El Ka: I remember reading your explanation. It is certainly plausible that if water is at all soluble in naphtha then some lye could be living there. (SWIM told me there is a cocaine purification TEK involving acetone in which one must be careful to make sure the the acetone is completely anhydrous first so the cocaine doesn't sneakily hide in there.)

So the question then becomes: Is water at all soluble in naphtha?

In any case, it looks doing a wash with sodium carbonate + water is going to pick up the lye anyway, so do you think that adding that simple step to the STB TEKs would eliminate your residual lye concerns?

For me at least, there is a big difference between unwashed, rextalized STB (or even A/B basified to 13+pH) and A/B pulled at 11.5pH

I was not a believer until I tried both ways though. Not sure if it is NaOH or what, but with STB, even after a rextalization the spice burns the tounge when a little is placed on it. Quite caustic. DMT from an A/B at ~11.5 does not do that. It is bitter, but not screamingly caustic.

The smoke is very different as well. A/B at 11.5 doesn't burn anything like my first (and only) STB. I have trouble getting a good experience now with anything, so I cannot comment on the difference in experience.

Just chiming in with my thoughts. Never done a STB with a baking soda wash, but have had great success washing some of my older spice pulled at 12.5-13.00pH. It seems to work best when the DMT is still dissolved in the naptha.

Again, just my $0.02

LOL, very stupid me, sorry about that.. I obviously meant milliliters




Yeah indeed you´re not the first person I hear this from... but for some reason it was separating quite well in all the few extractions SWIM has been doing.. So either there is some other variable we are not considering that makes the difference, or I dont know what





Yes, now imo you are talking much more sensibly, Im happy for that.

So, what do you mean by ´pulp´? You mean just some kind of concentrate, as opposed to pure dmt, right?

Ok, I understand that the usual ´lazyman´ tek might indeed yield only that, and maybe from noobish attempts, anecdotes and random ´crude´ experiences, you get your argument of ´pulp´ from.

But with the washing step and the freeze precipitation and if needed recrystalization, it DOES come out pure dmt, clear clear crystals, which one could not claim its only pulp. So at least to himself, SWIM proves your argument to be invalid if the whole thing is done right.



Maybe let me make clear what I meant by ´psychedelic lessons´. I didnt mean to sound as if I think im ´superior´, but I honestly think all these substances are of great value and bring important insights that should be translated into action. One of these insights that seem to be very important and a base of the whole ´entheogenic teaching´, at least imo, is respect and understanding to others. This seemed to be very much missing in the way you answered. Getting angry and responding as a reaction happens with me too, with all of us, its an eternal struggle. It´s just that I felt in that moment you could gain something if I pointed it out to you.




I dont like ignoring people, preffer creating a nice relationship even if I have totally opposite views with that person.

If you think its a risky method, I respect you, but I still am missing hearing from you a good argument ´why´ it would be more risky than any other method, if one would do the simple and problem-solving step of washing with carbonate soda



Well then if both ways will give similar results (or so it seems), except one requires acidifying before, boiling and all those steps, and another simply requires a quick washing, then the choice for me seems quite obvious... From the researches i´ve been making, indeed the AB method seems very necessary for any plant appart from mimosa, but the special case of mimosa seems to work very well with STB+washing

Just for noting, a friend of SWIM always does the AB method, and it was arranged that both SWIM and him will show each other the techniques and make side by side, so an accurate objective comparison can be made.



not to be repeating but SWIM had both high yields, high purity and felt it was totally safe way...



Well, morals aside, I think respect is shown in many other ways, and I think SWIM has full respect for it. I dont think in an objective ethical sense AB is more respectful than STB.




Yes even if macroscopically NaOH solution is totally insoluble, one could still consider the possibility of ions of NaOH being in the naphta (Im an ignorant person chemical-wise, so forgive if im saying crap). That is why SWIM performs the washing up. You seem to use it as an argument that we ´HAVE´ to perform washing, but its not any better argument than if I said ´well, you HAVE to acidify´.. Sure for certain results, certain steps have to be made. The question is, are there any disadvantages in these steps? I can tell you, from SWIM´s experience, there is absolutely no problem with washing with carbonate soda, its safe, it makes sure there is no lye, there is no lost of spice and its a very quick and easy step.




thats what I thought



I didnt feel any any any throat burning at all.. I will try put spice in the tongue to see if it burns the tongue.. I guess this test can also be done by putting water in a bit of spice and ph-measuring it. Will do that very soon, but im sure with the sodium carbonate, this problem is removed (thats why, maybe this step is crucial for making STB teks good.. btw, not baking soda, but washing soda... baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate, seems to make some problems for people like lost of spice and so on)

What were you washing with?

Everyone will vary things in these recipes, but I take the easiest route aiming for high yeild and purity. I feel there is no need to wash, and no need for heat if using the A-B tek, keeping a close eye on pH's. This involves fewer steps to get pure dmt.

I say "Pulp" as in pulp-and-paper making, where giant mills make pulp from trees by cooking them in a lye-stew to free up the cellulose fibres. STB's work well if you don't have a grinder !

I think the A-B tek will fade into history, people will forget about solubilizing dmt in water, and folks will become accustomed to lye-stew teks which are frought with 'caveman' chemistry pitfalls (I concur with Acolon5 re lye-in-spice, if you don't wash).

Endlessone, this effort of yours to post another pulping-tek is what I have been noticing - nobody promotes the A-B method, nobody knows the difference, and details are ignored for making sure-fire, pure spice.

ok so it's final
it's of your OPINION that you think A-B is easier
some other people have the OPINION that STB is easier

And as for the whole pulp analogy. It's kind of like saying, well NaOH is used for cleaning drains, so it can't possibly be used for anything else.

I used a very cold, saturated baking soda solution. Used only about 20-30ml of the water on about 100ml of naphtha containing ~2.1grams of spice. Gave it a few swirls, and left it in for about 1 minute total. ~2.0grams came back after total evap. It came out crystalline, no apparent traces of the baking soda. I don't usually do this for 11.5pH pulled xtals, but to each his/her own.

The main reason I do A/B is to keep the oil contamination down.