Tried ordering some 5meo from a local rc, came next day... didn't work.

was it my method? i don't know... does it take as long a haul and perhap even more than one hit from a bubble pipe like spice? Hold it in forever? I tried many times in one sitting but got nothing but a headache and have not gone back since because was waiting for nexus to re-arrive to get advice before i wasted the rest.

from their site:

* IUPAC Name: 2-(5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl)-N,N-dimethylethanamine
* Formula: C13H18N2O
* Assay: 98% Minimum
* Appearance: Dry fine powder, off white colour
* Melting Point: 70.0 - 71.0 C (Degree Celsius)

looks right? I wasn't expecting it so fine. Same type of bubble pipe and method? Advice?

Well you may need to read the descriptions a little better next time your buying chemicals that you intend on putting in your own body!!!


Gotta read those letters very closely!!!

I'm guessing what you wanted was 5-MeO-DMT, right?

DMT stands for dimethyltryptamine.

If you read closer, you got dimethylethanamine.
Not only that, but the full chem name you have there also adds the "1H-indol-3-yl" part,

The full Chemical name for 5-MeO-DMT is: 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

there is no "1H-indol-3-yl" part in it either.

Here is the Erowid 5-MeO-DMT page.
Erowid's 5-MEO-DMT page


You are very, very lucky that a headache was the only side effect you received. you could have (or may have) really fucked up your lungs, or worse, you could have got yourself nice & dead!!!
What if this powder you smoked was poisonous to humans when inhaling the vapors, or exploded when heated enough.
What if you shared it with your pals and you all got sick or someone died because you gave your "5meo" to them?

One has to be careful when experimenting with putting foreign chemicals in their body, especially RC's.
If you would have been hurt badly, it would have been your own fault for not checking into what you ordered properly, not the company's fault for not knowing what you really wanted.
Its situations like this that make/keep DMT etc... illegal.
Also, there was probably a disclaimer you agreed to when confirming your order, that relieves the company selling the chem from any responsibility, if the person buying the chem fucks up themself or other people by using it incorrectly.
BTW, "incorrectly" usually means any form of putting the chem in the human body. Remember, these chems are sold as research chems only.

Its good to hear you are alright!!

WS

edit: true as person below says, its another name for 5-meo, it seems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DMT check out the IUPAC Name on the right of the page for 5-meo-dmt...it is 2-(5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl)-N,N-dimethylethanamine....i dont know?

My cat has noticed that synthed 5meo needs a fair bit more heat to melt and vapourise than extracted NN.

Right on!! Good to know.

Is there any chemist types around & reading this that understand the molecular make up of a "chemical name"?

I understand that di-methyl-tryptamine stands for a tryptamine molecule that has been metholated 2 times.

5-MeO-DMT, stands for a twice metholated tryptamine molecule that has a metholated oxygen molecule attached to it. (I think)
Don't know what the 5- stands for.

I don't know much more than that, as far as deciphering the chemical name goes but I would assume that di-methyl-ethanamine (or is it ethan-amine?) would stand for an ethanamine molecule that has been metholated 2 times.
I don't know what "ethanamine" is, but I googled it and found this:



I found it here:
http://dnr.wi.gov/air/em...NR438/pollutants/305.htm

Are ethanamine & tryptamine the same thing?
Or does the 2-(5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl) part make it the same thing some how?

BTW, I'm no scientist, and I'm not trying to sound like I know anything for sure, I'm just curious to know how those two chems would end up being the same thing.


Very Interesting!!

WS

I also dont know much about chemistry, but from what I understand the 5 means where the methoxy group is attached to (the 5 position).. though I dont know how does the number count of the positions is (where is the 1 position?).

That sounds right, if I remember correctly.

Anyone know how a twice metholated tryptamine molecule and a twice metholated ethanamine molecule can both end up creating 5-MeO-DMT?

...and in layman's terms if you will.

Over at Erowid, there is a page where you can compare the molecular structure of two substances to each other.
I've always found it totally amazing that N,N-DMT and Seritonin, one of the main conductors of brain synapses, are almost identical!!

Here is that page:
Erowid Chem Compare

(you'll have to pull up Seritonin & N,N-DMT yourself, the page goes back to default each time its opened)

WS.

Ok, the "breakdown" of the IUPAC name is as follows:

ethanamine is the "arm" of the tryptamine molecule (for structure of the tryptamine see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptamine. You will notice that it consists of an indole double ring and an arm consisting of 2 carbon atoms and an NH2 group)

N,N-dimethylethanamine is the exact same arm only with the addition of two methyl groups in the place of the nitrogen's (N) two hydrogens (H). The N,N-dimethylethanamine arm therefore is the one plenty of psychedelic tryptamines like dmt, 5-meo dmt, bufotenin, psilocybin and psilocin have attached to their indole group.

5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl: the numbers are the positions of "functional" groups attached to the indole ring. The indole ring has numbered positions around it where N is number 1 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indole and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptamine.

So, "5-methoxy" is for the presence of CH3-O- in the position number 5, "1H-indole" is for the beginning of the indole (also saying you that the nitrogen atom of the indole is not methylated or altered in any other way - it just has a hydrogen atom) and finally "3-yl" is to tell you where on the indole ring the N,N-dimethylethanamine moiety is attached, (position 3 of the indole ring in our case.)



I do not think this phrase makes much sense!



Well, they are not so identical, I would think that serotonin looks more like bufotenin than dmt. And even the slightest structural differences can have very profound effects on the activities of biomolecules. The most striking example I can think of is the difference of cortisone and cortisol. Their difference is a single hydrogen atom, yet cortisone is practically inactive whereas cortisol is its active form!


Hope that helps!

Yeah I'm no scientist, I've just read enough to kind of get it.
Thanks for the explanation!!


Thats the thing that has always amazed me! How two separate molecules can be almost identical and the smallest differences can mean the difference between normal thought patterns or highly psychedelic interpretation of those thought patterns. Or in the case of cortisone & cortisol, go from an inactive substance to an active substance.

The devils in the details!!

WS

I know, it is amazing - but in the end of the day it is the receptors' job to decide which one will bind to them or not and with which affinity. Cortisol receptor is sophisticated enough to discriminate such minute differences. And considering how things work in the very molecular level, we do understand how such specificities are brought about. Amazing nevertheless!

...and thats is where I get lost.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!!

WS

Thank-you, that might explain it because from the reports i was/am scared to do a major one like with spice in fear that i'd overdo it, 5meo reports have spooked me more than anything I've ever read. Without a sitter I am afriad of purging and choking actually since so many reports say they purged unconsciously.

Is it a salt form like 5-MeO-DMT hydrochloride? Vendors often sell it in salt form because it’s more stable. Salts are not good for smoking.

Try it sublingually. If it’s a salt, it will work sublingually. Try 5 mg under the tongue. That's an effective light dose for most salts of 5-MeO-DMT and a mild dose if its freebase. Hold it under your tongue for 10 minutes. After about 5 minutes your tongue will feel a little numb. If its freebase it’s going to almost immediately burn your tongue like jalapeños, if it’s a salt it will not. It will peak in about 20 minutes and last about 45 minutes if its any good at all. If it doesn’t work that way, it’s bunk.

The boiling point of 5-MeO-DMT is higher than DMT. DMT's boiling point is 60-80 C, while the melting point of 5-MeO-DMT is about 70 C. The boiling point is usually twice the melting point, so it's probably something like 140 C for 5-MeO-DMT. It’s fairly easy to smoke, but unpleasant that way. SWIM only likes it taken sublingually.

Useful as it is wikipedia isn't an automatically & continually accurate reference. I'd definitely want something a bit more authoratative than wikipedia before deciding to smoke or ingest a substance so different in chemical name from what I was looking for.

I think its clear from the above posts that 2-(5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl)-N,N-dimethylethanamine is not the same as 5-Meo-DMT so I would seriously advise against smoking or otherwise consuming that substance in any way without thoroughly researching that substance (isn't there a MSDS for it?) and considering the risks beforehand.

just wanted to clear some things up about the chemical naming... keep in mind i'm not a scientist... I have just done a fair amount of looking into the matter in the past as it was an area of confusion for me.

in this case, the two chemical names mentioned are actually the same molecule.

lets look at it closer: 2-(5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl)-N,N-dimethylethanamine

ok so what we have here is an ethanamine molecule (2 carbons[ethane] and a nitrogen atom[amine]) with a few attachments. the "N,N-dimethyl" part means that there are 2 methyl groups, both attached to the nitrogen atom of the ethanamine. As to the rest of it, at the 2 position, we have a "(5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl)" group attached. Now lets break this part down.

the main component of (5-methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl) is the basic indole indole ring here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indole). As was mentioned, counting starts at 1 with the nitrogen atom of the indole ring (the 1H part means there is a hydrogen atom attached at position 1). At the 5 position we have the methoxy group (OCH3). The 3-yl part is a bit confusing but for this application, all you need to understand is that it is basically telling us at what point on the indole ring it is attached to the rest of the compound (It's attached at the 3rd atom).


hopefully this helps elucidate things for some people a bit, and hopefully i haven't just confused you further :-P It's really not to complicated once you realize that the actual IUPAC name for "tryptamine" is 2-(1H-indol-3-yl)ethanamine.

Any developments Flyboy?

exactly what I was thinking.

could be turned into a free base by dissolving the salts in water, basifying with ammonia, and extracted with dcm.

well they may not be good for smoking per se, but isn't the idea here to vaporize? I thought that was the generally accepted method.

probably what he meant.
those terms have been so often used interchangeably, that's it's pretty much implied.