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THC, Efficiency, and Health. (formerly the Cannabis edibles thread) Options
 
Touche Guevara
#1 Posted : 12/3/2009 9:51:18 PM
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This was originally just an oral cannabis thread, but I've decided to expand it. I know many people here appreciate their herbal medicine, and thought it might be interesting to make a thread talking about preferred methods of ingestion, but more specifically how best to use cannabis to mimimize the unhealthy effects of smoking as well as to get the most benefit from the smallest amount of herb.

Smoking
By far the most popular method of ingestion, cannabis is smoked in a pipe made of glass or less commonly metal, or rolled in cigarette paper or the leaf from a cigar which has had the tobacco removed. Many smokers prefer to use a waterpipe to cool and filter the smoke, and it is widely held that smoking this way is healthier. However, NORML and MAPS conducted a study (Link) that showed strong evidence that bongs were actually counterproductive. The study acknowledges that their focus was specifically on the ratio of tar:THC, and there may be other, non-particulate contaminates in smoke that are more effectively filtered by water.
MAPS Study wrote:
Surprisingly, the unfiltered joint outperformed all devices except the vaporizers, with a ratio of about 1 part cannabinoids to 13 parts tar. This disturbingly poor ratio may be explained by the low potency of the NIDA-supplied marijuana used in the study, which was around 2.3%.

Disappointingly, waterpipes performed uniformly worse than the unfiltered joint. The least bad waterpipe, the bong, produced 30% more tar per cannabinoids than the unfiltered joint. Ironically, the pipe with the electric mixer scored by far the worst of any device. This suggests that water filtration is actually counterproductive, apparently because water tends to absorb THC more readily than noxious tars. Like the waterpipes, the cigarette filter also performed worse than the unfiltered joint, by about 30%. Researchers speculate this is because cannabinoids are exceptionally sticky and adhere to other solids. Hence, any filtration system that picks up particulates is likely also to screen out cannabinoids.


This seems to show that the recent trend of attaching carbon filters to high-end glass bongs may be extremely counterproductive in making the smoke less harmful, since the user may end up just having to smoke more.

MAPS Study wrote:
In the meantime, the easiest way for most smokers to avoid harmful smoke toxins may be simply to smoke stronger marijuana. This strategy is apt to be more effective than any smoke filtration device. By simply replacing the low, 2.3% potency NIDA marijuana used in this study with high-quality 12%-sinsemilla, smokers could presumably reduce their tar intake by a factor of five while still achieving the same effect. Further improvements could be had by using pure THC or hash oil, which has been tested at potencies of 60%


Of course, a vaporizer is the best way to 'smoke' cannabis, since the cannabinoids are more efficiently delivered to the lungs without having to burn the plant matter and release tars, etc. Cheap conduction vapes function essentially like a soldering iron with a bowl that is enclosed in a glass dome, and nicer convection vapes like the Volcano work by moving hot air through ground herbs. Convection vapes are more efficient and less likely to burn the herbs, but can be costly if they contain a mechanical fan. Some units such as the Vapor Bros rely on lung power to draw air past the heating element through the herbs, and as a result are much cheaper and less noisy.


Extracts
Purified cannabinoid extracts have obvious advantages over smoking buds. The user must ingest much less material, resulting in less strain on the lungs or easier oral dosing, whichever the case may be. There are several methods for extracting cannabinoids from herb, which fall into two distinct types. Extracts are often made from stems and trim from grows that would otherwise be unpleasant to smoke, but when extracted provide a potent oil from what was essentially waste product.

-Solvent extractions rely on alcohol, butane, acetone, or other nonpolar chemicals to dissolve the cannabinoids. The plant matter is filtered out, and the solvent is evaporated to provide an oil of varying potency.
--Butane Honey Oil (BHO) is the preferred method for many smokers and growers. A tube constructed of glass, metal, or plastic is filled with plant material, and a filter is placed at the bottom. Butane is introduced via a small opening in the top of the tube, and extracts the cannabinoids as it makes its way down into a collecting dish. The advantages of this tek are that the butane is selective, meaning it will pull more cannabinoids and less chlorophyll, plant waxes, and other things that can give hash oil a bad taste or texture. The butane evaporates extremely quickly, which can save time but is also the main danger of this method. Butane is obviously extremely flammable, and people have been seriously injured trying to attempt this without proper precautions. An improperly constructed extraction tube can burst under pressure, fumes can combust, etc. This should obviously never be done indoors or around any source of heat or ignition such as a lit joint.
--Quick Wash Iso (QWISO) involves placing cannabis in a jar of some sort, covering with just enough 90+% isopropyl alcohol (or acetone), and shaking for about a minute. The mixture is then strained through a filter and evaporated. The same precautions as with butane should be taken with this method, as these solvents are also flammable and the fumes can be toxic and irritating. It is often helpful to filter through a loose metal screen and then a coffee filter to cut down on waiting time, since a coffee filter alone will tend to get clogged up. Often, the plant matter and solvent are placed in the freezer before extracting to reduce the amount of impurities picked up by the solvent. A short extraction time (shaking only for a minute) is also helpful in keeping the amount of contaminates to a minimum, and many people will do a second extraction on the same material into another collection vessel, resulting in a batch of very pure oil and a second batch of less pure oil that may be used for baking or making tinctures.

-Mechanical separation methods involve physically removing the THC resin from the plant material. The cannabis is often frozen to help break off the cannabinoid resin heads.
--Dry sieving is the most common of these techniques, and consists of placing the plant matter on a fine screen (such as a silk screen used to print t-shirts) and shaking, tapping, and moving the material around to allow the small resin heads to pass through the screen, leaving the bulk of the plant matter behind. This can be done manually, although recently there have been products released which allow the herbs to be placed on a cylindrical screen that is rotated by electric motor.
--"Bubble Bags" are a relatively new product. These involve a series of nylon bags with a screen at the bottom. The bags are arranged from loosest to tightest screen and placed in a bucket. Ice water is added with cannabis material, and mixed violently. As the bags are removed, each screen will retain a progressively smaller series of particulate matter. So the first bag will pull out most of the plant material, while the subsequent bags will have finer and finer consistency. The cannabinoid resin heads will become more concentrated in these finer consistency extracts.


Edibles
People have already been very helpful on this topic before I edited the OP, so I'll try to condense some of that information here.
۩ wrote:
You can do a double boiler with some coconut oil. Infuse it so that gel caps could be consumed. GREAT for fevers and muscle pain (it can also be applied externally, fried with, etc)!!

DMTripper wrote:
I have a book on .pdf called The Art And Science Of Cooking With Cannabis and it's a great read. I haven't had the opportunity to try out any recipes but the guy who wrote it seems to know what he's talking about.

Erowid: http://www.erowid.org/li...ooking_with_cannabis.pdf

(quote slightly edited for conciseness)

Tinctures are another method of oral ingestion. Cannabis is placed in alcohol, high-fat oil, or vegetable glycerine for an extended period of time, filtered, and then consumed orally or sublingually. I have no experience here, so input is appreciated.


Topics for Discussion:
-What are some ways to increase the efficiency of various ingestion methods? For example, if you were stranded on a desert island with only 10 grams of cannabis and the things an average person could get from a kitchen or hardware store, how would you make it last the longest?

-This topic usually causes a round of elitism and disdain, but it may be worth exploring. What is the composition of the resin that accumulates on cannabis pipes? Anecdotal evidence shows it to be psychoactive, but it seems that harmful components of smoke will be present in higher concentrations. Is there a way to purify this extract? Some things to consider: THC is not water soluble, but are tars and other contaminates? Bongs and such are commonly cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and kosher salt. Salt can be used to separate isopropyl alcohol and water. Could the isopropyl layer be decanted after cleaning a bong, and then further purified with something such as activated charcoal?

-The MAPS study suggests that pure H2O may not be ideal for use in bongs, and that other liquids may reduce the filtration of THC. Could saltwater or other liquids be more helpful here in either reducing the solubility of THC in the mixture or making it less able to stick to something before reaching the lungs?

Thanks for reading, and have a nice day. Suggests, comments, and criticisms are welcome.
 

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۩
#2 Posted : 12/3/2009 9:53:57 PM

.

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You can do a double boiler with some coconut oil. Infuse it so that gel caps could be consumed. GREAT for fevers and muscle pain (it can also be applied externally, fried with, etc)!!

 
Touche Guevara
#3 Posted : 12/3/2009 10:05:36 PM
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So just use a double boiler to keep the temperature below 100C, let simmer for awhile, strain and serve? SWIM tried leaving a tiny piece of iso-hash in some olive oil to see if it would dissolve, but after poor results now assumes that heat and probably a higher-fat oil are needed.
 
imPsimon
#4 Posted : 12/3/2009 10:29:43 PM

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Me and my friends makes Swedish chocolate balls.

In many parts of Sweden they are called "negerbollar" which translates to "negro balls" =)

The only thing you have to do that's different from the original recipe is
melt 3-4 grams of hash into the butter and then let it harden again in the
fridge or freezer to "original state".

Here's a recipe I found that's in english

http://allrecipes.com/re...oconut-balls/detail.aspx

They are best enjoyed cold and just one usually lasts for hours=)

note: I dont know how many chocolate balls that recipe is for, we usually take 4 grams of hash
for 15-20 chocolate balls.

Just search for "swedish chocolate balls recipe" and you'll find plenty of other recipes=)

...just saw that in that link you can edit how many servings you want and it calculates
the correct amount of stuff you need...
imPsimon attached the following image(s):
negerbollar.jpg (187kb) downloaded 158 time(s).
 
Dimitrius
#5 Posted : 12/3/2009 10:44:33 PM

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Ghee (clarified butter) can also be used, in the same way as House recommends using coconut oil.

After the ghee, or coconut oil, has been strained and cooled somewhat, one can add a bit of honey and mix it in before the ghee/coconut oil thickens. But not too much. I'd say AT THE MOST, 1 part honey to 3 parts ghee.

What would you do with this? You can take a spoonful directly and follow it with a warm/hot drink. It can be stirred into warm milk...veeery soothing. It can be cooked with or spread onto toast. You can stick it up your hoo-hoo...you know, whatever. Laughing

If you don't know what ghee is....What is ghee?

You can find ready-made ghee at health food shops. I highly recommend it over regular butter. It taste perfect, it's actually good for you and no longer contains any lactose, for those dairy-sensitive types...and it's a great carrier of medicines. Also, it can be left out at room temp provided no water is introduced into it.


"Within your heart is a lotus, and within this lotus is a diamond. This diamond is the source of creation, and in all the creation, there is only one lotus."

"Only from the Heart can you touch the sky." ~ Rumi
 
'Coatl
#6 Posted : 12/3/2009 10:57:30 PM

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I've heard you can chew Cannabis for sublingual or buccal absorption.

WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Madcap
#7 Posted : 12/4/2009 1:21:43 AM

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You can make "green dragon" tinctures with everclear (high proof booze) or "golden dragon" using vaporizer leftovers. Vaporizer leftovers are great for making weed butter that you can then use to make my all time favorite sick (cold or flu) snack.....cinnamon toast. The doobage adds a unique flavor, but it goes well with everything I've thrown it at.

Here is a video that will take you through the process.

I haven't made the tinctures personally, but I have sampled them.

Will try out the ghee.... saw how to make it on food network , now I have a reason.

Peaches
All posts written by Madcap should be regarded as fiction.
 
DMTripper
#8 Posted : 12/4/2009 6:04:55 PM

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I have a book on .pdf called The Art And Science Of Cooking With Cannabis and it's a great read. I haven't had the opportunity to try out any recipes but the guy who wrote it seems to know what he's talking about.
This book is not in the files section on the Nexus. How can I upload it? Should I contact The traveller?

Edit:
Found it on Erowid Smile

http://www.erowid.org/li...ooking_with_cannabis.pdf
––––––

DMTripper is a fictional character therefore everything he says here must be fiction.
I mean, who really believes there is such a place as Hyperspace!!

 
shoe
#9 Posted : 12/4/2009 6:57:58 PM

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Im glad everyone has covered the cannabutter method Smile With cannabutter you can make prettymuch everything.
but you know what's best?

as claude the goldfish (from american dad) would say .... Ohhhhh..... BROWNIES !!!!!!!!
shoe

ॐ भूर्भुव: स्व: तत्सवितुर्वरेण्यं । भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि, धीयो यो न: प्रचोदयात्
Love, Gratittude, Compassion, Fearlessness!
 
Touche Guevara
#10 Posted : 12/9/2009 8:47:09 PM
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Hey guys, I edited the OP to broaden the scope of discussion. Check it out!
 
jamie
#11 Posted : 12/10/2009 2:09:12 AM

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someone posted this in a cannabis thread on my student forums for school..

"Genetic Modified Seeds
The study above states that marijuana prevents nerve cell deaths. However, I've seen scans of the brains of people who are regular marijuana users and their brains look unhealthy with holes in the brain's tissues and their brain chemistry is imbalanced.

A recent 2009 study shows Mary Jane disrupts brain development and damages various regions of the brain in teens and young adults: http://www.sciencedaily....2009/02/090202175105.htm

Another study concluded that chronic THC exposure causes cognitive declines (loss of nerve cells) normally associated with aging to occur more quickly: http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjp_faq17.htm
For these reasons, I think it is unconscionable to recommend the use of marijuana to any person of any age. The deterioration of the brain cells is due in part to the genetically modified substances in the plant as well as to the smoke which is inhaled. Note that there is not the same level of brain damage from simply smoking tobacco cigarettes. (This statement does not consider other dangers involved in tobacco smoking nor recommends it as an alternative.) Chemically derived genetic modifications are neuro-excito-toxins which can damage the liver cells and the brain cells and are far more dangerous than most people think. I can't justify recommending marijuana when there are so many other useful herbs out there that are more powerful in their natural form and less toxic. "


Can someone with more knowledge of this stuff look at those links and offer an opinion..sounds like BS to me..they are claiming that cannabis causes holes in the brain tissue..
Long live the unwoke.
 
'Coatl
#12 Posted : 12/10/2009 2:32:29 AM

Teotzlcoatl


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Quote:
The MAPS study suggests that pure H2O may not be ideal for use in bongs, and that other liquids may reduce the filtration of THC. Could saltwater or other liquids be more helpful here in either reducing the solubility of THC in the mixture or making it less able to stick to something before reaching the lungs?


I just tried salt-water and it did seems to work better. I got very high and the smoke seemed smoother.

I'll try again tomorrow from the same pipe with... let's say... milk.

Wait maybe milk isn't a good idea since THC sticks to fat?

I find it hard to believe that a joint is healthier than a bong or bubbler that filters the smoke through water...
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Touche Guevara
#13 Posted : 12/10/2009 3:02:37 AM
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fractal enchantment wrote:
someone posted this in a cannabis thread on my student forums for school..

"Genetic Modified Seeds
The study above states that marijuana prevents nerve cell deaths. However, I've seen scans of the brains of people who are regular marijuana users and their brains look unhealthy with holes in the brain's tissues and their brain chemistry is imbalanced.

A recent 2009 study shows Mary Jane disrupts brain development and damages various regions of the brain in teens and young adults: http://www.sciencedaily....2009/02/090202175105.htm

Another study concluded that chronic THC exposure causes cognitive declines (loss of nerve cells) normally associated with aging to occur more quickly: http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjp_faq17.htm
For these reasons, I think it is unconscionable to recommend the use of marijuana to any person of any age. The deterioration of the brain cells is due in part to the genetically modified substances in the plant as well as to the smoke which is inhaled. Note that there is not the same level of brain damage from simply smoking tobacco cigarettes. (This statement does not consider other dangers involved in tobacco smoking nor recommends it as an alternative.) Chemically derived genetic modifications are neuro-excito-toxins which can damage the liver cells and the brain cells and are far more dangerous than most people think. I can't justify recommending marijuana when there are so many other useful herbs out there that are more powerful in their natural form and less toxic. "


Can someone with more knowledge of this stuff look at those links and offer an opinion..sounds like BS to me..they are claiming that cannabis causes holes in the brain tissue..

A correlational link shown in a study of only 28 individuals is hardly worth mentioning. It should certainly be looked into, but it's absolutely not something one should base a decision on. From the article linked:

Quote:
Ashtari added that the findings are preliminary. Among other limitations of the study, such as a small sample size, five of the 14 subjects with heavy cannabis use also had a history of alcohol abuse, which may have contributed an effect. Also, it is possible that the brain abnormalities may have predisposed the subjects to drug dependence, rather than drug usage causing the brain abnormalities.
 
antrocles
#14 Posted : 12/10/2009 3:10:39 AM

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dang FE- if this is true then my noodle must look like a chunk o' swiss cheese at this point.... Sad

..wait a minute....

.........what were we talking about again?...

Pleased
"Rise above the illusion of time and you will have tomorrow's
wisdom today."
 
'Coatl
#15 Posted : 12/10/2009 3:17:52 AM

Teotzlcoatl


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Quote:
For these reasons, I think it is unconscionable to recommend the use of marijuana to any person of any age.


People under 18 should NOT use drugs of any form for this very reason.

I also think Cannabis (nor any drug) should be used daily.

Three times a week should be the maximum for Cannabis use.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
burnt
#16 Posted : 12/10/2009 8:54:32 AM

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Look marijuana does effect your ability to form short term memories. This appears to be correlated with its effects in the hippocampus.

Anyway there is no evidence that marijuana causes long term irreversable brain damage. Sure it can cause abnormalities but so does almost any drug that goes into the CNS that you use daily.

There is also intense research going on to investigate the neuroprotective effects of cannabinoids and similar substances. They have been demonstrated in various animal models and in vitro studies to have neuroprotective effects. A synthetic derivitive was also in clinical testing in humans against acute brain injury and I think the results were positive. These compounds can protect the brain from all kinds of insults. But they are not without side effects as we all know.
 
 
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