Greetings all,

Wanted to post a quick warning about POSSIBLE damage caused by contact with naphtha or possible contaminants in the naphtha source a friend unfortunately used. Approximately two months ago a friend made some changa using Spice dissolved in North American Ronsonol lighter fluid, set the infused mixture into a small pile of more or less powdered white caapi bark, and allowed the mix to evaporate for a couple of weeks. I smoked this mixture on one occasion, and unfortunately it is clear that this particular source of naphtha should NOT be used, as it contains impurities that apparently do not evaporate - these impurities weren't visible when the Ronsonol was tested for evaporation purity...a possible n00b mistake. I could taste them quite clearly, and after another puff two weeks later the batch was thrown out.

Unfortunately I've noticed over the ensuing two months that my short-term memory is not working properly. I've been forgetting short-term items that I used to have no problem with, and given my age I do not feel this is an age-appropriate memory difficulty.

Given the fact that this rather abrupt change in my short-term memory retrieval capabilities occurred not long after this particular incident of inhaled naphtha/contaminant vapours, I researched into possible effects of exposure to naphtha on short-term memory, and found a paper regarding neuropsychological effects of long-term exposure of naphtha seen in automobile workers. It seems that such exposure is correlated with reversible mild acute negative effects on neuropsychological functioning, including short-term memory, in the case of automobile workers consistently exposed to naphtha vapours. These levels of exposure were much higher than what I experienced, but they did not investigate the effects of inhaling burnt naphtha...if this is even possible (I don't know what happens upon combustion of naphtha but I could distinctly taste it).

I think as a collective we need to investigate this issue deeper; first off, has anyone else experienced noticeable defects in their short-term memory storage and/or recall capabilities? Would d-limonene be a safer route in this regard?

In my particular case I significantly cut back on cannabis use around the same time that this particular incident occurred; it seems that cannabis use is correlated with reversible impairments in short-term memory, so my short-term memory should have improved at this point. I did a search on cannabis and memory and found this rather hilarious video regarding cannabis constituents being studied as a possible Alzheimer's treatment...check out Prof. Tony Moffat at 0:34: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTzDpf_aRVE

Also any damage done was apparently not extreme, I'm functioning very well at my rather challenging job, which requires short-term memory storage and recall, and have gotten positive feedback from supervisors, but friends have noticed this impairment in my short-term memory. It is also possible that this apparent damage could be the result of other factors, such as mescaline/LSD/DMT/psilocybin contact, or even other factors I may not have noticed such as change in diet/nutrient deficiency. There is simply not enough research done on these topics, at least that I'm aware of. I'm concerned that this could be flirting with dangerous territory, and that any exposure to these items should be relatively rare in order to maximize benefits while minimizing risks. Any input folks?

Hmmm I don't know what it could be but I've noticed I have some short term memory problem. But the funny thing is people living around me that don't use any psychedelic at all - I've used naphta only once - they have the same kind of problem. So I started to think it may come from something else...
Which I can't quite put my finger on.

Yes, I have noticed a short term memory problem too. I know there could be a variety of reasons for it, but the most obvious one is the fact that I am taking drugs that induce a kind of literal insanity that has a direct impact on my brain. I've been thinking about it a lot lately and it is kind of frustrating because I wish there were more studies into the psychological impact of long term psychedelic use. I know there are a bunch of those studies like the one that looked at thousands of Native Americans and deemed the mescaline users healthier and happier than their counterparts. But, damn, you ever spend some time on a reservation? It seems like a third world country complete with abject poverty and misery. Are these the weekly mescaline users?

What is the long term impact of smoking DMT from A/B or STB extraction methods? No one has the definitive answer, but it's important that we are vocal and let others know when we have an inkling of concern as to these substances and our health.

joebono, it was researched in long term users of ayahuasca in urban settings, also with teenagers, and it showed no cognitive impairment, even some better results than the control group. Its all here in the scientific articles thread:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=1441

Ive always had short term memory loss.

Its just what happens.

I have read them all and I guess my bullshit detector is always on even when it shouldn't be. The people who do these studies are people like Dennis Mckenna and others who already have strong opinions on psychedelics - their lives are centered around these drugs. It's kind of like asking an Israeli Jew to tell me the history of Palestine. His viewpoint will differ completely from a Palestinians. Basic facts will be disputed and the "truth" is mixed up somewhere in the middle. I may be wrong but these studies are done by people with a horse in the race. I'd like some objectivity from outside experts who do not have preconceived notions.

Well joebono, I tell you, I have a horse in the race, but some of my relatives don't and they try to make it sound like : "See you forgot the name, you take too many things"
right, I think maybe I have. Then I concentrate on what is going on, and they usually forget a lot about where was this, or when is that. Then me to say: See ... It's not all about taking stuff, it's weither you're being concentrate on your surrounding or not that make the difference." You need to care IMO to make a mental note and remember things.
That come first in short term memory, before brain damage.

Maybe you should do a brain scanning and tell us what you see... Who knows ?

Do not take this as an expert opinion or as medical advice, but i would be utterly astounded if one time exposure to napthalene, burnt or not, could cause anything close to memory loss or otherwise measurable brain damage.

And please don't take THIS personally, but are you perhaps a hypochondriac? You seem to have done a lot of research and seem a little consumed by this. Sometimes these things are self perpetuating... i.e. Fear of not remembering can inhibit your ability to remember!

Nevertheless, thanks for the warning. Incidently, most use acetone for changa - evaporates quicker and to my knowledge has less (if any) adjuncts than commercially available naptha, whose additives are often use related (anti-rust compounds for camping stoves etc.)

JBArk the forgetful

Yeah I obviously don't know what the root of your issue is, but why would one use "Lighter Fluid" when you can use IPA to make changa? I didn't even know that naphtha was an option to be honest but I'm still new to this sort of thing.

But how can the investigator bias change the tests that were done in this investigation? The results are the results, the cognitive effects from ayahuasca regular use for these individuals has no relation to the investigator's beliefs.... Maybe you dont agree with the conclusions in the publication because that passes through the investigator subjectivity, but fact is that for the subjects tested there is no cognitive impairment.

What part of the research design do you feel is problematic?

I'm 99.9% sure that there are threads all over this board advising AGAINST using lighter fluid as an alternative to VM+P Naphtha. Ronsonal evaps dirty, period.

Even so, I very much doubt that using it would result in memory loss symptoms. Many others have done this, I read threads in other forums about it all the time. I've never seen a thread about memory loss though.

Do you ever smoke weed? If so that would be a more likely cause....getting older in years? another possibility. I'm around 30 and I find I forget much more than when I was 25. Big Changes, stress, or simply too much to remember could all be causes.

Aye true though I haven't seen any personal. Friend was taking the advice of the Quantum Tantra tek from erowid...they need to take that one down, it's no good. After this, all the more respect goes to Dr. Shulgin for his technical prowess.

As I said in the post I've cut back big-time on cannabis intake. The notable shift in memory storage/recall capabilities started about a month after this cut-back. I'll try to pin down some other possible changes in my lifestyle that accompanied the change, given what you've said.

I wonder if people who don't partake of cannabis or serotonin-receptor psychedelics tend to experience similar memory loss around 25-30. I've got a grad student friend in neuroscience/memory, I'll ask him and report back.

Also do you have any sources or evidence that "too much to remember" could be the cause? I know very little about how memory works.

And thank you endlessness for pointing out the "scientific articles" thread. After reading through Trout's Notes on Other Succulents it appears I have DMT and 5-Meo-DMT being produced in plants growing on my desk...

When lighter fluid is used as intended – in a lighter – I would assume that one inhales the combustion products of the lighter fluid every time they use the lighter. Am I missing something here?

I’m not advocating the use of lighter fluid for changa preparation (as others have already said, there are clean, readily available alternatives) but I can’t imagine that a few brief inhalations of lighter fluid combustion products can cause memory loss.

Let's say highly intelligent, well meaning, anti-drug people were to devise tests to determine the impact of psychedelic use on Native Americans or Ayahuasca users. I would be curious to see their results and hold their conclusions with the same skepticism that I hold Mckenna's, Halpern's and the gang. I would also be curious to see highly intelligent people who have no strong opinion about psychedelics either way study this. I guess I want to hear different sides of the story. Because science and all the experts cannot definitively tell us whether eating eggs is beneficial or harmful in this late day, I really have no faith that they can tell us anything certain about psychedelic use. Everything seems so damn squishy to me, Endlessness.

Why bother to debate this? Just use food grade solvents like d-limonene and you won’t have any worries.

I absolutely agree. I think the focus in here should be on food-safe solvents from now on. We now know enough about the extraction procedures to be able to develop food grade teks for next to any extraction. There's plenty of such solvents, we just need to research it.

UK Ronsonol is fine, doesn't have the extra shit the US Ronsonol seems to have.

But I totally agree - get some decent solvent for changa.

not all naptha is created equal i had a batch of Ace brand naptha that had an extra weird smell.
apparently they put some kind of rust inhibitor in it. results from using this naptha were totally useless.

Only some of the same brand have this smell its not a consistant thing but i know when its wrong.
The smell is unavoidable even with a mask on. I've used enough of it to know what its supposed to smell like.

someone could really go wrong with this stuff if they didn't know . Always make plenty sure its fully evaporated.

solvents are too dangerous to mess around with

when in doubt throw it out and start over

Sweet, no more toxic crap will be used for any Spice/changa smoked in my vicinity.

BTW had a fantastic day off from work, accompanied with a shot of espresso (a rare and potent occasion for me) and 15 drops of elemi oil mixed with honey and added to a smoothie. That worked far better than either agave nectar or the drops on their own; come-up was within 30 minutes and I got a nice second re-trip 10 hours later when I went for a swim/sauna. Seems like the exercise really brought it back in; swimming through the water felt like a return to our evolutionary roots. Such a cool (re)discovery.

Ron, you seem to be at least a bit older than most of us on here; have you noticed any change in your memory capabilities over the years?

And jbark yes the entire episode might have been self-programmed to begin with, though I have no idea how to determine whether or not I'm a hypochondriac; looking back I do have a pattern of panicking and jumping to extremes when things like this happen. Talking to my neuroscientist friend I understand that there are two main areas of memory problems; storage and recall. The symptoms I'm describing are clearly one of recall failure; the information is stored but can't be accessed immediately. The question is how to re-program myself to recall these items, if the problem is not entirely biological. Also I just looked at the title I made once again and see why you came to the conclusion you did...unfortunately it may be too late to change this, though.

And joebono, are there any "highly intelligent, well meaning, anti-drug people" who aren't completely ignorant about medicinal uses of the psychedelic materials? The evidence posted on the "scientific articles" site and elsewhere overwhelmingly demonstrates that the risk/benefit ratio for ones such as LSD, mescaline, even MDMA is low enough to merit application for certain patients. I very much distrust any researcher who denies there are some medical applications... Like you I'm unsure of whether their regular use is advisable, though I've met plenty of older, well-experienced cats who seem quite fine - particularly those who have avoided amphetamines, cocaine, opiates, cigarettes, and over-consumption of alcohol. This is all anecdotal, we need firmer information. *heads to "scientific articles"*.

Is there any food grade solvent other than limonene?