I always use white sage..so far I have anyway with it..seems to work well, the thujone I think might enhance it..it increases neuro-activity or something like that by inhibiting GABA..also I believe white sage is a vasodialator.

I remember reading one of ron's posts saying: with bufo, ginkgo was good for vasodialation but decreased the visual aspects.

does the sage affect the visuals at all? I'm so curious (and don't have any to test) because it's also supposed to provide lucidity and clarity

I couldnt say if it effects the visuals or not..I have never made bufo changa without it..

Did you smoke enough to feel the side effects?..I just came back from a trip with the vilca changa that was quite visionary in the dark..and I smoked enough so that I was feeling side effects for the first few minutes..no nausea but some head pressure and sort of pins and needles over my whole body..sort of a numb feeling but not unpleasant..

Alone in the dark laying down is really the best way to experience the visions. I dont think you will get to those levels though if you are not feeling some minor side effects for the first 2-3 minutes. Then I lay back and wait with eyes closed. First there is some visual static, and then it builds..and finally maybe 5-10 minutes a second stage hits..it almost feels like a different molecule, much closer to psilocin and the visions start. For me I always see an electric blue spiral grid like in alex grey artwork right when it is starting.

I think I felt some side effects very lightly after quite a few tokes...very light version of the vilca naseau that I've experienced in full force... to be honest, it was kinda a jovial social setting with a few friends so there wasn't much option to relax into it...

I really think the seeds got burnt badly, it's probably a bad thermostat... I may consider trying this again with slightly lower temps... I was encouraged because the changa was very nice as an alternative to weed but I do believe if more was smoked by each person it would've built up to something... I mean, I felt the layers build up the more we smoked.

interesting you find it a good cannabis alternative..I have thought the same thing many times when taken in mid doses socially and at the beach etc..

how does the IPA and the evap product usually look like?

SWIM put 50g of cebil seeds in a glass dish in the oven at 220 celcius...SWIM didnt remember that cebil seeds pop, so obviously, they started jumping up away from the dish... SWIM quickly covered without too many seeds falling off, good the oven tray fit just over it!

He followed the tek adjusting quantities.. He was impressed how the stuff just look totally black, as if its all burnt and gone no good stuff anymore.. The first IPA was completely black, the second he filtered over and over and it got very nicely clear.. it seemed yellowish but now its evapping and it got more red... SWIM will let it evap slowly and see what comes out

Since quite a bit of the toasted ipa stuff did not redissolve in IPA, he was thinking he might have lost some yield, but hopes it was just inactives...

lets see lets see

I wonder as well about yield loss from the stuff that doesnt redissolve in the iso..
Do you mean that after you evaporated the iso pull that it was black?..like the resin?..that would be consistant with what I am getting..

yes, exactly!

what yields where you getting? how did the IPA and your product look after this last redissolution? or did you always evap in the herbs and didnt see it? (but at least what colour was the ipa.. )

I think Ill mantain slow evap of the IPA and hope it could crystalize, but maybe its not at all possible.. in any case doesnt matter im not in a hurry and would only bioassay next weekend

It looks quite red, the evapping IPA now...

so the IPA evappd.. it looks just like jungle spice, hardish oily red.. Seems it wont get much dryier then this, but Ill give it another 24 hours

was it the same for you guys?

yea dude it was the same...i should update the tek to say to cover the seeds..i always forget about that...anyway...it DOES look like you loose yield but in reality..its just the bad stuff thats burning..when i evapped my FIRST IPA..i was left with not a whole lot of stuff..and then i toasted it again..then pulled with IPA...and that too left some dark little circles of liquid...and while the amount of bufo that i got looked very small...one hit of the stuff is enough to get the full beginning effects

you have to remember that with 8g of the seeds..and at 4% yield...the most you will be getting is 320mg...so you add that to your gram of herbs..plus the 100mg harmalas...you end up with 1420mg and lets say you take 20mg hit..that is enough to contain just about 4.5mg bufotenine...and that ALSO leaves you with 70 more doses of that size...and with the harmala alkaloids...4.5mg is a bit stronger...even since you are only getting 1.5mg harmala alkaloids...

usually what ill do is take 15mg bufo changa..take a few hits from it...load up another ...pinch...smoke it...and then possibly take another pinch...

i also have to take VERY small hits of this stuff..because at a certain point..if you hit it just a bit tooo hard...you cough it out...so small hits..and as many as you can take...its cool

So those damned aliens tried this extraction with no luck. They toasted the seeds at 465 F. It seemed to smoke quite a bit when it was toasted after the sodium carbonate was added. Stunk up the place pretty bad. Then aliens used closer to 1/2 ratio of sodium carbonate rather than 1/4th or 1/8th as the tek suggested. Don't know if that had anything to do with it.

The final evaporation of the iso yeilded a kind of blackish goo. When smoked there is no nausea or vaso constriction, a feeling of something slight but not much considering how much the aliens and their guides smoked.

One of the aliens caught a whiff of the smoke from the sodium carbonate toast and started hallucinating for a bit after 5 or 10 minutes. They are pretty sure the seeds were active but perhaps the actives got vaporized in the process. Don't know if this is due to a bad thermostat as lbeing789 also experienced or if perhaps the temperature given in the tek is too high for an oven.

Any suggestions for a lower temp to try? The hotplates with exact temp control seem quite expensive.

The aliens have been wanting to try bufo for a while but thought the tek was too complicated and didn't want to use any stinky solvents so they were very stoked on this tek.

They were also reading about shelling the seeds. Does this make a difference in the product?

Jorkest, is that 4% of the seeds+pods, or just the seeds?

update.. swim's friend had better luck with the last batch, about 50 lower in the oven, still not that stronger but much more noticable now, haven't had the guts to smoke a load of it yet because he's not in the right headspace... but has been pleasantly surprised by the sudden change in mood after a couple of hits in his vg, its as if a negative perspective changes to positive, tested this several times... j's didn't work so well.. I don't think a joint is the best way to do it.

Notes on the baking process, it is interesting that repeatedly baking the goods does seem to refine things, logically you're leaving more and more black stuff after each redisolve and filter.. some stuff gets "burnt", some stuff doesn't, so it's got to be seperating somehow. Maybe it's just the black stuff breaking down slowly.

Acetone seems to disolve more than iso.

Jorkest.. .whats this about covering the seeds?

theres you answer lbeing.. DONT vape in the genie, it wont work!!!

bufotenine vaporizes at VERY high temps, which means you need to smoke it, not vaporize it! try a joint or pipe/bong instead

I just wrote the exact opposite... the vg can reach those temps, you just have to hold the torch longer... I've always considered it a downside to the vg that it doesnt have a ceiling temperature like the volcano does. Eventually things combust in the vg, so with the torch it is easy to find the temperature.... as I said in the post, my buddys friend has already done it.. its not theoretical. Joint's work, but not as well as the vg/torch.

The aliens don't know if they like the idea of toasting with the sodium carbonate in there. Next time they think they will skip the toast after the sodium carbonate has dried. Then do some pulls, evaporate, then toast. Then try whatever the product of that is. If it is too nauseating one would suspect that you could keep doing pulls then toasting after. They think they will try this and see if there is much difference after each toast.

In my experience if you toast thoroughly you shouldn't have to do it more than once.

I slowly move the heat up until you see vapors coming off your stuff. Then keep slowly edging the heat up every now and then. I use a conventional oven that doesn't go any higher than 260C (500f). It should get to a stage where no more vapor/smokey stuff is coming off.

"In my experience if you toast thoroughly you shouldn't have to do it more than once."

Yeah I and thinking the same thing.. skipped the last toast on my last batch and it wasnt any worse..the one I am doing right now I only did one toast..

Nice! That's just what they needed to know, especially the part about slowly raising the heat until vapors are coming off. Guess the aliens should have kept a better eye on it in the oven but they were off abducting humans and/or chatting it up with their hyperdimensional homies or some shit.

Strange that the oven was only turned up to 465 though. Guess you shouldn't go by just the thermostat on an oven. This time they will try one toast at the beginning then try it after the iso evaporation and see if it is tolerable.