG increments every 2 minutes. This will then be placed in a Hot Water Bath for 2 hrs @ 50C, burped and swirled gently as needed, then allowed to cool to room temp.

6. 150ML Naptha warmed in a Hot Water Bath to 50C will then be added, and mixed for 1 minute, burping as needed. This will then be allowed to separate. After separation, swirled gently for 1 minute, and repeated one more time.

7. The Naptha will then be removed and placed in a separate container. Another 150ML will be added and the process repeated 4-6 times and added to the other pulls. Water will then be discarded.

8. DE-FAT: 750ML of PH 2.5 - 3.0 water will be placed in a new container. Saved Naptha pulls will be added to this solution and swirled gently. Naptha is siphoned and either discarded, or saved for future use.

9. 50G of Lye is added to 300 ML OF Water, and added to the 750ML from above step. This too will be swirled gently a few times over the course of a few minutes and allowed to separate.

10. 75-100ML Naptha warmed in a Hot Water Bath to 50C will then be added, and mixed for 1 minute, burping as needed. This will then be allowed to separate. After separation, swirled gently for 1 minute, and repeated one more time, then siphoned into a pyrex bowl.

11. Another 75-100ML Naptha will be added and the process repeated above.

12. Another 50-75ML Naptha will be added and the process repeated above, 4 to 5 times.

13. Naptha will be exposed to forced air until 1/2 of Naptha is evaporated, then bowl covered with cling film and put into freezer for 12-18 hrs.

14. Dish will be tilted on side, until remaining naptha is poured off, then foreced air will be run for a couple of hours.

15. Success?



DO NOT ATTEMPT.

Again, SAFETY is ALWAYS FIRST, and this is but a thought experiment, with mistakes most likely.

Please - any comments, corrections, or neccesary changes to procedure would be appreciated.

So you're looking for corrections in method, I assume?

For the freezing, I'd say use a minimal amount of water, just enough to turn the stuff into a paste. Less volume would make it easier to work with, and minimize chances of exploding a vessel in the freezer.

I'd reccommend with that much material, stir some pure ascorbic acid (probably a few hefty tablespoons, get it at a local vitamin store. It also helps with dropping the pH) into your acid mixture when you've got it all in there. That converts any oxides into straight salted spice, ensuring you get everything out.

Once you've soaked the stuff for a while, definitely strain it out with a tshirt or bandana, and consider another acid soak to ensure you've got everything. Usually this is done with boiling for efficiency and to make it happen faster, but is likely not totally necessary. Straining the material minimizes emulsions caused by particulate matter. Alternatively let the stuff settle after stirring and decant the liquid and keep solids in the vessel for further washing, but still filter it with some sort of cloth material to get the majority of solids out.

For the defatting, you can gently swirl, but there's no reason not to emulsify it by shaking it up roughly. Emulsions greatly increase surface area between the solvent and solution, but you just have to let it sit a bit before removing solvent is all. If you've strained it well, the emulsions shouldn't stick around too long anyway.

Do the defat a few times too. ACRB has a lot of fats. Also, for an interesting experience, you could just evap all the fatty solvent and you're going to have some goodies in there, although not spice (B-Carbolines and NMT, both soluble in NPS in both acid and based solutions)

For the salting, I'd say base it first and then salt the crap out of it. No need to be precise, just pour a lot of salt in there. It'll take a bit to dissolve if you're using rock salt (usually the cleanest you can get, no anti-caking agents, etc) but the more salt you have the faster and more saturated the pulls really. Pour it in until the salt refuses to dissolve further. It will mean less work and less pulls being done, so that's why I say load it on in.

For the based pulls, once again, if you've strained the material, and it's based enough, then you should be able to shake it, although your vessel has to be completely leak-proof to do this. Shaking is optional compared to stirring or swirling, but it's what my friends have done with good success. Also, I wouldn't discard the water until you're sure it's empty, so just keep that in mind. It isn't a pain to keep a vessel around a couple extra days, which you may want to do if your pulls for some reason don't work.

Easy rule is don't throw anything out until you're sure the process worked.

With those considerations (along with the mini a/b, which I would reccommend saturating with salt as well after basing) it should work out. Although I'd almost reccommend doing a small batch to make sure your process is perfect first.

The rest of it looks good, although I'll suggest that when extracting from based solution that you should extract until nothing is getting pulled anymore. For such a large volume, maybe use larger amounts of NPS than listed, but that's only in the name of efficiency.

And as always, safety first. Be very very cautious if you decide to shake the vessels. That's why I mentioned a proper seal. Getting either the acid or based solution in your eyes will hurt like hell and quite possibly make you blind. If it gets on skin, wash it immediately and neutralizing based solution with vinegar isn't a bad idea, although a thorough rinse with tap water should do it.

Hope this helps.

Thank you so much for the reply, I have adjusted my steps accordingly.

Do you feel the acid boil, and straining the material is more effective in producing a better result than just using the bath and keeping the material in solution?

Are you suggesting using just the ascorbic acid in place of the Vinegar?

MODIFIED:

DO NOT ATTEMPT - This extraction is a thought experiment only, for review, to elicit comments and correct the author's mistakes.

1000G of Fresh A.Confusa powdered root bark is the source material.

1. 1000G of A.Confusa will be wetted with Distilled water until a thick sludge/slurry is produced. This will then be frozen, thawed in a 50C water bath, re-frozen, thawed, frozen and then thawed at room temp over night.

2. 5000 ML of Distilled Water, the paste created in Step 1, a mixture 400-600ML Vinegar, and several tablespoons of asorbic acid will be added until a PH of 2.5-3 is reached (checked with PH Tester). This will then be boiled for 1.5 Hrs, stirred as needed. The solid material will then be strained, liquid poured into a container. This step will be repeated.

3. DE-FAT: 200ML of Naptha will be will be added to the above liquid, shaken well, and allowed to separate. The Naptha will then be removed, and kept in a separate container. This step to be repeated. Naptha to be reclaimed/re-used or evaporated for possible goodies. Acidic Water remainder to be used in step below.

5. BASIFY: 5G per 100ML of Lye (300G), added in 25MG increments every 2 minutes. This will then be placed in a Hot Water Bath for 2 hrs @ 50C, burped and swirled gently as needed, then allowed to cool to room temp. To this, 100-200G of Rock Salt will be added and shaken carefully to mix.


6. 150ML Naptha warmed in a Hot Water Bath to 50C will then be added, and mixed for 1 minute, burping as needed. This will then be allowed to separate. After separation, swirled gently for 1 minute, and repeated one more time.

7. The Naptha will then be removed and placed in a separate container. Another 150ML will be added and the process repeated 4-6 times and added to the other pulls. Water will then be discarded.

8. DE-FAT: 750ML of PH 2.5 - 3.0 water will be placed in a new container, along with another 50-100G of Rock Salt. Saved Naptha pulls will be added to this solution and shaken carefully. Naptha is siphoned and either discarded, or saved for future use, or evap for goodies.

9. 50G of Lye is added to 300 ML OF Water, and added to the 750ML from above step.

10. 75-100ML Naptha warmed in a Hot Water Bath to 50C will then be added, and mixed for 1 minute, burping as needed. This will then be allowed to separate. After separation, swirled gently for 1 minute, and repeated one more time, then siphoned into a pyrex bowl.

11. Another 75-100ML Naptha will be added and the process repeated above.

12. Another 50-75ML Naptha will be added and the process repeated above, 4 to 5 times.

13. Naptha will be exposed to forced air until 1/2 of Naptha is evaporated, then bowl covered with cling film and put into freezer for 12-18 hrs.

14. Dish will be tilted on side, until remaining naptha is poured off, then foreced air will be run for a couple of hours.


DO NOT ATTEMPT.

Again, SAFETY is ALWAYS FIRST, and this is but a thought experiment, with mistakes most likely.

Please - any comments, corrections, or neccesary changes to procedure would be appreciated.

I'd go with an acid boil x3 just to be sure you've got it all. And I'd say go with vinegar as well, just mix like water (make sure it's distilled or as low in dissolved solids as possible) and ascorbic acid so that it's close to the pH you want, then add vinegar and then more ascorbic acid to make sure pH is right. The ascorbic would likely do all its work in the first boil, but wouldn't hurt in the second and third boils.

But yeah boil the material for a bit, be careful because the ascorbic acid reacting with oxides will likely produce molecular bubbling. Ladle it out after boiling for a while and filter, throw filtered solids back in, and repeat until the juice is taking on less colour (likely by third boil).

In short though, once the material has been exhausted, best to take it all out and keep it aside (save until finished, like I said). If it's powdered, which it should be for the boiling, it will cause a big headache if you keep it in there when you're doing the NPS pulls, for both fats and goodies. The emulsions will take FOREVER to go down, I can guarantee that. So yeah filter it once or twice, squeezing all the juice out when doing so. This will save you a lot of time down the road if you filter it half decently.

Also, one more point, if you're using a glass vessel for the freeze/thaw in the first step, be careful about heating it when it gets out of the freezer. Sudden temp changes can shatter glass very easily.

Winemaker - You rock!

Thank you very much for the input into my thought experiment, your time, and the benefit of your knowledge. It is much appreciated. Further, the additional reminders for safety are very encouraging and nice to see.

Thank you.

Thanks earthwalker and cyb, I re-read the tek over and over and then over a few more time after that lol. Don't know what exactly went wrong, but I'm putting it on the back burner for the moment and will try working with it after I let it sit awhile. I did however in my reading catch that wonderful little 50 gram salt tek from cyb that was linked through the 100g tutorial. As fate would have it I had just over 50 grams of acrb left so I decided to put them to good use. I have a large precip dish in the freezer with some very milky looking naptha chilling. Everything looks spot on. Really really excited to see what kind of goodies come of it. Might not of been what I was trying to find, but I sure am glad it found me!