Recently i found out that there are sustainable communities being developed, or organised for survival after the events of 2012. following a belief, (but not only this belief) that 2012 is going to bring some physical changes to the earth. the collapse of current society, mass spiritual awakening etc. Now even if you dont think anything is going to happen in 2012 i urge you to read the article in thier FAQ. What if 2012 comes and goes and nothing happens? http://www.timeline2012....onent/content/article/89

Read the article and then look at this table(s): http://en.wikipedia.org/...for_population_to_double take a minute to philosophize about the effect an extra 1 million people would have on the planet... that many people, all have mouths, most have feet and hands. we effect the place we live in. we use resources, and we deplete the environment around us. Now lets think for a minute, population doesnt increase by a set amount, it goes up by a percentage, every person that is born has the desire to make thier own children, and thier children have the desire to have thier own children.

current world population is: 6,692,030,277 (2008 statistics) multiply that by the current growth rate of 1.17% and you have an extra 78 296 754 people (IN ONE YEAR!THATS ALMOST 4x THE POPULATION OF AUSTRALIA) if the growth rate were to stay at 1.17% p.a. the population would double in 59 years. Now what im getting at is that at SOME POINT, wether you like it or not there IS going to be a collapse of our modern society, we consume far too many resources and provide no solution to overpopulation. an example ill give: Once we reach the point of having consumed half the worlds resources (already?), in order to live the same lifestyle as we have in the past we would have to decrease our population at the same rate that its increased in previous usefull history (in terms of usefull or "applicable" statistics). we all know thats impossible, unless the government starts sterilizing people (No, i dont want to discuss NAU RFID).

Im not sure about the percentages of world resources that are left, current consumption etc. but at this massive world population resources dont/wont last long. (to understand this further, please watch the most important video)

I want to know. What is your opinion on sustainable off the grid communities like those planned on the www.timeline2012.net website? what do YOU think is going to happen in the next 10 years? do you think im crazy?

sources:
Timeline 2012 prsentation - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ8Tp0XAeI8
The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
www.google.com
www.wikipedia.org

I am moving here. Off the Grid: Life On The Mesa
http://www.snagfilms.com...he_grid_life_on_the_mesa

Excellent, excellent post!

I think many people want to get behind this idea, they just don't know how!

I need to start a foundation where you could donate an amount of money and join a self-sufficient community for life (as long as you worked for a certain amount of time), maybe $10,000 or so.

I fd it ultimatly ironic that a video like this has advertisements for wal-mart interspersed in it!!! wtf!!
god bless america?

No opinions on the info i presented? How do you feel about the collapse of modern society. which WILL happen.
large scale "useable" resources are limited. Lust is not.

czepa: forgive that..I definetly feel that for the most part those folk that live that way are there because they feel something is wrong with dociety as it is and I definetly agree... i myself havelived in some communities with a similar outlook on likfe.. But I chose to live in a plce where nature provides instead of society ..those folk depend on a supply of water from modern society or they couldn't live there..I definetly appreciete where they are at and the battle they wage to live with the bit of freedom they get from it..yes society is degrading and theere is big change in the works for our future as a species..I plan on covering myself with moss and disapearing into the woods..wether there are others there with me at that time or not...well when the time comes fate will see..I learn my craft and hope that that will help in the future that I see coming.
.honestly I'm scared

The doco that MV posted was not "off the grid" timeline 2012's goal is to connect spiritually informed people and bring them together to plan,organise and build true 100% "off the grid" communities in time for december 2012 by which time most of the members would have moved there. here is a brief overview: http://www.timeline2012....print/community-overview

^^How is this any different then jehovahs witnesses? Just another stupid cult hiding under the guise of sustainability because its a nice buzzword for hippies. Its too bad that people don't realize some people are really taking this 2012 stuff seriously and will seriously alter their lives in negative ways to deal with it. Hording food worrying being paranoid freaking out maybe even committing suicide. I think its a shame if someone quits their job as a doctor or lawyer or whatever and goes and joins a bunch of cultists. Unless it really does make them happier. Living lies makes lots of people happy that's the purpose of religions I guess..

Who sais living off the grid is so great anyway? Go to a developing country where people are living in slums with no running water and little to no electricity and see how easy life is. I happen to be proud of being a member of the human species. I like that we have running clean water and lots of food. I wish others in developing countries one day will also have running water and lots of food. These anti humanity cults have no solutions for world hunger. They have no solutions for environmental problems. There only solution is to go run off in the woods and dance around like hippies taking acid until they realize oh shit we don't know how to farm.

burnt, before you went along and read the title and responded to THAT, maybe you should have gone and read a few of the links i posted, or even the content - most of which had nothing to do with 2012

Let me adress the problems i have with this.
its different because it has a scientific backgroud. its based on real information.
ok, so you dont agree with the ideas behind why they want to build these communities then why not read this: http://www.timeline2012....onent/content/article/89 I STILL think that even if nothing special happens in 2012, it wont be long before over-population has a major effect on the world. i dont think that its possible to fully exhaust the worlds resource, because it will get to a point where there will not be enough to go around and cause a collapse (demand exceeding supply and supply not being able to keep up). you can already see things starting to change by the higher prices of everything. sure wages have increased too, but not equally across the board, and not as much as the cost of everyday items and groceries has risen. as resources become harder to find and harvest, the demand keeps rising. it cant stop. we are rapidly increasing demand at a rate that that is unacceptable. i think we can agree that doubling the population in 60 years is not acceptable. do you think that a global society that is in constant growth and DEPENDS on continued growth will never fail? the momentum is huge. it cant stop. but the resources can. watch all 8 parts of "the most important video you'll ever see" that has nothing to do with 2012 but it adresses things and explains them much more clearly than I.

again, if you read the content of my post you wouldnt be saying stuff about hippies running off into the woods taking acid, they have nothing to do with drugs, they advise everyone to live a drug free life. and NO they dont want to live with 0 technology. its about learning to survive without modern society, and migrating elsewhere whilst maintining as much technology as possible. I really thought this was an appropriate place to post this to have a logical discussion, not a debate about who can miss-interpret and blow out of proportion the most. life isnt a competition, i would really appreciate it if you could logically explain why these community projects are a bad idea, irrelevant of 2012 (read the links). We could both benefit from the conversation.

who cares about 2012?..were all being fucked right now either way.

"Who sais living off the grid is so great anyway? Go to a developing country where people are living in slums with no running water and little to no electricity and see how easy life is. I happen to be proud of being a member of the human species. I like that we have running clean water and lots of food. I wish others in developing countries one day will also have running water and lots of food. These anti humanity cults have no solutions for world hunger. They have no solutions for environmental problems. There only solution is to go run off in the woods and dance around like hippies taking acid until they realize oh shit we don't know how to farm."

Haha sad but true in most cases...
I dont think america has it right at all though..I think this place is backwards..but living in BC I have been to a few places similar to what you are talking about..most of them are that way and people end up fighting and relying on free food etc..

There are some exceptions though..

BC is awesome because it's all hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles of nothing but rainforest, mounains and beaches..so it's a good place to attempt sustainability and get away from a the corruption of government run law.

WTF?

Living off the grid means your produce your own power, water and food, not that you leach it off of other people or simply go without. That is what "self-sufficient" means!

I think some of y'all are thinking of this in the wrong way.

I think its wrong to promote communities based on sustainability without having a realistic understanding of the environment. Anyone who believes in 2012 obviously has no conception about how reality really works and I would not trust their judgement on solving social or environmental problems.

We as a species on the whole need to be more sustainable. But its not going to happen by brainwashing people to be afraid of mystical events in space. To solve environmental problems and live more sustainably we need more technology and more education. That won't happen if everyone runs away from one another and goes living in 'off the grid communities'. Its fine to live off the grid if you want but its also ignorant and naive to ignore the couple billion living in cities who need things like sewage treatment. Its also ignorant and naive to ignore people living in cold climates who depend on heat for the winter.

I mean there are so many issues and complications that would arise if everyone all of a sudden dropped technology. Technology keeps millions of people alive everyday. Our misuse of technology is creating problems but the solution is not to turn our backs on one another and go live in caves but to work with one another to advance our species in a mutually beneficial way with each other and the environment.

Yes I agree society at large needs to change..but some of the small groups of people who are trying out new things I think reaize this..it should be viewed as an experiment in new ways of living..and whenthey do stumble upon things that work then they can share that with larger groups of people..thats how we make progress..you need to start small.

Anway I am concerned most with just getting away from the rediculous law..not starting some new age environmental cult..I just want to be as free as possible.

Damn that sounds fun!
Sign me up!

looking over that website it doesn't seem they are just some hippy acid cult. however its what i would consider an environmental cult. what i mean is environmentalism gone wrong. environmentalism often goes wrong (greenpeace who i have major issues with the way they do business) carbon credits (a complete and utter failure of an idea) and the list goes on. environmentalism needs to succeed but when its wrapped up in 2012 and mysticism it will fail.

anyway i won't stay involved in this discussion as long as its topic is 2012 its too frustrating. if its about building sustainable communities then i am up for further discussion.