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How Deep Can Ayahuasca Be Experienced? Options
 
theAlkēmist
#1 Posted : 5/4/2019 3:38:17 AM

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I have a curiosity. I’ve had five Ayahuasca ceremonies till now. Can Ayahuasca be similar to smoking freebase or is it always a different experience? I haven’t broken through on freebase before (haven’t had the opportunity) but I have broken through on 2mg LSD, that was something else. Do different CYPs metabolise DMT differently in the lungs and liver? I’m getting some Chaliponga soon, I’ve had experience with Chacruna and ACRB. The 30g of ACRB was a much more intense experience then 50g Chacruna + 2g Psilocybe truffles. Both experiences were intense. The visual aspect wasn’t as profound as smoking Changa, but the sacred journey was much more philosophical and intellectual. Don’t get me wrong, still had entity interaction and everything was fractal-like, but no exposure to the intense visuals people describe on freebase breakthroughs.

I took much more knowledge away from Ayahuasca then Changa. I’m thinking of doing 50g ACRB next. I’m just unsure about physical safety, mentally I am ready to experience this.

Can I get some input? What’s the deepest people have ventured on Ayahuasca? How far can visuals on Ayahuasca go? Should I increase my harmalas?
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 

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TheAwakening
#2 Posted : 5/4/2019 5:08:56 AM

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I've experienced ayahuasca fairly deeply and had one particular experience which was basically a breakthrough but most of my ayahuasca experiences aren't as visionary as changa. In that experience the visions engulfed me and I forgot where I was, it was just the amazing patterns, at some point I blanked out, when I came to I was surrounded by beings who were putting me back together again and I slowly returned back to my body. The messages I received upon returning where more important for me though. In actuality though I likely would've been gone like that for anywhere between 5-15 minutes after that it reduced down to subbreakthrough where I normally am during ayahuasca spaces, aware of the room but also throughly deep in the experience too.

The visions are a part of the experience but they're not why I drink. Your experience reflects mine, I get a huge amount more from drinking ayahuasca than smoking changa and even moreso straight dmt. Much more insight and a personal relationship with Ayahuasca is worth 100 breakthrough experiences where I see the most amazing things but am left feeling like, what did that all mean.
 
SHroomtroll
#3 Posted : 5/4/2019 1:02:53 PM

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A good dose of caapi/rue or extracted maoi together with about 150-200mg will usually take me to a breakthrough experience.
However i find oral dmt to be quite hard to dose since it always varies in its effects.

Lately ive been using psilo mushrooms with extracted maoi for my ceremonies instead for that reason.
5g of dried b+ cubes gives me a good experience with a perfect amount of psychedelia that i can just handle.
But its taken me a few years to build up to be able to handle that amount of mushrooms.
 
dragonrider
#4 Posted : 5/4/2019 2:01:03 PM

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Because of all the different admixtures and ingredients, ayahuasca can be almost anything you want it to be. It can be as deep as smoked DMT, but it can also be as recreational as LSD. If you make your own brews and are willing to experiment a little you will discover how incredibly broad the spectrum of ayahuasca experiences can be.
 
Tony6Strings
#5 Posted : 5/4/2019 2:25:01 PM

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Just want to say... The title of this thread reminded me of a time I smoked dmt. As I was coming out this side of hyperspace I said something to the effect of "Wow, how deep does it go?" I was answered, " All the way. Deeper than you can imagine. Further than you would ever dare go. And that was just one lungfull. Imagine two or three. Imagine, and then bring it on! "
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"Good and evil lay side by side as electric love penetrates the sky..." -Hendrix

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
theAlkēmist
#6 Posted : 5/7/2019 9:14:02 AM

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TheAwakening wrote:
I've experienced ayahuasca fairly deeply and had one particular experience which was basically a breakthrough but most of my ayahuasca experiences aren't as visionary as changa. In that experience the visions engulfed me and I forgot where I was, it was just the amazing patterns, at some point I blanked out, when I came to I was surrounded by beings who were putting me back together again and I slowly returned back to my body. The messages I received upon returning where more important for me though. In actuality though I likely would've been gone like that for anywhere between 5-15 minutes after that it reduced down to subbreakthrough where I normally am during ayahuasca spaces, aware of the room but also throughly deep in the experience too.

The visions are a part of the experience but they're not why I drink. Your experience reflects mine, I get a huge amount more from drinking ayahuasca than smoking changa and even moreso straight dmt. Much more insight and a personal relationship with Ayahuasca is worth 100 breakthrough experiences where I see the most amazing things but am left feeling like, what did that all mean.


Yeah I have entities in my room, I don’t go to their space. Would 200g Chacruna be safe? I get incredible healing from my journeys but I’m also curious to experience what’s beyond. Not in greed but in humility.
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 
theAlkēmist
#7 Posted : 5/7/2019 9:17:20 AM

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dragonrider wrote:
Because of all the different admixtures and ingredients, ayahuasca can be almost anything you want it to be. It can be as deep as smoked DMT, but it can also be as recreational as LSD. If you make your own brews and are willing to experiment a little you will discover how incredibly broad the spectrum of ayahuasca experiences can be.


Recreational, really? What kind of dose for something like this? I’m curious about introducing a friend to psychedelia. Something I can sit with them without both of us purging constantly would be of interest to me.
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 
theAlkēmist
#8 Posted : 5/7/2019 9:18:13 AM

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Tony6Strings wrote:
Just want to say... The title of this thread reminded me of a time I smoked dmt. As I was coming out this side of hyperspace I said something to the effect of "Wow, how deep does it go?" I was answered, " All the way. Deeper than you can imagine. Further than you would ever dare go. And that was just one lungfull. Imagine two or three. Imagine, and then bring it on! "


Hah!
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 
dragonrider
#9 Posted : 5/7/2019 5:53:05 PM

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theAlkēmist wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
Because of all the different admixtures and ingredients, ayahuasca can be almost anything you want it to be. It can be as deep as smoked DMT, but it can also be as recreational as LSD. If you make your own brews and are willing to experiment a little you will discover how incredibly broad the spectrum of ayahuasca experiences can be.


Recreational, really? What kind of dose for something like this? I’m curious about introducing a friend to psychedelia. Something I can sit with them without both of us purging constantly would be of interest to me.

I personally find psilohuasca very recreational. And because shrooms don't need full MAO-inhibition, you could take a little less caapi than you normally would, if you worry about puking and nausea.

Of all the DMT admixtures, chacruna is by far the mildest one. Mimosa and chaliponga are definately more challenging, physically. Chaliponga is the most challenging source of the lot. It very easily causes deep, overwhelming experiences. ACRB is more friendly than mimosa on a physical level, but mentally it can be pretty overwhelming as well.

There are some traditional admixtures that do not contain any DMT. Piri-piri is said to contain lysergamides but i don't know if that has realy been verified. It does seem to make ayahuasca a whole lot more visual. I've had amazing experiences with it, but i always took it in conjunction with a DMT source.

Guayusa is also a traditional admixture. It is related to mate, and has a stimulating effect. It is often used by itself to induce lucid dreaming, so there may be something in it other than just methylxanthines like caffein or theobromin. I would say it definately adds something to the experience, but it is hard to define. It does tend to be worth it.
 
Jagube
#10 Posted : 5/8/2019 12:18:47 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
Of all the DMT admixtures, chacruna is by far the mildest one. Mimosa and chaliponga are definately more challenging, physically. Chaliponga is the most challenging source of the lot. It very easily causes deep, overwhelming experiences. ACRB is more friendly than mimosa on a physical level, but mentally it can be pretty overwhelming as well.

Interesting. I've heard ACRB is the most forgiving of them all (mentally).
My most challenging experience have been with Chaliponga. But not all Chaliponga is like that.

Physically I don't experience any discomfort from any of these plants really.
 
dragonrider
#11 Posted : 5/8/2019 2:15:43 PM

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Jagube wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
Of all the DMT admixtures, chacruna is by far the mildest one. Mimosa and chaliponga are definately more challenging, physically. Chaliponga is the most challenging source of the lot. It very easily causes deep, overwhelming experiences. ACRB is more friendly than mimosa on a physical level, but mentally it can be pretty overwhelming as well.

Interesting. I've heard ACRB is the most forgiving of them all (mentally).
My most challenging experience have been with Chaliponga. But not all Chaliponga is like that.

Physically I don't experience any discomfort from any of these plants really.

ACRB is forgiving indeed. But i think that for a novice it might be a bit too intense. It is pretty immersive.

I find mimosa and chaliponga pretty hard on the stomach. And with chaliponga i always experience a very strong bodyload. I usually lie down on a bed when i take ayahuasca, but with chaliponga i feel i realy need to.
 
tregar
#12 Posted : 5/8/2019 10:00:18 PM

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Great thread theAlkemist. Smile

In scientific terms, dmt is only stimulating 20% of brain 5-ht, while caapi is stimulating the other 80% of brain 5-ht, the two together stimulate 100% of brain 5-ht:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=84285

Mother Ayahuasca is the master teacher, the most potent entheogen on the planet. Dreamed her over 57 times, there is nothing else like her.

She will show you all of history, the present, and the future, she can easily tap into the Akashic Record which contains all of history, the present, and the future, it's like entering a University, she is the teacher, and you are the student, but she tailors the teachings to your own personality, she knows you well. Divine encounters are common, beauty is seen which is infinite and beyond comprehension, transcendence of this existence...paranormal miracles are common....she heals one of drug addictions and depression....Mysterious tea....some people take Ayahuasca to enjoy her just as one would go to a theatre and watch a movie, just for the incredible & beautiful experience, and that is fine too (just as dragonrider talks about above) Shanon covers this in his book, and saids this is perfectly fine, I totally agree.

Actual caapi or extract + actual hawaiian leaf brew together as a hot filtered and reduced down liquid brew, taken at the exact same time [mixed together, or 'married'] in dreams...just as the Shaman's do is extremely powerful, I treat her with great respect in dreams.

The price of admission? Just being able to down the 3oz of incredibly foul tasting brew. The book "Antipodes of the Mind" is the best book imho on Ayahuasca, everything is covered. Great resource for more information.

On my way right now in dreams with an 80g caapi + 30g hawaiian leaf filtered and reduced down to 3oz hot liquid brew, peace out.

Wise words from Palmer on how the actual brew form is more effective, all encompassing, stronger, brighter, fuller, clearer then xtals:

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer
Quote:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea (example: hawaiian psychotria) was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.

More info: thread "Positronic Ayahuasca brewing"

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=82030

Positronic Ayahuasca brewing

Table of contents:

Part 1: Filtering the brew
Part 2: Admixture: Hot liquid leaf tea vs xtals (quotes from Palmer)
Part 3: Contents of Visions
Part 4: Admixture Leaf (traditional) vs admixture bark (non-traditional)
Part 5: Thoughts on nausea & why brew several doses at once?
Part 6: The Dream
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
tregar
#13 Posted : 5/9/2019 1:40:53 AM

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The best part, is that dreaming Ayahuasca, the brain actually grows tens of thousands of new neurons. Articles all over the web about this, in the Journal Nature for example, with photos of the new neurons being created. It is speculated to improve emotional intelligence for one thing.

Substances like Ayahuasca, LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, etc. have been show in studies to activate the right side of the brain--the part involved with creativity, euphoria, visualization, empathy. They seriously light up that side of the brain like a neon light.

The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge. I certainly think it is.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
theAlkēmist
#14 Posted : 5/9/2019 11:37:31 AM

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tregar wrote:
The best part, is that dreaming Ayahuasca, the brain actually grows tens of thousands of new neurons. Articles all over the web about this, in the Journal Nature for example, with photos of the new neurons being created. It is speculated to improve emotional intelligence for one thing.

Substances like Ayahuasca, LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, etc. have been show in studies to activate the right side of the brain--the part involved with creativity, euphoria, visualization, empathy. They seriously light up that side of the brain like a neon light.

The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge. I certainly think it is.


Can you link to this article in Nature please? Love
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 
tregar
#15 Posted : 5/9/2019 9:15:30 PM

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Ayahuasca Stimulates the Birth of New Brain Cells:

https://beckleyfoundatio...irth-of-new-brain-cells/

The alkaloids of Banisteriopsis caapi, the plant source of the Amazonian hallucinogen Ayahuasca, stimulate adult neurogenesis in vitro, 2017:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-05407-9

Ayahuasca with caapi is also an entheogen you can dream and feel even better the next day after you take it, often for several days, as the mood lift from the caapi is long-lasting, Terence Mckenna talked about this in the book "Archaic Revival". I agree with his statement as well. You feel better than if you had not taking anything at all.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
ShamensStamen
#16 Posted : 5/9/2019 9:51:57 PM
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tregar wrote:
Ayahuasca with caapi is also an entheogen you can dream and feel even better the next day after you take it, often for several days, as the mood lift from the caapi is long-lasting, Terence Mckenna talked about this in the book "Archaic Revival". I agree with his statement as well. You feel better than if you had not taking anything at all.


I get this with too with the Rue.
 
tregar
#17 Posted : 5/10/2019 3:17:40 PM

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Good to hear same for you ShamensStamen.

Another benefit is that Ayahuasca (caapi + hawaiian psychotria in dreams) is not overly-stimulating, so if dreamed at 4pm, can still get to bed by 11pm to midnight, get plenty of sleep, and even work out the next day, due to no fatigue. Some of my best workouts have been the next day. Workout in a gym and on non-workout days, go running in the park for 30 minutes for cardio.

The refreshed feeling the next day is like a cleansing of the brain, a reset of the serotonin system.

You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
#18 Posted : 5/11/2019 1:43:31 PM
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While not traditional admix my strongest oral experiences were when I'd done 70ish grams of vine with around 5g mimosa. World gone, reality washed away into something I'll never be able to describe, inside/outside subsumed into one blinding force, no up, no down, none of that, who i was, what i was, all gone. Very powerful and profound would be an understatement.

Also the time I'd overshot drastically for myself with 270mg harmala extract and 110mg dmt years back, similar situation to above. Both experiences I won't need to repeat. Saw, felt, experienced something immeasurably powerful and deep. The feelings from those experiences are with me always.

As has been said alot here and by many people who over their years have hit the depths again and again - there's no bottom to this stuff. Comes down to how much you're able to physically/mentally handle/tolerate, that's it. Everyone's different here. Some can hang on in those depths, some just cant, they just black out from the intensity or don't remember much. It comes down to the individual, not the brew.

And sensitivities change over the course of using these things ime. Then dosage becomes less and less the deciding factor. Dosage is only part of the equation, same goes for the admixtures - only part of the equation. I soon realized that dosage is a very small part of the whole thing in terms of how deep these things can take you.
 
 
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