Never in a million years could I say this as tactfully as this man. I wish I could let this dude author the majority of my internet posts.

http://spfaust.wordpress...ung-marine-that-53-guy/


Peace

A very well written, informative and uplifting letter!

If people read that, then they should be able to understand why the occupation movement is out there, protesting. And if they fully understand it, they will stand side by side with those occupation people.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Word.

the ringmasters of this twisted circus love dedicated hoop-jumpers. looks like that guy was well-trained. too bad for him, real patriots question authority.

Too bad it's because World War II abruptly ended all other major forms of competitive markets in the world that the U.S. was able to live in a decade of prosperity during the 50s.

Prosperity over necessity for some always comes at the price of despair for others.

A world of good well-being for all means everyone lives minimally.

8 hours work, 8 hours leisure, 8 hours sleep screams nationalistic idealism. The liberal is as mistaken as the marine.

Huh?

Just sent the letter to my teabagger of a father, so we'll see how he takes it.

Good Luck. I have a sister that is pretty close to that category. I sent it to her, but I can pretty much guarantee you should didn't read it.

A very well written letter indeed.
A part of me completely agree´s with everything that´s being said there. It´s probably my hart.

Unfortunately we have to be honest to ourselves here: everything mentioned in that letter is quite obvious, you realy don´t have to be a rocket scientist to get the point. Nevertheless, the majority of people in western society´s consequently votes for politicians who hold views that are completely the opposite of everything written there. We are currently in the mess we´re in because of the politicians we voted for ourselves.

The people themselves vote for politicians who cheat on them, lie to them and exploit them.

We´re living in democratic society´s. We´re all adults here. We´re supposed to be rational, mature beings.

Why would i feel sorry for this kid? If he himself apparently believes that he should be exploited and squeezed like a lemon for the benefit of a handfull of people who where born millionaires...if he himself thinks that being reduced to a piece of flesh that can serve as a target for afghan or iraqi terrorists, or sold to the lowest bidder on the labourmarket, is the most beautiful thing there is...who would i be to disagree with him?

The majority of people chooses to live in this mess. They have chosen W bush as their leader for two terms, they have chosen berlusconi as their leader for three terms, they have chosen blair, cameron, tatcher, reagan....

We have hailed capitalism when it was mostly making victims in poor countries. Why would it all of a sudden be so unfair if that same capitalism boomerangs back at us?

The man on the street is as responsible himself, as the leaders he chooses. In a democracy, our leaders speak and act on our behalf.

All the whining from both the left and the right about how the 'man on the street', 'joe the plumber', the 'hard working american/frenchman/german/italian/etc.' is a helpless victim is not gonna do any good.

The majority of the people here aren´t imbiciles: they can tie their shoelaces, they can read, they can find their way around in the shoppingmall.

So they should stop acting like imbiciles. They should stop cultivating stupidity as if it´s a virtue, they should stop being racists and stop being narrowminded assholes.

Seen 'der untergang'? Hitler says when german civilians are being slaughtered:' in einem krieg wie diese, gibt´s kein civilisten' Legitimated by the people who voted for him....

That´s democracy.

I think it's rather unfair to lump a bunch of the blame on the common man. You say, "In a democracy, our leaders speak and act on our behalf." This statement here is untrue. That is not the definition of democracy and that's because you came up with the situation as it stands in America, which surpise! ---- isn't a democracy. It's a representative republic. In a democracy, people get a say and get to vote on the issues, not elect representatives to vote on those issues for them. My guess is that if we actually lived in a democratic society, we wouldn't have half the issues we have today, and it would probably be more efficient at establishing a balance among the issues. So who should we blame on this point? We should blame the founding fathers followed by all of the politicians who came in their wake, none of which made any attempt to actually make our society democratic. Furthermore, if you look at the statistics, you would realize that there is an enormous number of Americans who don't vote (I don't) out of a number of reasons, one being disapproval with the system. So not everyone is voting for these assholes. Either way, if we rewind 11 years to the first Bush election, it becomes painfully clear that joe the plumber actually isn't electing these guys into office anyway, because after his vote (the popular vote) it becomes extremely obvious that the electoral vote will completely supersede his vote anyway, and there seems little that joe the plumber can do about that either (except perhaps partake in protest). Furthermore, many of the statements in that article may come across as painfully obvious, but if you look at the blinders and brick walls that many of these conservatives are looking at, it seems that appeal to common sense may be the only way to get any information through.

If america isn´t a democracy and people want to have a say in things, they should do what egyptians, tunisians and syrians do...fight for it.

In egypt, people actually risked being shot at by the police and the secret police.

In the west, a guy like mubarak wouldn´t be austed. He would probably be a popular guy who´s liked by a majority of people: berlusconi and bush where, and by their acts, their character has shown not to be much different from that of the average middle-east dictator.

Most americans supported the war in iraq, they where even renaming their fries and boycotting french stuff because france didn´t want to support their war. Everyone who disagreed was considered a traitor. I believe that noam chomsky even needed to be protected from angry americans who wanted to kill him for critisising the war.

Only when AMERICAN bodies started to pile-up, they started to change their minds. If no americans would have been killed there, most americans would probably still see the war as a heroic project.

If italy wouldn´t be virtually bankrupt, berlusconi would still be 'the man' in italy. All italians knew that he had bribed judges, when they elected him. They respected him for taking very good care of his own busines.

Our leaders are doing this stuff because we (the majority of the people) allow them to.

Within a few days there will be elections held in spain. The party from the old generalisimo is gonna win those elections.

I don´t know what´s gonna happen next, but i do know that the people who vote for this party are to blame for it. Everyone in spain knows what franco has done, everyone knows that within PP, he still has a fanbase.

I cannot see how i could hold them NOT-accountable for what´s gonna happen.

Spaniards can be afraid of the change in social policies, but as far as financial policies are concerned, the PP government is going to look a lot like a puppet in german hands. Of course, same would happen with the socialists in that aspect. The best thing that could happen in Spain is a big fragmentation of the votes. Spain needs dissent as close to the office as possible. Otherwise...

You seem to be forgetting or ignoring the success of Gandhi and his use of civil disobedience and the success they had in regards of liberating themselves from the British. We can't forget about the success of civil disobedience with MLK in radically reducing racism and changing countless minds in America. You may argue that there is still abundant racism in the country, and I would have to agree with you, but it is no where near the scale and form of racism experienced by minorities (especially blacks) from the sixties on backward through time in America's history.

Trav I agree with you whole heartedly, but I believe that many out there will never be able to understand this point because the majority are not willing to take the time to read and understand the facts. This movement will NEVER succede until the ethos of the movement are shared,understood, and valued by the majority. It has to be foremost in the hearts and minds of all the people who will benefit from it. You have a few people who truely believe in it. When I say BELIEVE I mean believe enough to demonstrate the moral courage to be counted and heard. Most of the people who truely need the occupy movement to succede are not standing up alongside to be counted and heard. Most of these people have been bought off by the fukked up establishment that is supressing the occupy movement.

I support the core philosophies and values of the occupy movement, I watch in disappointment, how the occupy movement has self distructed into a movement that no longer has much relevance outside of the occasional unlawful inhumane beatings that have been doled out by law enforcement during the late stages of these protests.

I have had the opportunity to work in and amongst some of the occupy camps in Seattle and I have to say that there is a minority presence that has been stealing the attention and credibility away from the occupy movement. I witness first hand the anarchists that have moved into the camps. I witness firsthand the muggings, assaults, rapes robberies, murders, overdoses, agression against law enforcement, littering, public urination. Need I go on? Does all of this BS properly represent the Occupy movement? Absolutely not! The media however clouds the effort of the occupy movement by the way they report those events.


I my simple mind, the occupy movement stands for equality in ecconomic and social oportunity. I hope that I have this right. I believe that many out there interpret this differently when the press spends more time reporting the criminal activities that go on in the camps and other negative aspects of what is going on in and around these camps. The image that is frequently portrayed is one that speaks of handouts and freebees and not of Social/ecconomic equality.

The majority of Americans agree and care, but, they dont care enough to be inconvenienced by having to understand and having to support. Its a shame because most of these Americans would benefit the most from this movement acheiving its goals. Its sad.

Americans collectively are really their own worst enemy here, fat, dumb, happy, and lazy. well not really so happy, but not willing to be inconvenienced. It is absolutely a cultural issue.

If everyone who would benefit from a successful occupy wallstreet movement would stand up unite and be heard, change would happen. We the middle/lower middle class America are the ones who finance all the BS that goes on on wallstreet. United we can effect it.

Enough of my 2 cents. I support the progressive movement in America and the endeavors of those who seek socio ecconomic equality. This, IMO, is an inherant right of all people. I know its not that way. Its a shame.

In order for revolution to happen in the streets, it must be first and foemost in the hearts and minds of the majority of the people. America is SOOOOOOOOO far away from this. IMO its sad.

IH

Yes. That´s exactly my point as well. And europeans are maybe even worse.

It´s gonna take a very long time for things to change, if they ever will.

The teaparty and the occupy movement are opposites. The other side could very well win. They are backed by oil-company´s, insurance company´s, pharmaceutical firms and religious movements.

In all fairness, if that was the stance the George Washington and his "army of traitors" would have taken in the revolutionary war, America wouldn't exist at all....America not existing at all --- a poetic thought

I don't see how they are opposites when it comes to motive? Maybe I'm a fool, but I see a tiny lapse of unification between what both 'groups' were trying to say.

The tea-party was against the government's corporate bail-out's.
The occupy movement is sick of corporate corruption(I think)? Which as we found out, a bit of that bail-out was purely corrupt(solyndra, etc). Though almost all of the money has been paid back to my knowledge, which is good.

They are/were(is the tea party still around lol) both fed up with whats been going on in the government lately.


I guess you could say they are opposites in they're approach and consistency.

The tea party would stay a day for a rally/protest/whatever then go home.
The occupy 'camps' stay weeks/months.

The tea party was organized with a unified message.
The occupy movement is ad hoc and has no exact message.

The tea-party was very largely conservative, with certainly a few swing voter's.
The occupy movement has no political specificity, but is largely liberal.


I think it's foolish to 'exile' a group of people from occupy solely on political partyism. When at the end of the day democrats, republican, inbetweeners, and falling off either sider's want the same thing's in life.

That's a little bit of an unfair characterization, I believe. In the first place, George W. Bush never actually won the presidency; the office was stolen, using the assistance of a partisan Supreme Court. In the second place, the days following 911 were an extremely emotionally charged time. If Americans did support the war in Iraq, it was because we were blatantly lied to. Facts were misrepresented (or just simply fabricated) in order to garner support and encourage complicity from the international community. We were told that Iraq was hoarding weapons of mass destruction, and led to believe that Saddam Hussein was complicit in the 911 attacks.

We're not all a bunch of overweight yahoos, stuffing our pie holes with freedom fries (although a typical gathering of teabaggy nitwits might lead one to such an assumption).

I agree, i´m exagerating a bit. Nevertheless, i agree with icehouse that we westerners (not just americans) are our own worst enemy´s.

There is something within our culture that keeps perpetuating these wars and this extreme corruption.

Just like in saudi-arabia, iran or russia, people are being brainwashed to belief that their political system is fantastic, we are brainwashed to belief that our system is the best there is...'land of the free, etc'.
I tend to think that democracy could very well be a good thing and it might even work sometimes. But we are brainwashed to such an extent to believe our system is perfect that it CAN not function, because of our lack of criticism towards it.

Democracy is a flawed concept in many ways. The majority isn´t always right for instance. And in a sense we are brainwashed to believe that even simply the fact that a majority of people believes something, makes it true, makes something a good or rightious decission.

If democracy is by definition a good thing, you would expect it to always have the best possible outcome. But both hitler and mussolini where democratically elected.
Can the result of their election (and what they did with this power) be justified with the fact that they where elected democratically? Not realy.

The right to vote may be an important right, but so are other rights like freedom of speech. Yet, through a democratic proces, freedom of speech may very well be abolished. There is no law (like in laws of physics) that forbids this.
This implies that the right to vote is a more important right than freedom of speech or even more basic human rights, since theoretically every human right could be abolished through a democratic proces.

So there are some flaws...it´s not as perfect as our teachers tell us at school.

Basically, it can only work if the vast majority of people behaves responsibly...and again, there is no law that dictates that this by definition always will be the case.

If you look at election campains, you´ll notice that politicians talk to the public as if they´re dealing with a crowd of total morons and imbiciles. The (supposed) dumbness or lack of intelligence is the norm in how (potential) voters are being adressed by both politicians and media.

So i see there is a tension here. People are given a huge responsibility by a system of wich the main representatives very much seem to believe that they are too immature to be actually able to deal with.

If we want to believe democracy is a good thing, and i think we all have reasons to want this, we must acknowledge that it can´t be a free-ride without responsibility.

If the majority of the people vote´s in referenda for lower taxes and higher government spending, like in the state of california, then this majority shows not to be up to that responsibility.

That indicates a crisis within the system that goes deeper than the political system itself, but that also transcends throughout our culture, economy, etc.

Society can only be blamed for the lying politicians it produces, but the system society abides by was corrupt from the inside to begin with. Saying that the people are able to elect who they actually want is ignorant, for it isn't the peoples vote that counts at all.



That dream of equality is that of blinded U.S. Americans who thought they actually fought and won the right in the 50s (the time of prosperity the liberal so dreams about), when in fact the rest of the worlds markets had to be destroyed to achieve it. The liberal writing the letter is as blind as the marine he's responding to.

The occupy protests were bound to fail from the beginning. From their approach to their so-called message, they had it all wrong. Instead of changing themselves and their own principles as humans, and then showing the world that's all it takes, they sought to play the blame game, just like every other human who doesn't want to take responsibility for their own actions.

If the NYC protesters were allowed to stay through winter, many would have died out in the cold for nothing.

I wonder how many of the protesters returned to a heated home to turn on their electric TVs to watch football or Glree after the tents were cleared away.

---

Any system of government is as doomed as the next, none is safe from corruption, as greed is a necessity for every follower under any systems reign. It's is natural for humans to want more than they need, but only to an extent. A system is still better than no system though, but a Capitalist one is far and away the quickest manner toward reaching self destruction.

It can be debated whether or not humans are naturally greedy, but it is set in stone that humans are leeches upon the universe. We view our own actions as destructive only because of our morals and ideas of the wrongness of death and decay.

Change yourself, see the beauty in all, and all will be okay.