I have found that the entities in the crysathinum(not full breakthrough) that fold in and out of the pattern have flipped me off, shaken a finger at me like, no no no but, If I ask them to help me before I smoke they became flirty and fun. had one flip up her skirt(not in a sexual way)as to be flirty and catch my attn. its my opinion that they hate drugs and if you treat spice like a rec drug or for fun they get slightly insulted. treating the spice with the respect it deserves, seems to be the point they want to make. they are very receptive when you ask for help and, treat spice with a healthy level of respect.

You say it is obvious that what you claim is the total and absolute truth.

Well.....if that is the game you're playing, then i can say that it is obvious that it isn't.

You say black, i say white. Now who's right?

This is not a logically valid conclusion, and also not consistent with the experience of many others.

I'm hearing a lot of people talk about entities flipping them off... I have a few questions.


Are these entities humanoid? If so, how well defined are they? (Visually? I.e. are they blurry, clear as day, seems as if there is no difference between them and a human-life form.)

I ask, because I've never encountered anything that is remotely human aside from a few very unique experiences... once found myself sittin' in a circle, having a powwow with Buddha, christ, and Mohammad. No middle fingers. They were all very pleasant, friends, and even said that they were "brothers" as well as "there are many of 'us'." Cool dudes. They all laugh at the silly religions that have been made 'in their honor.' We've missed the point on that front...

On a separate occasion, I found an empty "shell" of a body. No flipping middle fingers... but that experience.... wow. Powerful.

The only aggressive humanoids that I've yet to encounter have been discussed in a trip report. Even they didn't give the middle finger.


I'm genuinely curious about "how humanoid are the entities flipping you off? And what seems to be the mindset that leads up to them flipping you off?"

Don't get me wrong, I've had my fair share of "battles" in hyperspace... but, I wouldn't say that they were "bad." Or evil. In fact, I don't even hold a grudge against a very large, angry jungle cat type entity that shredded me to pieces upon entry to its realm. Intense physical pain - feeling like I was literally being torn apart.

In all fairness, I did kinda "kick the door down" in the kitty's lair. So, that's on me. After I was shredded, it put me back together, and we shared a more blissful experience... "sorry for not knockin'...."

Anyways.... entities and middle fingers... please share the circumstances which lead to this.


Thanks!
Take Care,
ACY

That’s what a fellow tripper said years ago, that a Buddha in the sky flipped him off. It means good luck in Hawaii ? Maybe they are showing us the same amount of disrespect we are treating the plant experience

Actually I think that what aaalyafei describes should not be so easily dismissed. He actually seems to have remained quite calm and to have acted out of a centered place true to his own spiritual senses. I have occasionally encountered dark entities, but have no experience with DMT. I also tend to confront such a situation with my own love message, which is an affirmation that divinity is love. I am not an orthodox follower/believer in any religion, and while inexperienced with DMT have used many other psychedelics. This centering in my deepest understanding and love energy is always very effective at robbing such a malign presence of power.
What I read from DMT people here is very mixed and to be honest there is much of it that seems easily satisfied with light shows and shows little sign of producing wisdom or information that is appealing to me. I find the rudeness and narrow-mindedness of the response to aaalyfei to be defensive and childish.
This is in no way to fully diminish my interest in Ayahuasca and those who seem to follow a path of discipline, dietas , and ceremonial respect in seeking to communion with Mother Ayahuasca and other forest spirits. More and more I feel a need for a deep inner consistency in approaching these things: a consistency of physical health, diet, environmental sustainability, and connection to the realities of the human situation on planet earth. I feel that I see that serious intent in some who are involved with DMT and with some it seems to me to be a kind of amusement or addiction to intense otherworldly experience.
In my long life I have observed that drugs, particularly when isolated as chemical compounds , when over relied upon will often distract people and make for a very narrow experience. I find most affinity with those who see these things as healing agents within a larger context of human development.

It is truth because they physically were trying to do something disturbing to me before I stopped them and jolted and stood up. What more truth do you want? For me to lie to you and say they were trying to feed me grapes?

Game? What could I possibly be gaining taking time out of my day writing on this thread and replying to people?
I actually care and I am telling you all to be careful in these unknown territories and lands you visit and have 0 knowledge of what is there and how to move through them safely. Just because you see some beautiful things and feel light etc doesn't mean it's all good and dandy. You think everything else in the universe is just roses and goose feather? Be critical of things man. We have rapists and murderers and hitlers that live on this planet you think they can't exist elsewhere?
Maybe the criminals in that world are much more advanced and have intellect and levels of deception which you don't understand.
Like Jonabark said above, they just show you some light shows and fireworks and you fall in prostration to them. They could easily think that these primitive humans are easily entertained and quite pathetic. Let's use them for something.

First one was when I smoked too much in one of the first times and most of it was burned. I had been coughing really hard and when I closed my eyes I saw jester mocking me coughing and directing rhythm of my coughing and then he flipped me and brought finger to his mouth which merged with it and at the same time I vomited. Jester looked humanoid and I saw only upper part of torso. It was black with colorful stripes, which were much detailed in themselves but I didn't have time to consider them.


Another occasion was when I was tripping and got to some guys I frequently get to and who were always happy to see me and entertain me. They playfully flipped me off couple of times just for laughs and giggles.

There is nothing wrong with your mind flipping you off, I find it funny

My comments are absolutely not relevant to the OP / thread, only in response to the confused acacian.

I frequently see middle-fingering... images/entities.

I did read about them before I experienced them, which puzzles me did I invent them by suggestion, but that question never can be answered now.

I've only seen them in closed-eye visuals. They are images, for me. As in, only two-dimensional. Even though it can be in a motion, it is more like a 2-d drawing/picture/image. When I've seen 3-dimensional, "real" beings - some faeries, the magnificent gargoyle woman, the floating lady rolling giant bubbles around on my ceiling, the floating beings simultaneously beckoning me and waving me away - there is never that flashing sensation of a middle-fingered being.

The images are actually quite clearly defined, and I would say that if they appear, it is probably early in a venture, and/or at low-ish doses. My recollection (which should always be viewed with suspicion) is almost like a joker on a playing card. Poor description, but trying to work with you. Most importantly, only 2-dimensional/flat.

You ask an interesting question, I doubt I'm offering much help.

It is most likely that they do not realy exist and that all of this was just a manifestation of your own subcounscious mind. Just like dreams are.

I completely respect and understand that after these experiences, you don't want to do DMT ever again. And i think you are probably right.
If you feel bad about DMT, you probably shouldn't do it anyway, regardless of why you feel bad about it.

There is nothing wrong with that.

But this is about YOU and YOUR experiences.

My experiences, and the experiences of many others, are different.

Many of us do not believe in other realms, or that creatures from these other realms, if they do exist, have any real power over us.

And the hypothesis that this is all just happening in the brain, realy is the most plausible one. Even IF you believe in other realms.

There is nothing wrong with believing in something. Even if it is something that is unlikely.
And there's nothing wrong with discussing the posibility either.
I actually think that could be a good thing, even.

But just don't try to force it down peoples throat.

I myself haven't seen any jesters, pers se' but ill do my best to describe the entities I see happen on a low dose 20mg or less. my field of view is like the snakes video, Serpents 2016(I tried to link here but lack the skills) but with more fractal, machine, checkerboard patterns on the snakes also doing their own thing. then one snake will slow down just enough for a figure to roll by and that's when Ive been shown the bird, and had a finger shaken at me like I was a bad boy. the figures are 2d, animated with bright contrasting colors, I guess the bright colors could be described as clownish, but more abstract similar to the Mayan image.

After I stopped calling it a recreation dose and took more respect and asked the entities Ive seen for help and guidance right before I partake, things are a lot smoother. I feel it has improved my exp. and have not had any fearful or shameful(upset entities) since implementing that method.

At the end of the day I think the only entity you can rely on is yourself. Trust your own intuition.

I don't buy the "it's all inside your head" opinion when it comes to entities. A lot can be explained as projections of the mind but not all of it. I've had experiences going back to early childhood, in nightmares, where I knew something was using my own mental imagery against me. Probably would have forgotten those memories if it wasn't for psychedelics helping me remember a lot of memories. It didn't happen frequently, but I can still clearly picture the dream imagery + feelings to this day.

Psychedelics, especially DMT, really helped to define what is 'my' mind, the boundary or periphery of it. When something transgresses that boundary or begins to push into it, you know about it. It's not like mental imagery arising from within you, it feels very tangible as something coming from 'outside', like a person bumping shoulders with you as you walk blind down a dark alley.

My belief is there is a whole ecosystem of entities, like any other organic ecosystem on earth. Some are friendly, neutral, malicious, just out for energy/meal. Some root for us, for humanity. Once at a festival I tried 4-aco-dmt or maybe something else, not sure, but after 30 minutes of nothing suddenly I dipped into hyperspace for 5-10 seconds where I was surrounded by 4-5 humanoid translucent entities who I immediately felt were family. There was nothing but me and them. They smiled, we hugged, and the vision and whole experience ended. As a result of that I do feel we have connections or at least something trying to help us in life, so called 'guardian angels'.

I think it really boils down to improving your intuition so you can see what is actually there and not be mislead by your own projective ability, either positive or negative. Saying they're all bad is as equally ludicrous as saying they're all angels. The truth is evidently somewhere in the middle.

then prove it

^
this, is worth thinking about

I think part of the reason of so much lashing out and demeaning of others experiences is this thread is due to some strong attachment to this compound and these experiences... Seems like it evokes emotional reactions from some people..

DmnStr8, wow... uncalled for... I don't see anyone else preaching belief and worldview other than from your comments, such bitter resentment. The only poisonous thinking that clearly stands out here is written in your venomous and cynical words. I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy such a miserable perception

Thank you hug46, for your forever candid discernment.

I struggle with bitterness, but still love the taste...

show me a single person, that is not suffering in any way in this world.

how did we end up in these bodies?

and why do we keep coming back to them?

do we get tricked into them, time after time after time?

because, we are free. always were, always will be.

the only ones that can sacrifice this freedom are... ourselves.

i am tired.

everything repeats itself.

"we will all walk out of samsara hand in hand"

and all are: the explorers, the critics, the crusaders and the sleeping masses.

whoever you are, whatever you have done, i dont care.

your pain shall be my motivation.

let*s get out of here.

To heck with it, I'm jumping back in.



Okay, yes and no. If you have done ayahuasca, you will know that there are different levels. Ayahuasca is quite similar to mushrooms, except you are far more sober minded, and the experience is much more inclined to be helpful. For me, anyway. I always know the ayahuasca is coming on when my bodily kinks and pains start resolving themselves... mushrooms, not as much. The thing about the breakthrough experience, is that none of the previous levels can prepare you for the breakthrough. It's like listening to the first 30 seconds of Dark Side of the Moon, and being like, "oh yeah, I have a sense of what's next". Nope, it doesn't prepare you at all. But, it is still indeed Dark Side of the Moon

I'd like to refer back to what I said before about fasting, because I'm still unhappy with the "malevolent" description here. I think caution's good, but jumping straight to "this is malevolent" is what I'm finding frustrating.

Ayahuasca heals me. Many years ago I fucked up my jaw when I took a lot of MDMA. This bone damage has since radiated out, and constantly gives me neck problems and other body issues. Ayahuasca, consistently, helps me. My jaw will snap in place, my neck will snap in place... it's really, really good for me, physically. And it helps me psychologically, too. I broke out of a 16 year depression after an ayahuasca trip, because I realized that love was the heart of meaning in life. So, when I hear "this stuff is malevolent", it really upsets me, because I would be in a much more terrible and impious place in my life without it. I studied theology because of this stuff.

That being said - I don't really want to deny that there can be bad experiences with DMT, whether smoked or in ayahuasca. So, I'll say it again: I think ingesting DMT is akin to fasting. It is good! It is a pious thing to do! BUT! It is well known in most traditions that if you undertake this pious practice, that it can lead you to come into contact with dark spiritual realities - because it makes you more sensitive to spiritual realities generally.

(For all the non-believers here, this model holds no matter how you interpret it).

Please consider this model of thinking about this, because again, DMT helps people, it's not a delusion, the kingdom of Satan is not divided against itself, nor is the kingdom of God. Fasting will make you sensitive and attuned, and will put you in contact with the world of spirits. In fact, in indigenous ayahuasca traditions, people often fast or at least consume ascetic diets!

I think you're sort of on board with this interpretation, just insofar as you are referring to the morally ambivalent jinn, and not evil demons full stop. Ultimately, this is where I come down on it: I think that this caution about moral ambivalence is probably correct, but I would strongly urge you to not for this reason consider DMT to be morally ambivalent or worse malevolent because of that. Fasting can do the exact same thing, but fasting is pious. Does this make sense? I'm upset, because it seems like you're just going, "you are deluded if you think this is good, something bad happened therefore it is bad!" But fasting is not bad! Fasting is pious! And the same type of scenario can occur, yet fasting is fundamentally a pious thing to do.

Check out Plato's Phaedrus, and the palinode for Love. Socrates gave a speech bashing love, because of how treacherous a spirit it can be - and then was ordered by a voice from heaven to apologize and make a speech in praise of love, because "the best things in life come from madness, when given as a gift from god". Love, madness, fasting... DMT. They can all be dangerous, they can all put you in contact with spirits, good and bad. And each of them is sacred, even though they can be dangerous.

Fasting, DMT - same fundamental risks and rewards and, in my opinion, ultimately pious character. I hope you will consider this model to think about it... because without DMT, I would be a far more damaged person, spiritually and physically. Yes, exercise caution, but.... I am mostly just worried that you might be slipping into impiety about this, and even might be encouraging an impious perspective. Was Christ wrong to fast? Was Muhammad wrong to fast? Was the Buddha wrong to take a single meal a day after his enlightenment? Each of these individuals communicated with spirits. I don't know about Muhammad, but I know Buddha and Christ both were tempted by arch-evil spirits. But I think all of them, were pious, and that their practice was pious, in spite of and, in Christ's case at least, even because of the confrontation with evil it allowed.

In addition, I will also say ayahuasca is much better to work with if this kind of thing concerns you. DMT moves quickly - not just temporally (5 minute trip), but, it also rides like a roller coaster. Everything moves fast. In ayahuasca, you see similar things, but it moves slowly. It's actually quite hard to do anything productive with smoked DMT, it does not lend itself to shamanic practice easily. Nick Sand seemed to manage it, but that dude had access to an infinite supply of it and lived the life of an underground acid chemist, so he could actually create continuity in lifestyle and use to do that... for the most part, smoked DMT is more like something that happens to you, rather than something you do - ayahuasca is much better, in my opinion, especially if you have worries like you have.

It is not logically valid because "some people experienced X" does not mean that everyone else automatically will too. (Some A are B, C is an A, therefore....no conclusion logically follows).

And it is not consistent with the experience of others, because some people indeed haven't.

And also...the burden of proof is on the person making these claims.

If you claim that there are evil beings out there in hyperspace, then YOU have to prove it.

Ofcourse you can say that i cannot prove there are no evil entities out there, so it COULD all be true. But that is all a matter of maybe. Maybe the big, flying spaghettimonster is real.

Alteration of brain activity is the more plausible explanation. We don't need to know exactly how the brain generates counsciousness in order to be able to say this. We know that there is a correlation between the brain and counsciousness. Brain damage can change a persons character. Everybody's character or "soul" changes the same way to the same kind of damage.

Occams razor.
You need no less than a whole extra universe for the metaphysical explanation of the DMT experience. You only need what's already there for the materialistic explanation.
A whole extra universe is no small detail

Same here, ACY. Besides one breakthrough during which I looked up and saw the loving face of my mom. A childhood memory breaking to the surface? What I usually see is so far outside anything I can explain, definitely not human. What an incredibly powerful substance, our spirit molecule. Interesting read with my morning toke.

"Just as long as I am in this world, I am the light of this world."