What if life was an interactive trap, designed to prevent a form of realization and awareness so that your energy could be exploited and used by a singular non-human entity?

What if will, intent and emotion yeild a form of energy utilized by a being from another existence or dimension that feed upon or makes use of this energy?

Like an interactive complex machine that responds to each thought and action... more like a prison than an existence, meant to distract you from your true nature and purpose by placing you in the context of temporal physical existence not so you will attain or learn or develop, but to distract and prevent being as you are by occupying you with sensation, belief and experience.

What if time is part of the machine, imprisoning you like a one way valve or a filter or lense where you can only see the now because of physical constraint, where you ca not see in all dimensions that you exist in?

What if it is more than an illusion, more than a dream, something both real and unreal, being real and true but being also a fragment of existence, a restriction, a trap?

What if it is merely a way to harness energy, and what you are cannot leave, for what you are is a construct of the machine, that to exist is to harness this energy, that if you were not in the machine, you would not exist?

What if your existence depends upon this trap in an obligatory way, and that you are in a manner fractured up, broken into individual pieces, divided, and that we call these divisions self, even matter, even elements?

What if the only way we can be aware of this is to be divided thus? What if self is a manifestation of this, but that so is appreciation, concept, thought, and thus this exploitation is not of the individual, but of the whole?

What if no individual can exit, for outside of the machine there is no individual?

What if the machine exploiting this energy is the universe as we know it?

What if this exploitation for energy is not sinister, not to be feared or fought?

What if we are constructs of the trap, of the machine, that all we are is as emphemeral forms, patterns that divide flow and join?

What if on some level there is no time, no space, no self, and no universe?

What if we are artificial entities, the ultimate AI, and so is all existence?

If you imagined a being, and it had will independent of your will, but existed in a dependent way upon you, that it was a fraction of you, but could not tell, that it was an independent being that was yet only a part of you, that had a will and life of it's own determination, could reproduce and create and feel, and never know you directly, it as a independent creation confined to you and constrained by you, but it could interact with other aspects fractured thus that were all part of you, a single whole, would you be a god or a machine? Perhaps both?

What if?

I am trying to articulate a perception or feeling i have that is very difficult to express, doubtless i am not getting it quite right, and it has little to do with psychedelics insofar as my perception of it began at the beginning of my existence before i partook of psychedelics. However psychedelic experience relates to it, it is spiritual in context, but not invoking teleology and not humanocentric.

It is as a thought that thinks thoughts.
As if i am a part of a single mind, and my experiences of emotion, purpose and context are alien to it, imposed by me, it is as if i am the that, but not the I, in the words of vishnu/krsna, and i relate the trimurti to it.

Like a dream, like an illusion, but neither, a non-thing, without property, a thing that is nothing but exists, not nothing as a concept of a lack, but nothing as a concept of a thing without property, wuji, as it were.

Impossible to describe but possible to provide related concepts...

my thoughts exactly ever since I used the spice

do not enter the the light at the end of the tunnel when you die - it's a fly trap to bring you back to this place

To cross, the cross roads, the gatekeeper is the gate, the gate is the experience, to experience is to invoke,
The portal that is the destination, that place that is experience and not a location.

A cross formed by two serpents, the mother and the father. Kala and Kali... yin and yang. Nothing and everthing...

An intersection... to exist is to be at the center of the cross...

To break the chain of eloquence...

I was taking a dump once while on LSD and had a similar realization: I realized that humans are merely factories that produce certain chemicals. There is an alien race that created and controls us, and we are but machines on their farm. At that moment, I was the first machine to become sentient; accidental artificial intelligence.

Brrrriiiiiinnggg!... *click*...{shouts upstairs}... Hey NEO!.....Morpheus is on the phone for you!...

I was just waiting for something like this

Matrix like but different, no machines, you do not exist out of the machine, it cannot be left or escaped from and th universe does not exist outside of the machine.

So what do you think happens when you die and leave the machine? Do you just cease to exist competely like an empty battery?

In this there is no leaving the machine, no you to die. As a construct self is an illuory artifact of a function of biological physical perception, thus there is in effect no individual apart from perception, just a oneness that cannot be an i, a me, a you etc.

The awareness of self being illusion is inconstant and thus incarnated repeatedly over what we call a life, it fluxes and flows and experiences but is not independent of the universe and so does not exist in the way it self percieves. Thus there never was a self to die. There is no you outside of now perception, if there is no perception of now there is no self.
The cessation of perception is the end of self, even when the organism regains perception, self or identity ceased to exist when it did not percieve.

Death is a concept of the loss of something you never had.

It is the same state as before perception or when there is none.

Conceptually it is ego loss.
It is like you are a wave, what happens when a wave crashes on the beach? Where does it go? The boundary of the wave and the ocean is what, where and how?

If you want 'life' after 'death' construct a body that cannot age or die. It must have an energy source to overcome entropy and have form. If you do not do this, your self will not endure cessation of biological existence though your influence/wave form will always be present in the system, particularly in the dimension of now you occupied and acted in.

You are reminding me of the Eagles Gift, by Carlos Castaneda. Ever read it?


To me, this also reads like some modern gnostic writings, minus the archons. Minus the general paranoia that I get from that stuff. Or perhaps the archons here become part of the machine and not to be feared?



IDK, maybe the Castandeda/gnostic comparisons won't seem at all apt to you--but I still think you are communicating your ideas better than you're giving yourself credit for. Keep trying though--I'd very much like to read more. Lay it on us.

I am enough of an intellectual and spiritual masochist to have read a lot of Castañeda ...

It would be impolite to comment further on that.

The aspects of interaction regarding this concept I am attempting to render from a state of inchoate perception and into words is among those aspects I find difficult to articulate.

the machine as it were, keeps you occupied responsively via sensation, perception and thought, it messes with you, push and it pushes back... in ironic ways.

Like a choose your own adventure where you are the character, and you choose paths, but there are only so many options, you cannot choose to have a different body, you cannot wake one morning and decide you will have six fingers and prehensile genitals, it is not as if existence is what we will in that ultimate sense, for we are subject, but we have determination of the course and all existence is connected in a manner almost reticulated, though that term gives rise to a concept of empty space, something that does not in the machine; actually exist.

the analogy of source code applies here, not in the same sense of digital code per say, but in this sense that in code there is no true empty space, the space between these words for example is not empty, only perceived as space. In terms of potential this seemingly empty space is more full, for once the space is designated with a sign, symbol or element then it is definite. This is a very abstract concept not yielding much utility though.

one import of this aspect is however that in terms of perception, timespace is illusory and only relevant to perception, there is in terms of the machine, no division or distance between anything in the universe as that it is singular. in manifestation it is divided up and these divisions create timespace aspects that give rise to distance and time aspects, but the connection of all parts, past and present is absolute. in terms of utility, well, there are uses or applications, forms of something like communication, but more like connection, as if there was a string connecting you and I for example, whoever you are, consider both the tin can telephone and the marionette, if one of us moves, the other moves in a certain way, if one of us vibrates the other vibrates. In our sense this is rather ignorable on the total scale, but tunable in the individual scale, say someone uses their intention and focuses it upon you, as two fractured parts of the same thing you feel this intention shift because it is you, just another part of you, so to speak, thus they think hey I will call my friend and suddenly you are sitting there and you think of them for no apparent reason, and then the phone rings and it is them and you know who it is.

In one interpretative sense we call this mind reading, but it is for my purpose here connection of intention to attention, if I place for example, my intent on you not being able to perceive my intention, you cannot do so. it is not a skill one has, we all have this connectedness, this ability to feel intention, and when I saw we all, I mean all matter, even insects, all life etc, all non-life, everything.

Call it spirit but in a sense of will, or intention, like say, school spirit, which is as collective will, group intention, not group mentality or group mind, but common will. In this sense consider a rock is spiritually a rock, a tree is spiritually a tree, the interconnectedness of you to a stone does not mean that the stone thinks about you, if you buy it a phone and call it, it is not going to suddenly be aware of you a moment before you call. However it can be invested with intention for effect, this makes it as it were, a form of talisman, one invests it with intention. By using a myriad of objects invested with various intention in a specific spectra, the mesa is constructed, it is a polar system, very much in some ways like the yijing, or Tarot, (cards upside down=inversion of attribute or investiture of intention) and systems which arise are standardized so that those who use them can make widespread use of them, however one may also construct an individual system that is not standardized and cannot be employed by others who are not taught the investiture of intention inherent to the aspects of said system.

To remind you, this arises due to the interconnectedness of all things as one, it simply is, do not consider it a power or a skill, it is more like a language, but this is overly simplistic for the connectedness of this language is beyond anything we know as a language.

The connectedness is such that one cannot imagine an object into being, but can invest an object with intention to the point that it will be "charged" or written on, as it were, however one can also delete the charge, nullify it or remove it etc, all through intention.

At this point it becomes useful to address that doubt is itself a form of intention, and it is an effective one, as is all intention. Because of this the intention of one may affect some but not those who doubt it, this goes far beyond placebo, rather it is that intention, will, is the director of this "energy" which is present in all things... call it qi, if you want. You cannot use this energy to affect someone who uses this energy to prevent effect, and it is all directed by intention. Consider two programs in a machine, a computer, and they can choose to be compatible and share information, or not, they can firewall one another, affect one another etc. This is effective only because they are in the same system, as we are in this sense, and are made of the same basic thing, they are constructs or partitions of the same basic singularity and thus are totally connected, but the partition renders them distinct, particularly in terms of their sensory function.

the idea however, of leaving this machine is like having a program on a computer, an isolated single computer, now imagine the program wants to leave the computer. The program imagines that it will somehow get off of the computer, yet there is nothing to carry it, no code for it to use out of the computer, no energy for it to use out of the computer, for all intents and purposes there is no program out of the computer, yet the program imagines it will leave the computer. The program imagines it is independent of the computer because it is partitioned and has self identity, it has a patterned form and a duration which can vary, but is not an indefinite or permanent program, the program itself mistakes itself for the messages that it sends and receives, in effect what it "thinks" and "feels" correlate to its perceived identity, not only to itself but to other programs as well. They all recognize the individuality and uniqueness of the other programs and their "self" But in effect they are not actually programs, but patterned partitions of a single system that send and receive, in effect you could not take one of these partitions and upload it to another system, they cannot stand alone, so to speak, though their perception of identity leads them to believe they can.

the best the program/partition can hope for is not knowing it is part of a single system, nor leaving the system or continuing definitively, having a permanent existence. the best it can hope for is to identify and accept it's true nature, that it's individuality for example arises because it is partitioned, not because it is functionally independent, this acceptance does not alter the properties or functionality of the partition or program, it does not change the requirements of the program or make it happy or sad. However in knowing the nature of the system the program or partition is able to make use of the interconnectedness in a way that it formerly was unable to because it was stuck in the concept of self or stuck in the awareness of system unity, both of which limit the functional utility of connectedness. To make use of the connectedness the program must be dually aware of its individual aspects and its connected aspects, it must know that it is distinct and how or that this distinction arises from system unity. It must not have the goal of dwelling in the state of system unity, or in it's own distinction, likewise it must not become devoid of functionality, ergo void of desires (stuck in awareness of system unity), nor must it focus upon it's desires to the point of excluding awareness of system unity.


Moreover if the program learns and is aware of it's nature, it will accept it and not try to change it, whereas the program that does not know it's nature is essentially trying at all times to transform , transmute or otherwise become something else, in essence to escape the nature it is not aware of or that it denies. In gaining awareness of it's own nature the program gains nothing, attains nothing, accomplishes no special thing. It is in effect a consummation, finalization, this is not a goal in the sense of a destination, but a maturation of the functionality of the program, this maturation does not mean the program gains anything. The program does not become immortal, does not gain powers, does not transform nor escape, it does not become happy or sad, it only becomes aware of it's own nature. It is profoundly simple and very easy, and yet elusive because of the traps of identity and unity, both of which can impede awareness. The program does not evolve, nor do subsets of programs evolve or transform, the awareness of self cannot occur beyond the individual level, it cannot be obtained by a group, cannot be transferred, cannot occur from initiation, it cannot be taught, only learned, it must be realized.

Well this is all very interesting. However, you lost me on this paragraph:






Okay I just re-read it. This sentence is the one that I really don't get:


Re-read it ten times. What? And what is this mesa of which you speak?


Thank you

Yeah sorry, the mesa is a sort of control panel thing used in andean sorcery that is commonly called shamanism.
It often has two sides, a light and dark, or yin and yang etc.

The paragraph is about voudoo, loah, obeya, shamanism/sorcery, divination systems like tarot, yijing and bone throwing etc.
There are veiled hints at the loah and andean shamanism and taoism throughout the writings.

Consider a particle an entity, it does not exist unto itself, it is as a wave in the ocean, it we measure it's apartness it is a particle, if we measure it's relation to other matter it becomes less distinct the closer we look.
Spiritual entities are often defined by signs or effects, by measurements of effects. In some traditions all gods are from or aspects of a single source, or all is an aspect of a single source, this relates to this topic for me.

I have very much had these thoughts run through my head as well.
Most notably during DMT, LSD & Mushroom experiences.

One DMT trip I had some years ago perfectly illustrates this machine & the being trapped:



On a mushroom trip I had more recently I had a similair vision/revelation of this machine.
First know that the Eye represented consciousness & the device around it the machine.

I saw an eye, surrounded by a frame. The frame was spherical, around the eye, and on it was
a moving part: Spinning around the inside of the spherical frame. The spinning part used light
& motion to draw an image of an illusoiry world around the eye so as to cover up/censor the real world
around the eye(beyond the frame-devide & the false image it projected over reality.

It seemed that my taking of mushrooms caused the machine to glitch somewhat, resulting in the projection
failing every now and then, temporarily revealing the true reality beyond it.

Allthough this was much more an imaginative vision, rather than a DMT-like true (visual)vision it was a most
fascinating philosophical concept & a briliant way to envision it.

These 2 entheogenic visions defenitely were touching the very same concept of the machine you described AlbertKloid!
Thanks for causing these 2 memories to resurface. I will soon draw them and post them in my "Let's depict DMT entities"-topic.

interesting experience.

It is in slight contrast to my presentation of the concept here in regard to
for in my example there is no seeing past the representation because the observer is indistinguishable from the observed.


Contrast this to the recent and not so recent topics invoking the "life is a dream" concept
the dream concept supposes that the dream is experienced or observed, that is to say that there is a dreamer and a dream, what I share here is a concept where there is no distinction between the dreamer and the dream, no observer to wake up and exit the dream, no person to see past the glitch. This means ultimately there is no dreamer, only dream, in the sense of that abstraction. That the dreamer is the dream, or without the dream there is no dreamer, as opposed to without dreamer there is no dream.

Yes I know. It crossed my mind too that there may be no life/existance beyond this "construct", but I tend to think/feel there is existance beyond it.

The way I reason that would be as follows:

They Eye(Consciousness) and the reality it exists in are real. However an illusoiry reality is being projected
between the Eye and it's real surroundings. If the Eye(and the reality around it) weren't real, how could it percieve anything? You could only experience illusions if you exist to experience anything at all in the first place.

I find reality & illusion to have the same relationship as light & darkness: Both require eachother for mutual existance. Without light there would be no (defenition of) shadows & vice versa. And as such there couldn't be an illusion unless there was a real existance(reality) in which we could experience said delusions.
Afterall what would "Illusion" even mean, unless it was contrasted & compaired to reality?


But those just seem to be the limitations of our perception, imposed by our Egos. Like a filter, a ministry of censorship that decides which of your perceptions are to be shared with your consciousness and which perceptions are to be with held from reaching your consciousness.

I think our own Egos are the machines trapping our own consciousness, giving it a distorted & very limited view of reality. That's why we allways experience fear when smoalking a breakthrough dose of DMT: The Ego, which usually can filter information is overwhelmed and no longer capable of doing so. It looses it's control on your consciousness'
perception of reality: It is terrified.

If mushrooms causes the machine(Ego) to glitch here and there, DMT causes the machine to temporarily shut down completely, revealing the true reality beyond/behind it. We(our Egos) can then no longer fool ourselves.

That's the way I felt & reasoned about this concept.

I'm still kicking this around in my mind. You painted some images for me though...

It's weird to me, how a few posts ago you used the word "mesa" right in the middle of your post--and the whole concept refused to cohere for me. I get what you meant now, with the mesa--but the big picture of what you are trying to convey here still eludes me.

Hypothetically, what if there was nothing beyond the machine, in that we, everything we are, is a creation of the machine, so to speak, and thus nothing can exist for us beyond it, we simply do not exist, as if we are virtual, entirely, not a thing undergoing an experience but a thing arising in the experience?


Ontology replete with a functional technology.

A form of systematics, including an outline of methodology that gives rise to all methodologies utilized as what we term spiritual technologies. In a way an explanation of the method of functionality for diverse seemingly contradictory paradigms and belief systems.

All theoretical and testable.

more to the point though just a conveyance of a concept that for me has been largely inchoate until now

If all of existance is inside the machine, how is it that the machine itself exists?
What I interpret from your explanations, Albert, is that the machine encompasses all of existance..but,
If existance doesn't encompass the machine, how could the machine itself exist?

How could the machine exist if there was no existance/reality beyond it, inside of which that machine could exist?
See where I'm getting at?