hi guys not sure if anyone has been growing Syrian rue seeds or interested but here is my growing experiences with this plant.

i used three different soils to see which gave the best results.

seed raising soil. transplanted into regular potting mix.
seed sprouted early however the roots did not seem to grow deep. plants seemed to fall over or die soon after seeding stage. about 3 died for about 10 sprouts. i used a 400w light and grew inside due to cold weather. seedlings would burn rather easy so a thin sheet was used to reduce the intensity of the light on the plants. water these plants from the bottom and keep well watered until sprouted then water only when dry other wise mold will grow in soil. transplant was difficult due to lack of root growth and how thin the roots grow. only 3 survived transplant so my advice is to not transplant these plants however get a deep pot and layer the soil so that the plant reaches the different soils as it roots grow. the plants are now well establish and bigger the the 1/2 sand mix however there are less.

half potting mix and half sand.
the seed grew well. not too far behind the soil plants. roots grew very deep. the root began to come through the bottom when still every young. the plant would not have been 1cm tall with 4 leaves however roots had reached well over 15cm down. i also used a 400w light with a sheet to reduce light and keep temperature warm. all survived seedling stage. transplanting was still difficult but most seemed to recover. only one died but this due to root breakage. this could be avoided if they were grown in a deep pot from the start so no transplanting is needed. plants are doing well.

soil and sand with lime.
adding lime to the soil didn't add any benefit to the growth of the plant or it survival rate. this maybe due to the fact that i have natural spring water which is already alkaline. I'm not sure if the use of lime will increase the amounts of MAOI seen in the seeds later on or not.

my overall results are that that it is best to avoid transplanting these plant if possible as roots are deep and very very thin. a 1/2 sand mix is best for plant survival however plant will grow much faster in plain soil. seeds sprouts from seeds were around 3-4 sprouts for around 15-20 seeds. i got 30 sprouts from a gram of seed. warm temps are good for growth but harsh light will damage seedling. they respond incredibly well to natural light. overall time frame for growth is 0-10 days to see first signs of sprouts, 10-40 days then transplant is needed.

when plants are established the best method to avoid over or under watering the plants is to only water when plants start to lean over( around 3-5 days ). Then give the plants a very good watering from above and use a pot with plenty of drainage. there is no need for the soil to be moist at all times or mold will grow so allow to full drain dry. once established they are very hardy plant so little attention is needed.

update: out of the three groups the half sand half soil plants are leading in growth and are the most healthy looking. they are striving in warm temperatures but still restricted to a few hours of afternoon sun light as a full day of direct sun light seems to be too much and plants seem to dry out. good news is that no plant have died since i lost a few during transplanting.

I hope this helps some keen growers.

Thanks for that post and the helpful tips!

I am sure that many of us have tried peganum harmala and failed - in my experience, seed germination is great but seedlings die shortly afterwards, often suffering from underdeveloped roots and rotting. I never managed to grow them to healthy, well established plants.

The term "regular soil" is not very descriptive.

For starters, how about a jar test? This will test us the percentages of sand/gravel to silt and clay in your soil. Also, what color is the soil? PH? Come on man, science! Regular soil indeed!

In my area there's the 4h club which will perform tests on the soil and let you know about nutrient content and what-not, but it is not free. A jar test will only take you 5 minutes, is fun and will at least let us know some basic data about your soil.

the soil i used was Yates Premium Potting Mix which i got at my hardware shop and i used natural river sand which was a much larger sized grain of sand, mixed around 50/50. ph was around 5 from initial watering but got to around 8-9 ph after watering which it seemed to do fine in. i think the two main points i was trying to get across was that using a half sand half soil mix will encourage the root to grow deeper and become better established and also that transplanting is where most seeds seem to die to try and avoid this by growing initially i a tall pot.

i will try and look into getting a jar test done and let you know the finer detail about my soil.

No, if you used potting soil, that tells us a lot. I was only requesting jar test because I thought "regular soil" meant you dug some stuff out of your yard.

yeah sorry mate. this was my first big post so sorry if i wasnt clear about certain things. but thanks for the feed back

Great post, thanks for sharing.
Best soil mix IME is 95% sharp sand+ 5% pinebark soil conditioner.
Though seeds will start in anything best growth is a heavy, snad mix.

thanks mate. yeah i heard of people even using just sand with fertilizer and lime and getting good results. sand and watering is the key to these plants. out of my three original groups the half sand mix is the most healthy and growing the fastest.

Isnt Peganum harmala invasive in some places?

Are there ways to grow it making sure it's not gonna unsustainably spread?

yes i believe it is so you have to be careful about what you are allowing into the environment. be sure to only plant in pots and never in your garden. be sure to heat treat any seed you wish to ingest or unwanted seeds by placing them into boiling water. this will not damage the contents of the seeds from my experience. in the case of small seed such as Syrian rue they are tough enough to survive passing through birds digestive system meaning seed can be transported many miles away so please keep seeds well covered or indoors some where away from birds and animals.

seeds are illegal in most countries however you maybe safe to posses and buy them if they are heat treated like in Australia. most vendors would be more then happy to heat treat seeds before they send them to you so you are protected.

please be aware of laws and environmental effect of you actions.

Under drug laws in Oz its as illegal as heroin and any useful amount can be deemed a marketable quantity. In theory, enough rue seeds for one to several personal uses could get you busted as the equivalent of a heroin pusher.
Ironically, killing the seed with heat as you suggest would increase likelihood of a serious bust as the viable seed for growing is a permitted import as defined by AQIS guidelines (its only a noxious weed in WA and SA), whereas as an herb or drug anything with 0.1% or more of ß-carbolines is grouped along with heroin and cannabis as an illegal drug under aussie drug laws.

Aussie laws are all sorts of messed up and often times what they bust people for and what they ignore are just a matter of what mood the cops in and how informed or misinformed they are.

places like shaman australis and happy high herb do sell them in local stores. treated seeds are excluded under Appendix A of Australian law, and are thus legal to trade and possess. some seeds are treated with food grade sulphur dust like at happy high herb or shaman Australis who sell the seeds in local stores. these companies are very aware of the laws and have gain a lot of bad media attention however they are still in operation because they know the laws very well.

Australia is more concerned about large amount drug trafficking. the legal system doesnt really have time or resources to deal with small amounts of seeds that 95% of people have never heard of.

Yes there are exceptions for growing, thats why I cautioned that intentionally sterilizing the seed as you proposed would increase the danger as it would render the seeds as exclusively herb/drug material and thus subject to the drug laws without botanicals exceptions. Fungicide or pesticide would just make it 'tainted' drugs.

If Oz is anything like america, cops love justifying raids that didnt secure what they were looking for. Thats where people are likely to get busted for a few ounces of rue seed or a bit of crushed woodrose in a glass of cold water.

Here is Syrian rue from earlier this summer about 1ft here.


What worked for this plant was transplanting a strong sprout quickly into a very coarse (sold locally as "sharp" )sand, dug from a gravel pit. This stuff works well with cacti too.
The large brown chunks are pine bark pieces sold as pine bark mulch or soil conditioner.
The growing box is 2' square and built over a double dug raised bed, plenty of drainage. A scant handful of 10-10-10 was added to the bed.

I watered it once a week whether it needed it or not.
This area(Z6) experienced moderate drought conditions.

I'm really into the challenge of growing these difficult plants though seed is easy to come by here.
There is a large community of Middle Eastern folks near my area and shopping around at their stores for white poppy seed I found large quantities of Syrian rue sold as "wild" rue. About $6 /lb.
Still, I'm hoping she'll flower and seed.
With the cold weather coming I'm thinking of partially protecting her from the snow which can be plentiful and moist. Sinicuichi, lagochillus inebrians and tagetes lucida overwintered here when I tried that last year.
These plants can handle cold as long as it's dry.

it looks like it is doing really well. they are a challenging plant to grow so you do need to put in a lot of time into care. i think a early transplant is really good advice.

is that from one seed or is there a few growing together there? mine seem to be growing outwards and not upwards but it could be to it being to young.

i will have to be careful because both summer and winter can be very wet here. the plants do look nice when they flower. do you have any pest problem with your plant?

Thanks.
I spent a lot of time with syrian rue in general. I had about 30 failures to get this one up. Once she got into the bed, I ignored her except for watering. I can't put my finger on it but some plants just don't seem to like humans. I figured I'd give her her space and leave her be. At least, until her offspring are ripe for plucking! (insert mad laugh here) Halloween you know.
She is a single plant. First thing she did was fall over and send up side shoots. All of my seedlings have done the same.
She's alot bigger now, I'll try to post a new pic soon.
Growing season is just about over here, though I'm hoping for a week or two more before a killing freeze comes.
I hope she makes it through the winter I've read they are tough plants, invasive in the right environment.
No pests to speak of. I was worried about slugs, I killed one the size of a vienna sausage the other day, but they avoid crawling over the sand. Much easier to munch my tomatoes.

How many days after exposing to moisture seeds start showing signs of germination?

...in about 11 to 6011 days, just plant enough and some will germinate. However, if one plants them in winter the young seedlings will sometimes commit seppuku.

Unless one places them under a lamp close to the bulb (until spring arrives). Also, like most of the birdppl, rue doesn't like to to be looked = stared at.....

So that's why my promising-looking seedlings died!

Next time I will assiduously ignore them

I've always wanted to grow peganum harmala...

I reviewed the posts in this thread, and some of what I would like information on was touched on a small amount, and I don't mean to be repetitive, but I've been needing information in this area, and this thread seemed like a good opportunity.

Would the "golchin brand" esphand seeds be viable for growth?

Would the seeds purchased from enthonobotanical vendors be viable for growth?

I've heard that peganum harmala is considered an invasive species in New mexico...This being the case, do you think it would be appropriate to scatter large amounts of rue seeds across my colorado back yard?

I was hoping that I could get rue plants to grow outdoor in a fairly feral manner by spreading the seeds through out the soil in my back yard, and allowing them to simply live and grow fairly independently, does anybody have experience growing rue in this fashion?

Would garden style growing be more suited to outdoor growing?


Or should I attempt a controlled and indoor grow?

-eg