Great post Gordotek! (#482 post) & endlesness! (#491) This is not known by many, but Dr. Shulgin once wrote in the Entheogen Review that vitamin C is a "hydrogen doner". Is it possible it will aid the reduction of harmaline to thh in the brew's made by the UDV, Santo Daime, etc? Professor8 once mentioned that he had success using vitamin C to help do this, if you go back several years and read his posts here. I have no idea if this works or not. I would think it would be too weak, but know nothing, so who knows.
Interesting ijhadan and jagube on the river water, as we know that Amazonian river water is "slightly acidic". Good point Rhythmspring on plain water.
Caapi strain variety as theorized above is likely cause for higher natural tetrahydroharmine amounts. However, it is the 2nd largest alkaloid in caapi. Really good expensive lab equipment is needed to test for THH (like Dr. Callaway used) otherwise it will likely show up as additional harmine...and you will barely see any tetrahydroharmine at all in caapi...no amateur equipment, this is important.
THH is the "coffee of the harmalas" as ron69 used to state, it probably also has around the same serotonin reuptake power as ibogaine, mescaline, or acid thanks to published receptorome data, but we will never know as no scientist has ever tackled thh receptorome data for thh at SERT (only ibogaine). As Dr. Shulgin once stated "research on thh is imperative!" but looks like it will never be done, the forgotten alkaloid. Ibogaine and THH likely both work thru SERT (explained below) to block serotonin (remember dmt can not block serotonin on it's own, it lacks this important quality).
If THH binds anything like ibogaine to SERT (and it is most likely very similar) then 150mg of tetrahydroharmine is probably subjectively equivalent to around 150mcg of acid in terms of both mental coffee like stimulation and serotonin reuptake inhibition strength. When the brew is combined with around say 30g of hawaiian psychotria (equivalent to average 60mg of leaf actives) then a rough strength equivalent could be postulated for the brew in comparison to Hoffman's elixir.
Ibogaine binds directly to the serotonin transporter (SERT), so it does not have to target the 5-ht1a substrate pathway. This could be likely what happens with tetrahydroharmine, as THH and ibogaine have similar basic beta-carboline structures.
Thomas S. Ray's 2010 receptorome study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. LSD has a value of 3.73 at 5-ht1a substrate, and mescaline has a value of 3.61 at 5-ht1a substrate, dmt on it's own has been shown in two studies to totally lack a value at 5-ht1a (0.00), and thus requires either thh in caapi or snuff components to block the reuptake of serotonin, important teamwork going on.
Thomas S. Ray Receptorome study, 4.00=max, 0.00=min.
Quote:Ibogaine: 4.00 Sigma2, 3.57 SERT, 3.02 DAT, 3.01 NMDA, 2.88 KOR, 2.67 MOR, 2.55 Sigma1, 2.22 M3, 2.16 5ht2a, 1.96 M1, 1.72 M2, 1.47 D3;
0.00: DOR, 5ht1b, 5ht1d, 5ht1a, H1, 5ht2c, D2, D1, Beta1; ND: Alpha2C, D5, D4, Alpha2B, Imidazoline1, NET, Alpha2A, 5ht5a, 5ht6, 5ht7, Alpha1B, 5ht1e, 5ht2b, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, Beta2
ibogaine (inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor)
tetrahydroharmine (serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI)
2011 Thomas S. Ray study: Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
Quote:LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00
(these serotonin filters/gates/barriers/doors make up >80% of brain 5-ht & are broken down when 5-ht1a is agonized)
As mentioned back on page 22, Real life examples that occur when serotonin filters are broken down at 5-ht1a (or SERT is agonized by ibogaine or THH) AND the psychedelic molecule works in the place of serotonin at the other 20% of brain 5-ht (everything that is not 5-ht1a, example: 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria brew which contains on average 60mg of actives): music sounds better, infinite beauty is easily perceived, feelings of universal eternal Love, spiritual things and qualities take on a significance that is utterly stupefying, etc.
Dmt by itself has been found in the Receptorome study to not block serotonin...while the following traditional team players have been found to strongly block serotonin: 5-ho-dmt in Amazonian snuffs, 5-meo-dmt in Amazonian snuffs and the 2nd largest alkaloid in caapi (thh or tetrahydroharmine). All 3 are thus anti-serotonin, and no surprise: traditional.
Why traditional Ayahuasca or snuff's are different as compared to the Western invented (not traditional) straight dmt, which only agonizes 20% of brain 5-ht:
Brief interesting concluding remarks from a few authors who describe personally perceived subjective differences:
professor8 (here at this forum, see his vitamin c experiments: 11/1/2010):
Quote:Tetrahydroharmine has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day.
It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.
Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."
Trips (from this forum here on 12/2/2011):
Quote:As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms. I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more euphoric, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".
The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.
Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
Quote:My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.
Daniel Pinchbeck, "Breaking Open the Head":
Quote:For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given. Ayahuasca is my favorite entheogen.
Yage whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.
Gayle Highpine, "Unraveling the Mystery of the Origin of Ayahuasca":
Quote:The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book. The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light
Ayahuasca vine is not visionary in the same way as DMT. The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority”.
Patrick Lundborg, "Psychedelia", page 61:
Quote:A traditional saying among Ayahuasqueros is that the jungle vine brings powerful realistic visions, but that the chacruna brings light to these visions. According to the view of Western research, this is not the case; essentially the entire psycho-activity resides with the chacruna leaves DMT content.
Ayahuasca researcher Luis Eduardo Luna recently observed that when surveying tribal lore praising the jungle vine, he could find no traces of similar mythology around the two most common plant admixtures; psychotria viridis or diplpterys cabrerana, even though these DMT plants to a Westerner would appear much more important than the harmala alkaloids of the B. caapi liana.
Graham st. John, "Mystery School in Hyperspace: A Cultural History of DMT", see his interview at Reality Sandwich:
Quote:Halfway thru the interview, Graham recites an interesting quote from an Ayahuasquero who gives his insight into dmt alone vs Ayahuasca.
69ron:
Quote:DMT used alone, produces an intense visual experience, often very chaotic and fast moving, and quite amazing to watch. The visions of DMT alone usually lack meaningful content. The DMT visions are often just constantly morphing colors and shapes. Most of it makes absolutely no sense. Rarely will the visuals present to you a full blown dream with people, places, a story line, etc. But this does sometimes happen. But usually you just get a bunch of bazaar visions that are difficult to understand.
When combined, as in ayahuasca, the harmalas brings a dreamy quality to the DMT experience that makes it more like one is experiencing an actual dream, not just a bunch of fancy colors. With the two together, you have the visuals of DMT, plus the dream content of the harmalas. The harmalas are the boss here in this combination if used in ayahuasca proportions where the harmalas are not just used as an MAOI but is used specifically to allow dream consciousness to be entered by the user. DMT is just an additive used to increase the visual portion of the harmala induced dreams.
Authentic Ayahuasca, high in harmine, thh & harmaline, and low on DMT, is like entering a full blown 3D dream with dream characters, storylines, etc. This can be a life changing experience. It’s more like sitting in a theater for several hours absorbing a story that’s meaningful because its about you. You leave with memories of places, things, people, etc., and possibly a new view on life.
"Articulations" by Julian Palmer (bottom of page 77):
Quote:It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant (example: hawaiian psychotria). For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.
You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?
He answers his own question over the many paragraphs thereafter.
In his new book "How Soon is Now?" Daniel Pinchbeck mentions that Ayahuasca is his favorite, same here.
James Oroc:
Quote:Entheogens are truly windows to the sacred, and not merely curiosities that somehow trick and confuse our mechanical consciousness.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.