I think it was in the fall of 2014... I was at a friend's house and recieved a phone call from my dad. He asked if I had a moment to talk. I said that I was about to leave and head back to my house, and would call him back on the way home. I could sense some kind of concern in his voice.

Something didn't sit right and I told my friend that I had to go. Called dad back a few minutes later... and then I soon learned that my mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer. Apparently, it had been diagnosed a month or so earlier, but they weren't telling anyone until they had a plan.

When I got off the phone, I could not focus on anything else. I was furious. My ego and arrogance kicked in, wondering, "why?" as if it were some kind of personal attack. Why would the "universe" do this to such a sweet, kindhearted person? Why? Why? Why?

I demanded an answer.

Later that night, after lots of self medicating with alcohol, I decided that my brilliant self would go into hyperspace and say, "F--- you" to "which ever entity caused this to happen." As mentioned, I was intoxicated, frustrated, and erring on the side of delusion as I tried to comprehend the news.

Well, I vaped DMT. Maybe a bad idea? Maybe a good idea? I don't know, but it is what I did.

I went looking for a battle and clearly that was the attention that I was attracting. I was quicky confronted with a very aggressive entity.

I'll skip some of the things that are irrelevant.

At the most difficult part, I was begging for help rather than looking to fight. When it finally asked what was wrong, I explained my mother's situation. Its whole demeanor and expression began to change. A sense of wicked enjoyment of seeing me pathetically try to grasp a hold in the "battle" turned to sadness. The thing released its hold and began sobbing. (I'm not sure if you've ever heard and entity sob, but it sounds like echoing thunder.) In between sobs, it said, "I have(had) a mother, too!" and continued to cry.

It explained how this event made it realize how much it missed its mother. At that point, neither of us were looking to fight. Enemies United from a common distress. It said it would help if it could, along with some other things, and we parted ways.

My mother underwent surgery, is still alive, and has made a full recovery. It appears as though the cancer went into remission. Did that entity have anything to do with it? I have no idea, but she's still here.

It certainly seems like that entity and myself had a lot in common... almost as if it had come from my own imagination. Maybe not.

Either way, yes... this substance can produce powerful experiences that seem more real than reality. Although, who knows what reality IS, anyways?


Take Care,
ACY

You're missing the point dragonrider, taking it too literally. Try taking the Jungian perspective. Human psychology follows distinct patterns of being, you are not seeing the forest for the trees. You're arguing something that no one else is even arguing, no point even in discussing it further if not even speaking of the same thing.

That says it all right there man....

He himself, subconsciously most likely has big doubts... at the least...

you are the member on her I most respect!

Always coming from a place of love, kindness and compassion.

always love reading your comments, always informative and thought provoking

i'm on your side about this situation

I don't even consider myself atheist, I'm me and nothing more... but I share nearly all of your beliefs

are you still at the point where you believe the "good cop \ bad cop" thing? or has that evolved as well?

what about the Egyptians in your very early experiences, He or they were humanoid yes?

I responded to you comment on my post last week about the Egyptian... please read and get back to me...

I as well have seen many entities so far and just about all of them are humanoid

Ive seen full bodied evil looking jesters that looked female looked evil but weren't in any way

Ive seen gnomes..

Ive seen a 30 foot tall giant walking in the background while I saw those feminine jesters but only the giants legs...

and my very first trip I encountered the all black shadow Gray alien looking entity with those super long spindly fingers.....

all humanoid

But if you take that jungian perspective, the whole argument makes even less sense, actually.

And i already said that the OP is right in his conclusion that he should not be taking DMT anymore.

The OP seems btw actually to be arguing exactly that DMT entities are real metaphysical beings with evil intentions.

Now 332211 is more or less arguing here, that OP is being vilified because we are being dogmatic about our beloved drug, and that OP could actually have a point.

But if that is meant purely in a psychological sense (where these evil beings are merely a force of our own creation) then, all we would have to ask ourselves is if the benefits that we and the people around us experience from us taking DMT, outweigh the burden of the occasional frightening experience.

So i think now, that the assumption that the answer to this question is different for each individual member of this forum, is not that far fetched. And it very much seems to be the case even, as a matter of fact. Some people prosper, and some people don't. And then some people are somewhere in between.

And if that would be true, i don't see the point 332211 is making.

It obviously is not just "horror and destruction" that awaits us in the DMT realm. And if we sometimes might experience what kind of horror and destruction our own minds are capable of creating, many of us may even learn from it and grow as a person.

We could simply say that DMT is not for everybody and be done with it. But aparently that is not enough for some people.

Well thank you for your clarification Dragonrider.

From my perspective 332211 wasn't making an argument or a point, just an observation. And one worth considering, if it at least partially true. No given judgement if the experience is bad or good. Obviously, psychedelics and their usage are not very one dimensional. Nor are they as predictable as the usage of other substance, particularly those of habituation and addiction.

My original point was that the vitriol coming out of this thread might have had something to do with people being strongly attached to the experience and the drug, and 332211 made the comparison to the pattern of the experience of addiction.

I might add to that pattern, the first experiences an addict has with their drug of choice, is liberating and freeing, even similar to that of a mystical experience. But soon after, with repeated use that feeling is never recovered the experience instead is replaced with pain and misery, never getting there. The addict is left grasping at smoke never able to recreate the experience that made them feel whole.

Obviously this does not mean, to have to think one dimensionally. That only 'horror and destruction' await the DMT experience, or that its inherently evil. That would be only one side of the story. No different blaming heroin or fentanyl for the problem of the human being, inanimate molecules. Of course compared to opioids, psychedelics are unpredictable, we know only to expect the unexpected.

Obviously, it can be said people benefit from the usage of psychedelic drugs. The data on that is clear. However, the data also indicates the most helpful experiences occur after a single experience (at which they categorize as one of the most meaningful experiences of their lives). Not from multiple or habitual use. It can also be said people who suffer from fracture bones benefit from the use of morphine, while its clear habitual use of morphine after the initial fracture is healed is detrimental.

What isn't exactly clear, is the new problems that can arise from habitual use of psychedelics, as a result of a similar attachment to the substance. Perhaps only clear it its worst extremes. Especially considering that these compounds are capable of invoking deep mystical experiences, this can result in a deep emotional attachment to the substance or substances themselves. This isn't something easy to accept. Since were here on the DMT-Nexus, obviously, these compounds mean something important to us.

I don't think the OP is arguing anything, just relaying his own experience.

The attachment is what appears to evoke emotion and the dogmatic, willful ignorance and dismissal when such a negative connotation is suggested or simply experienced. Even if it were not directed at any one person. This refusal and dogmatic belief that 'the psychedelic experience could be nothing but good, if only it were used correctly', is a dangerous one. Who is to presume they are the one who can use them correctly? You'd only be naive to think so. You are you own worst enemy, as it goes. They said the same thing about communism. And yet, when it's put into practice, the end result is always the same. Everyone dies. In Jungian terms, the shadow. The fool who believes he is integrating the shadow is the one most oblivious to its influence, and therefore the most dangerous.

I agree mindlusion.

I must admit even, that i have experienced this attachement to psychedelics myself.
During this period, i think they lost the value they'd initially had, because of this very attachement. They are, technically speaking, a drug. Maybe a sacrament to some, but also a drug.

But at least to me, this does not seem to be a place where this darker side of DMT and other psychedelics, is considered a taboo.

I think the thread escalated in an ugly way. It should have focussed on tge things you mentioned. Or it would have been better anyway.
But the likelyhood of it escalating the way it did was great from the beginning on.

It's the difference in tone between "There is a devil" or "i see a devil".

Where is all this interpretation of these beings as evil coming from? And why would you think they need to be kind to random monkeys who stumble into their realms?

Would you call a tiger evil that gives you some scratches while playing with you after finding you in their forest? Or a snake that tries to bite you after you stepped on its tail? Or the mosquitoes that try to suck you dry?
Then if you don't like big cats, snakes and mosquitoes and don't know how to interact with them, why go to the jungle? For the pretty colours?

I don't think anyone who has been to either hyperspace or the jungle would tell you its all flowers, fluffy things and tea parties, so if you are not up for handling some nastiness, maybe it's a good idea not to go to either. And in case you want to go, it might be helpful to learn about the place, how to interact with that environment it's inhabitants and look for a good guide.
You can learn and grow a lot in both the jungle and hyperspace (or hyperspace in the jungle ) if you are up for the inner and outer challenges these environments provide, but if you are only in for the pleasant parts, don't bother.

As for the god/allah/YHWH part, maybe they just don't like that particular entity. It's a pretty bad tempered one after all if you go by the accounts in the different books.

Nicita brings up a good point. And I've mentioned this in passing, but I don't think I emphasized it nearly enough. I mentioned Nick Sand, because he did extensive work with DMT breakthrough experiences, and I mentioned my own personal practice with ayahuasca, buuuut....

If you're really trying to understand this stuff, what DMT is, what it can do, what is dark and what is light and what is neither.... you should be looking at what indigenous Amazonian cultures think about it. They're the only people on Earth that have genuine long standing social traditions surrounding DMT.

In ayahuasca using societies, you can encounter dark entities. You can encounter helpful entities. Entity contact is not absolutely central to ayahuasca use, mind you (ayahuasca shamanism encompasses a huge number of different practices), but it is also not peripheral either, and understanding how to interact with entities can be a crucial element of ayahuasca shamanism.

I think your "jinn" model of thinking is apt, insofar as jinn are good/bad/neutral, and your caution because of this is probably apt, from a shamanic perspective.

In the end you're probably, basically, right - entities probably do not exist as purely benevolent beings who are only there to help. My only addition to that insight would just be that - they can also be benevolent, and in my own experience with ayahuasca (which hasn't really involved "entities", just deep meditation) - it has been tangibly medicinal, so, not malevolent by any means. Like I said before - I think fasting is probably the best comparison here. Good, but not without risk.

I'm sorry for getting defensive about this practice. It wasn't cool.

Thank you! I appreciate the kind words. I have been trying to assess my thoughts and reactions to things/posts/comments and assess them with a sense of balance.

I try not to form an opinion that is overly polarized, though I know that it is unavoidable. I am a human(oid?) and I, too, am filled with bias and forms of indoctrination.

It's been my goal, lately, to communicate with others in an assertive manner and engage in discussion that causes me to question my own beliefs. I do have my "pet theories," but I try to leave room for learning new information. From examining history, I've noticed that a lot of people, who were highly respected, proposed theories that seemed appealing to the audience. They became accepted by the general public for a period of time... until another highly respected individual proposed a theory that either nullifies the previous idea or fills the gaps from the previous idea.

In many cases, people who were once considered "right" were actually only "kinda right." But they were wrong. That is ok! Because if they had never proposed such theories to be considered, then there would be no reason to investigate the concept into further detail.

Thank you for the respect, but just remember - I might be wrong!

And - you should start coming to visit the hyperspace chat in the evenings. It's nice being able to discuss these things in real-time.



Replies to the questions in bold.



I often wonder about the nature of reality, mind-body, spirit/soul, the universe, and god(s)/lack of - just to name a few of the many things that cross my mind. Of those, one subject that I have trouble with is the mind-body-spirit association. Due to being limited to a subjective perspective, "I" can only be aware of the surroundings through sensory input that I receive through the body.

The body is complex, because it can be somewhat aware of itself, yet never look itself in the eyes. Even in a mirror reflection or a picture - it's not the same. The body can see parts of itself, but never see its own face.

All of the sensory input that the body receives is processed through the various sensations related to the stimuli/transmission of signal/processing/conscious (or subconscious) thought/response part of the body's nervous system. Therefore, everything that "I" experience is subject to the stimuli that interacts with the body. In that sense "you" are very real, yet you are only real because I have the imagination and processing ability to comprehend that you are real. If I did not have the sensory reception functions of a human, I would not perceive you as "you."

This is where it gets tricky, right? Because I'm led to wonder - is awareness a construct of the body's ability to respond to stimuli? It the notion of consciousness merely a construct of our own imagination? Is the imagination just the processing of stimuli? Further more, is our ability to receive stimuli from the external limited from "receiving" the full scope of what is simultaneously occurring right at this moment, everywhere??

Due to such questions, I am conflicted with my own mind-body-spirit entity. I am unsure if "I" am some abstract entity in another dimension taking a ride in a flesh body.... I am unsure if there is a "soul" that has it's own individual universe and is taking a moment to experience another universe under different conditions.... I am unsure if the notion of consciousness and awareness are purely a fabrication of the human stimuli/response factor.

Due to this uncertainty, I tend to have an abstract view of myself and reality as a whole. Perhaps that is why the entities tend to be more abstract than a defined classification.

LOL... long post, sorry bout that.


Take Care!
ACY

To the people doubting the existence of evil entities, why do you think that? For all we know, hyperspace could be infinitely larger than the observable universe (perhaps our universe is just a droplet among droplets on the hyperspatial fabric).

Just because one has had a fair few trips, and only seen certain types of entities, doesn't mean that evil ones don't exist.

I've had experience with them, i sought out an audience with them. I was assaulted by one of them. I've been told directly by other benevolent entities to stay away from certain other entities, purely because they were "not nice". Whether that means they are evil is up for debate. Evil entities do exist. This is not something that can be proven or disproven. Anecdotal evidence is enough when it comes to the study of hyperspace and its inhabitants. After all, all we know about entities in the first place is through anecdotal evidence.

Good and evil are not concepts that are easily translatable to other species. They may have their own definitions of good and evil. Suppose there is a deity whose cosmic duty is to destroy problematic species throughout the galaxy. And say that this deity consults their checklist and sees humanity as problematic. This deity comes to earth, and gives us all a chance for redemption. Otherwise, we face complete annihilation. Is this deity good or evil? Perhaps this form of cosmic justice is "righteous", with other powerful entities nodding their approval at our extinction.

Humanity has lived in fear and reverence of those with incomprehensible power. This is why magic, witchcraft, wizardry, alchemy etc. were seen as "evil" by monotheistic Abrahamic agrarian cultures. Even if none of those things are real, they still have soft power.

When you accidentally step on an insect, is that insect cursing you for being evil?

When the friendlier entities warned you to stay away from others did they hint at or did you ask any methods that you could do to ensure that?

Sounds like these things are a roll of the dice. How much do you think that depending on your mental energy and focus you could draw out an experience with either an “evil” or a “friendly” one of these entities at will?

How much do you think that mindframe factor played into all these accounts in deciding the end result of the experience they had even if mindset was “involuntary” and no premeditation took place they just grabbed the pipe and launched without pre thought?

They told me how to ensure my safety against any entity. Granted, this may only work for me, your mileage may vary. All i need to do is dismiss them. Ignore them. Be done with them. Say out loud "you cannot harm me", and say it with 100% conviction. To say it like a seasoned martial artist warning a drunk jock to back off. I've had so many experiences, that i've disintegrated several entities. They tried to attack, and i did a cliche divine palm attack from a plethora of martial arts movies. It's not so much the physical motion, but the intent behind it. Because of that, some entities feared me. Perhaps they thought that i destroy any entity.

One of the most powerful methods for drawing out a particular entity is music. Tibetan singing bowls, or chimes, or any ambient music that sounds "nice" will draw out benevolent entities, usually. Listening to ominous music encourages the evil entities. It's also dependent on your intentions. If i premeditate on negativity, and listen to ominous music while tripping, i can almost guarantee an encounter with a malevolent entity. It's a mixture of a few factors.


If i trip with no premeditation or ritual, then the trips are usually free from entities, and very abstract. To the point of being pointless. At best, i get visuals similar to those disgustingly overpriced paintings where the "artist" literally just chucked paint at the canvas. At worst, i get really strange and uncomfortable sensations throughout my body. Tripping with no rituals or intentions are very boring.

I often wonder about the nature of reality, mind-body, spirit/soul, the universe, and god(s)/lack of - just to name a few of the many things that cross my mind. Of those, one subject that I have trouble with is the mind-body-spirit association. Due to being limited to a subjective perspective, "I" can only be aware of the surroundings through sensory input that I receive through the body.

The body is complex, because it can be somewhat aware of itself, yet never look itself in the eyes. Even in a mirror reflection or a picture - it's not the same. The body can see parts of itself, but never see its own face.

All of the sensory input that the body receives is processed through the various sensations related to the stimuli/transmission of signal/processing/conscious (or subconscious) thought/response part of the body's nervous system. Therefore, everything that "I" experience is subject to the stimuli that interacts with the body. In that sense "you" are very real, yet you are only real because I have the imagination and processing ability to comprehend that you are real. If I did not have the sensory reception functions of a human, I would not perceive you as "you."

This is where it gets tricky, right? Because I'm led to wonder - is awareness a construct of the body's ability to respond to stimuli? It the notion of consciousness merely a construct of our own imagination? Is the imagination just the processing of stimuli? Further more, is our ability to receive stimuli from the external limited from "receiving" the full scope of what is simultaneously occurring right at this moment, everywhere??

Due to such questions, I am conflicted with my own mind-body-spirit entity. I am unsure if "I" am some abstract entity in another dimension taking a ride in a flesh body.... I am unsure if there is a "soul" that has it's own individual universe and is taking a moment to experience another universe under different conditions.... I am unsure if the notion of consciousness and awareness are purely a fabrication of the human stimuli/response factor.

Due to this uncertainty, I tend to have an abstract view of myself and reality as a whole. Perhaps that is why the entities tend to be more abstract than a defined classification.

LOL... long post, sorry bout that.


Take Care!
ACY[/quote]

Never be sorry about the length of your insightful posts ACY I'm certainly not sorry lol

I very much understand what you mean about your abstract entities, everyone is unique and it makes sense that everyone would and does interpret their experience in their own way.

I hope to have a beautiful breakthrough, meet some nice entities and have some communication and hopefully take something meaningful away from the exp.

I'm at work, gotta actually do some work.

I'll def show up in chat!

yes exactly! Here and there have many similar characteristics...

I like to think of dmt as the city of the spirits. You can go to Manhattan and see many different things. Really bad things can happen to you in the city. you can be insulted, hustled, robed, raped, or even killed if you get with the wrong people. Street smarts are always important both here and there however this is NEVER to say the city is a bad place. Im sure many would claim that its not for everyone or maybe some suburbanites would say its to dangerous to go to. The city is full of wonder, magic, art, music, food, and laughs as well. the experience of these substances is a very intentional experience meaning we did it for a reason. I think the reason we have for going can seriously effect what happens to us when we are there. This all being said I really feel for you on a bad experience it can be traumatizing and hard to handle just like any real experience. I suggest meditation and warm walks in the sun <3

love and peace to you

I won't say that evil entities are not real.

They could be real. But they could just as well not be real.
That is simply a fact.

But if indeed they would be real, the fact that they might as well just not exist at all, says something about how powerfull these beings realy would be, in this case.

And on the other side, if they would be just a figment of your imagination, you would allow your own inner fears to have immense power over you, by not simply doubting their existance.

By saying that they are definately real, you give these creatures a power they wouldn't have by themselves. Regardless of whether they realy are autonomous beings, or simply projections of your own demons.

Has anyone ever tried "touching" them? I grew up in a unique religion that taught in its deeper lore how to distinguish between a "good spirit" and a "bad spirit". You offer your hand for them to shake. The good ones will decline and the bad ones will attempt and fail.

After losing the religion of my upbringing, I haven't given this much thought. But I'm wondering if there may be something to it. I now believe quite firmly that the founder of this religion was quite knowledgeable in the use of plant entheogens, and used them to bring direct spiritual experience to his followers.