And yet I do.

Let me start right up front by saying that I'm not trying to solicit anyone into anything, I'm just seeking some advice. If you don't wish to read about my views, I pray you politely pass on by.

I've recently gotten it into my head that I'd like to be a lay-therapist of sorts, or perhaps some form of neoshaman. I would love to serve as a guide to others and safely administer entheogens in an inviting environment. I realize that this is something I will need training for, but I'm unsure who can teach me. I'm hoping the Nexus will provide some beneficial answers. I will go ahead and note that I do NOT intend to sell any entheogens, nor will I charge for my services, or expect any donations of any sort. I'd seriously like to do this in a non-profit manner.

I would do my best to work for a church, but the traditional entheogenic religions aren't precisely what I actually believe.

I'm a Pandeist. I believe, as the Deists do, that the Deus designed the Multiverse, and, like pantheists, I see God as equivalent to Nature. In other words, God became everything, and may become God again (but I really don't know, I think time just works differently than we perceive it to).

At any rate, I know I'm not the only one who sees things this way: a few of my friends in my area have similar thoughts. I just wish there was an organized social aspect to this form of spirituality. So I wish to start my own religion. Actually, I want to start my own temple.

As I live in the U.S., I'm aware that this is only going to result in some terrible legal action. But perhaps I can manage to do this in the most legal manner possible. I'd like to establish the religion by properly explaining my beliefs, establishing safe and strict guidelines where entheogens are concerned, basic moral beliefs, and introducing ritual to the use of sacrament (I do believe that certain conditions are required for a more perfect communion, after all). I hope to create the most basic dogma possible, if that is deemed to be a requirement.

This isn't me trying to find a legal way to recreationally do drugs. This is about me wanting to help bring spiritual and mental healing into my community, and helping to foster a healthy, open social environment. I'd like to learn the best way I could go about doing this.

I'm aware the chances of being deemed legitimate are slim. But this is my belief system. And I'm a proponent of civil disobedience, at any rate.

And if you think I'm making a stupid mistake, please let me know, but explain why I'm making a stupid mistake.

Any thoughts?

Interesting idea. I have thought of similar things, just because it seems so easy to influence people. Although, I feel confident in my ability to do something like this I would never do it due to fear of my own ability to not use the power for negative things.

I would change label "cult."

It carries such negative connotation.

I felt very much the same way. I found some people who feel similarly, and between us, we are working to build a new experimental spiritual system based around these very important substances. I can only wish you the very best of luck and hope that there are more people of similar thought, that perhaps the concepts might become more mainstreamed in the coming lifetime.
Only time will tell.
Jriilam to you, my friend.

You are not the first (nor will you be the last) to have gotten such thoughts into your head but I dont think the political climate is right for the appearance of a 'cult' with entheogenic sacramental overtones.

Become a therapist in the conventional sense; at least you will have learnt a trade which can be objectively assessed and quantified.Those who wish to pursue the path of entheogens will, as we have all done, manage to find a way.

I think the issue with this is, there will never be a 'right' time for such things to occur. I am prompted to recall the words of George Bernard Shaw:
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man".

It is very easy to convince ourselves we should wait for a fairer climate before we hoist the sails, but ultimately, we have only one chance to make a difference. We get this life, and we must do what we can to live as we would aspire to.

The Shaw quote is linear in its thinking and its conclusion doesnt seem applicable to the case in point."You can pick your friends; you can pick your nose.Therefore you can pick your friends nose".

In order to get entheogens to be accepted, we need to work diligently within the frame-works that presently exist; a maverick approach is less likely to succeed.

Using the sailing analogy, how can we establish if one is adequately equipped to captain the vessel?

It's an interesting idea, that yes, has been expressed here before. The fact that you would like to use these powerful tools to help others is a noble jesture. However, you may well encounter criticism with regards to your motivation.

You may have the best will in the world, though there is a possibility that you will be questioned as to whether you really wish to help others, or whether you only wish to serve your own ego, and give yourself a sense of power. Your cause is not helped by people in the past who have started religions for their own means, rather than others.

I strongly agree with corpus callosum. It may help you to persue becoming a therapist the conventional way. You will have a good career and will be able to help people daily. If there is a time when you start to use entheogens to help others, so be it, and I wish you well.

I personally, am not comfortable with the idea of organising a belief system. This is not to say that it is right or wrong, I just mean it is not something I would do myself. My own personal approach is one of an open and agnostic outlook. The universe/multiverse is likely to be so infinite and complex that there could be multiple truths, way beyond human comprehension.

With that being said, I also think it is important that everyone chooses their own flavour. So with that regard, your belief system could be perfectly valid. Others who resonate with your belief may also benefit from it, so in that sense it is not a bad thing. Pantheism is certainly an interesting idea, which also shares the infinte/complex/paradoxical universe of multiple possibilities idea.

Either way, your motivation is a good one and I wish you well. Just prepare yourself for criticism from people who do not understand what you are doing and the reasons behind it. It is a lot harder to explain such ideas to closed people, the authorities and the government.

Peace

Macre

It's an admirable idea, myself and probably many others had something similar going at some point, but after much deliberation, I've chosen not to do it. Why? Well, simply because language fails to express concepts which we see as fact during our entheogenic experiences, and also because this could attract unwanted attention. Instead, I've chosen to take a different path. I'm no longer arguing with people, no longer trying to make them think what I think it's right, because let's face it, nothing's right and nothing's wrong. Things could go easier for all of us, true, and that's why I treat everyone just like I would like to be treated and I don't take anything personally anymore. I don't agree with the "cult" term though, it carries a lot of negative connotations and can be easily misinterpreted. The best term is not naming it at all.

Our own behavior is what sets the example, and after a while of displaying consistent ideas and positive behaviors, people will start taking you more seriously without you doing anything about it. This works for me and it seems like people are changing by themselves, without anyone telling them what to think or what to do. Not everyone's prepared to make the change at the same time, but if everybody sees the same pattern repeating over and over, they're more likely to change than if someone forcibly pushes some ideology or another onto them.

Examples are set by example, it's the idea I believe in the most. The hardest example to give is yourself, because it means you're willing to change yourself for the (possible) good of everybody.

Firstly I would think long and hard...

I am not from the states but if you are;
The things that come to mind are:
DEA,
Gun toting crazies intent on witch hunts,
Religious backlash,
Un-educated copy cat groups
Mystified lay peeps' spreading mis-information like wild fire

Imo...you would be better served staying Underground...Waaay Underground.

Just 2c

rule #1

Your analogy is incredibly flawed. Your quote requires not only the complete misconflation of the term pick, as in choose, and pick, as in mechanically remove solids from, but also assume that the members of the union of two sets necessarily have all the same qualities of both sets. Which isn't true.
The Shaw quote describes a set, reasonable men, who change themselves, and not the world. He then describes the complementary set, unreasonable men, who refuse to change themselves, and instead attempt to change the world. Given that progress is change of the world, it is clear it never occurs due to the reasonable man, who does not do such things. Therefore, the quality of producing progress rests in the hands of unreasonable men, solely.

I hate to point this out, but just about the only way we've seen people succeed with entheogens is via this route, and navigating the early years successfully until they have proven efficacy. The UDV and Santo Daime both started somewhere, sometime with a small number of members and a handful of ideas.

No one ever chooses a captain of a vessel. A person buys a ship, searches for a crew, and is a captain by default. It is on the individual basis we decide if we trust a captain enough to sail with them.

Large amounts of energy and time would undoubtably be spent battling the powers that be and regular people who take offense to what you are doing..

if you dont want to be underground about what your doing i would suggest doing some travelling to intentional communitys that are able to hold ceremonys, and healing rituals without the need to jump through governmental hoops of forming religious doctrine to use sacraments, as i think rigid sets of rules are the exact thing that these healing ceremonys dissolve..

Like somebody already said here people on this path will find a way as they are the ones who are searching.. so build it anywhere and they will come! heck the pilgrimage itself makes the whole experience more valid you dont need to build it on peoples doorsteps to make them notice (they wont anyway if there not searching) even if thats the place that needs changing most, that way most of your energy wont be spent fighting youll have a lot less resistance and your community will grow quicker.

Im not suggesting to go and setup an ayahuasca retreat somewhere, a business model. Im talking about building an intentional community.. if you travel around peru, or costa rica, nicaragua, Guatemala, you will actually see how many people are successfully doing this, from many parts of the world and many walks off life. some real magic imo!

An interesting thought came to mind when I read this thread this morning... What if "Jesus Christ" (and Buddah, Siddartha, Horus, Zoroaster, Bob Marley, Dr. Seuss, yada, yada, yada, and so forth and so on), were nothing more than like minded souls, who at some point, had a SERIOUS BREAKTHROUGH tryptamine experience of their own, and through their excitement, enthusiasm, and new found reverence for unity, and love, were simply "admired" as Gods by their fellow humans, for their newly gained insight, and understanding on a MUCH more cosmic level???

If "take and eat, this is the body of God, " was sold slightly differently, such as, "take and vaporize, this is the doorway TO GOD ", I could certainly see how one could achieve a "following" of God like proportions... I'm totally down! Please point me to the dotted line to sign, but ONLY if through initiation, we EACH, get to become our own "Cult Leaders", to spread the words that this molecule has to teach, FAR AND WIDE my friend.... FAR AND WIDE!!!

Ah yes, such rigorous reasoning... of course, it assumes that the potential object of change is binary: Either you change yourself, or you change the world. You cannot do both. Nor can changing yourself have any effect upon the world (nor changing the world any effect on yourself). Clearly, this demonstrates a superior understanding of how things work in real life...


... in countries where ayahuasca was legal and had a long history of use. They are syncretic religions, Christianizing the already existing use of ayahuasca.

Things would be much more difficult if it's not built on an "accepted" religious scaffold (like Christianity) and in a country that has criminalized your sacraments.

It is not necessarily 100% water tight, I admit, but it illustrates a point. If you conform for the sake of an easy road, you aren't going to have the same effect as someone who steadfastly presents a challenge.



This is a much more powerful point, and I think you would definitely have to be looking, quite quickly, to find somewhere more amenable to practice, other than places like the US or most of Europe. The first is the very hardest, getting people to look at a whole new scaffold. But I think, with a suitably savvy set of people, spreading ideas is not as difficult as one might expect. Especially in cases of entheogenic movements, in which one can have a direct experience of what is being spoken of, whether one believes in it or not.

Memetically speaking... This kind of "healing" will likely be more exponential, like a virus, rather than through small selective workshops that only those with fattened financial accounts can afford... The molecule itself, lives quietly inside of each and every eco-system outside of the Arctic regions, and through hyper-connectivity of memes, will exponentially be unveiling itself to eventually EVERY last one of us, now that we have the means to disperse the information...

Once any kind of established "heirarchy" is erected to "dispense" the healing, we then head down the same roads that "Organized" Religion has, with needs for budgets, board members, and edifices beyond our own back yards...

This is "missing" the BIG PICTURE I think, and over complicating what need be little more than a plant/human relationship to foster our continued Spiritual evolution. There does't need to be a "From the Top Down..." approach to it as much as just EVERYBODY spreading the word, and sharing their sacrament, information and knowledge with as many of their loved ones, as they possibly can...

I'm TOTALLY with you in regards to the literal context, I'm just not sure if it need be anything more than a "grassroots" effort, that thankfully is not tied to any ONE particular organization, but rather we ALL can(should) empower ourselves to change as many people's lives as we come in contact with...

i admire your sentiment however i am just too lazy , thus i'll advice you to be a little lazy aswell and relax and enjoy your time here

why take such trouble ? why put in so much effort over this endevour ? what will you achieve out of all this ?

.

Thanks everyone for your responses and opinions. I've got a few responses, answers, and more questions for everyone.

A warning: I tend to over-elaborate (and over-apologize :wink, so I apologize in advance if I come across as talking down to anyone. I like to think of it as explaining things to the lowest common denominator: myself.



Yes, and that is why I chose the word to put in my title. Gets people reading. Since what I'm suggesting seems to me to be the precise definition of a cult, it seems accurate to me. The connotation sort of serves as a warning, and I'm all for promoting self awareness.

@corpus callosum I realize the timing isn't right, but I don't believe the timing will ever be right. I also don't believe that I can live honestly if I have to fear what I know to be true. I have no intention of hiding in the shadows any longer than I must; I'd rather be allowed to simply shine where I stand. I'm not trying to say that anyone else is hiding by not being open about entheogens, I'm certain there are those who don't have the need for the approval of others. But for myself, I would be living in fear. And how wrong is that?

You state that a maverick approach is unlikely to succeed, and you're totally right. But I'm not trying to be a lone maverick, I'm attempting to create a community. I'd just like to be an extension of the established framework.



@Macre We are at a disadvantage from the failure of previous religions. But I'm not so sure that's a good reason to try our best at establishing a more perfect system. I would love to pursue a traditional degree in psychology, I'm hoping to get my graduate degree in art therapy (art+psychedelics+psychotherapy is my hopeful end goal). In the meantime, I'm wishing to learn what I can.



This seems to be decent analogy for what I'm hoping for, minus the searching (I'd rather that crew to seek out me), and I suppose that my ship will have to be more of the land-based building sort.



I would actually love to start/join an intentional community. But I don't know of any that I fully agree with. Starting one requires resources far beyond my own capabilities. One day perhaps.

@Cosmicbenji The logical extension of Pandeistic thought seems to me that each of us are the consciousness of God, and thus should be worshiped and revered as thus. I truely believe that Jesus, Bhudda, and probably every other serious prophet have their roots in entheogenic experiences. Jesus fasted for 40 days, Bhudda for 49. I'm fairly sure that those extreme conditions induced entheogenic results.

As to why it ought to be anything more than a grassroots effort, I believe that religion isn't necessarily a dirty word (nor is cult). It's just an organized belief system that's social in nature.



Perhaps I'd be better off moving to a more accepting country to start this sort of thing. I have responsibilities here, though, and I'm not sure there is a clear reason to wait (I'm not saying that I'll be blundering forward though)

As to the history of my views, Pandeism has been around for quite some time. Many of "our nation's forefathers" were deists themselves. There is no universal doctrine for it however, and that will ultimately be seen as a weakness for some reason. I'm hoping to set up some formal doctrine, and based on the ideas of others and not just my own (I'd like to remain as inclusive as possible).

@Ringworm @iracema - The rules section in the Attitude page doesn't seem to be numbered, and the first one listed is being over 18 (I'm 21, if you must know).

I'm not sure if you believe that I'm talking about "selling, buying, sourcing, acquiring, pricing, trading or smuggling of drugs", because I don't believe that I am, nor am I intending to (I sincerely apologize if I am though). I'm not trying to be evangelical or preach, and I hope I'm remaining respectful. I admittedly could downplay my own theories.

@Jin I think I might appreciate your lazy post most of all.


Because I love the world. I love humanity. I want what's best for humanity, and the people around me. I believe love is the best way to bring about what is best for everyone. I believe that entheogens under the proper set and setting are the best tool to teach us. The the truths of the sacrament are self-evident. So what if I'm persecuted for my beliefs? Isn't everyone any way? But perhaps my work can help bring a more peaceful integration of love into society at large. Success will rely upon that perhaps.

There, I over-elaborated, as promised.

If you have a drive to educate others about your own experience, why not do something like what Terence McKenna does... tell as many people as you can about it, that are willing to listen, and let them draw their own conclusions from what you tell them about your own experience?

Or you can transmute your drive into some media or artform. You can do what Simon G. Powell did. He said in an interview, he was so inspired, brimming with Insight from his experiences with mushrooms, that he had to "get it out", so he put all that drive into making a movie! About Mushrooms of course.

Just some suggestions. Maybe you can piece together all of these ideas into something that works for you. IT really doesn't matter so much what you do with your drive, as long as what you do is Effective in achieving what you wish to achieve.