Having had what I can only assume to be a breakthrough last Thursday night, I decided to give it another go about ten minutes ago and had my ass handed to me.

I was entirely convinced I was about to be possessed by an evil that I feel was the basis of pennywise, the clown from the Steven King book. I haven't felt fear of that magnitude since early childhood. Over I regained control of my body, I legit ran out out of the room after flinging the door open that my cat was desperately clawing at.

Talk about a humbling experience.

Lol! Yeah it's just the fear/Adrenaline/fight or flight mode, makes it feel like something very wrong or bad is happening, it's just in the mind, nothing evil to worry about lol. I understand the feeling though lol.

Hey bro.

Yeah the fear factor you shouldn't worry too much about.

Whenever I get the fear factor I tell it to bring it on and is that all they got? I've never ever had issues when i give myself over to it. I have no fear of death so the experience can absolutely take me anywhere it wants with no hinderance from me .

I love it

Be careful, since you might get what you are asking for

Sorry for potentially planting this thought in your head, but death is not the worst thing that could happen to you (mind, conciousness, soul?), what happens after - this is the biggest question.

My point is: I agree that surrendering to the experience (and being not afraid of death) certainly helps with trips overall, but I think one shouldn't get too cocky with "bring it on" attitude, else be ready to face the consequences.

That's more of what I was concerned with, the aftermath of allowing what felt like an evil spirit to influence me. It felt like a being attempting to occupy my mind/body, and of course the harder I fought the more intimidating its presence.

This is the second experience of this variety that I have encountered, though this time the presence felt much more formidable. I suppose I have some work to do on myself.

To reiterate, it wasn't a fear of death by any stretch of the imagination. It felt more like being touched by the mind of true evil, that potential that lurks within all of us.

Indeed, that was one lesson i got early on in my Aya experimentation, don't get cocky lol.

Personally I don't believe it's all just 'in your head'. It may be in your mind, but your mind may not be limited to your head at all. Entities can have an existence outside of the imagination, and like any ecosystem there are whole classes or strata of organisms, some not so amicable to us.

In our waking state we are granted some level of mental protection via the body, so long as we don't violate any natural laws. In the DMT space we've circumvented our own natural protection to a degree and find ourselves in the mental realm entirely, however I think you're alright so long as you don't invite anything in directly. In the waking state it takes breaking the natural barrier through violating laws, or invocations, to create the doorway for possession.

It is part of the reason why I won't touch DMT again. I perceived danger and realized I don't have the knowledge to handle it and I can't be certain anyone else has either - if it goes wrong, what are you going to do? That's a risk I'm not prepared to take again.

I took Aya/oral DMT daily/near daily for 4 years, never once perceived any legit sense of danger, it was all only coming from my own mind, once i was able to calm myself and clear my mind and stop focusing on the fear, the negative feelings would go away.

I'm not saying i know what is or isn't, all i'm saying is that for me personally, demons do not exist, i don't believe in them, i've never experienced them, what i've gotten from Aya does not at all seem like possession and seems more like the Holy Spirit imo, i just let it do it's thing, let my body move in weird ways, it feels good, feels natural, feels right, doesn't feel the least bit evil to me lol.

If this kind of thing concerns you, taking care of set and setting is crucial as others have said. Taking care of one's self through exercise, meditation, contact with the outdoors, and other factors can play a huge part in how comfortable you are in that unfamiliar space.

I'm not particularly spiritual, but before my last aya journey I did all of these things, took a salt water bath, wore white and green, smudged my space/self with sage, and had what I considered a powerful, familiar item with me. I also played and sang music, something that is a large part of my every day life. It was my most grounded, enjoyable experience to date. Even if all of that stuff is placebo, if it helps you in the journey, who cares?

On a practical note, I am a believer that strenuous exercise prepares the body well. If you are used to an elevated heart rate and really filling your lungs to their capacity, your body is much more ready for a difficult experience, which translates to your mind being more prepared for the experience as well. All my opinion, of course, and most of my experience is with Aya/oral DMT

This and integration. I would advise taking time off the substance, if you feel any kind of evilness within experience, and try to let the experience explain itself to you and bring out the seed of understanding.

I agree... With part of what ur sayin
"Demons" are real... Or at least evil is idk how ever u wanna label it... Stay up for a week on Methamphetamine bein tormented by Shadow ppl then tel me demons aren't real...tho i dont feel in anyway such things are involved with the DMT... Thats jus my opinion... I will say i feel like whatever is happening n what im seeing n experiencing under the influence of the Spice is real...alive...definitely has a mind of its own... Not sure exactly what words to use but i came to this realization during one of my first few experiences...i thought to myself "its alive" as I was watching the show... I don't think the things im seeing can b conceived by my mind I think I'm gettin a glimpse of something else... Another place... A realm maybe thats goin on around us at all times n we're jus not aware of it until we take this medicine into our bodies... Idk... I haven't experienced anything "Evil" on DMT tho...smart ass?...yeah... Being playful n kinda tryna act sinister to mess with me?...yeah... But not evil n ive never felt like anything in there was tryna harm me or had bad or negative intentions for me...

In a way it really is all in our head. Is there a way to show that the universe is not contained in a computing device?

Big bang = Hit <enter>

Demons are real only if you give them power, just like a bully who thrives on weakness and fear. Stick up to bullies and your fear and weakness are gone and the bullies power is removed. Then it is time to take a step back and see the silliness of it all and laugh it off. Just another game.

I feel like there are internal bullies, internal demons in some people. Fighting your demons. Quit fighting them. Remove yourself from the game if you no longer wish to participate. You remove all the power and take it back for yourself. Stop thinking in terms of demons and bullies and fear, start thinking about other things. The more you think about these negativities, the more power you give them. This could very well be the lesson at hand.

Accepting these demons as something connected to yourself stops the cycle. I feel like if you can see the demons in yourself and acknowledge them, you begin to truly accept yourself as a whole. There is something to be appreciated about the demons we carry. They help us to, at least they try. They place forward what we need to work on ourselves the most. They hold hard lessons and can be great teachers if only a new perspective can be found.

So yeah.... laugh with the demons. These demons may be something else entirely than the way you are perceiving them now. They may be your greatest teacher! They may be the ones that push you towards something greater within yourself.

Just a thought....

I'd like to thank everybody for the incredible responses, I can agree with most of them.

To address some of it:

I like to think of myself as a generally healthy person, mentally and physically. I work a physically demanding job, live as honest a life as I know how to, and remain supportive of my children and ex-wife. I don't consume "addictive" substances regularly: I will have a drink a 2-3 times a month or take a few grams of kratom when I've had a particularly rough or painful week. I smoalk spice every now and then, but not with enough regularity to lead me to believe I should take a break. It's only been 5-6 times total over the course of several months, all but once sub-breakthrough. I live alone in a place I consider safe, with few reminders of any previous mental or emotional pains.

That being said, physically, I wouldn't expect my diet to be an item on anyone's self-improvement list, though I may be underweight instead of over. Mentally, my job and home life are pretty undemanding despite my supposed intelligence. Spiritually, I am not what people would call religious, and despite an interest in spiritual matters, I have never committed to a structured/consistent spiritual practice.

I have always recognized that psychedelics are not toys. I generally don't go in without hours or even days of serious consideration, which I suppose is my way of ensuring sound set and setting. They have always heightened my interest in spirituality, as I'm sure is common, and the experience prior to this one left me with the district impression that it was time to learn meditation.

Whether this demon was internal or external matters very little to me, fact being that I was grossly unprepared for whatever it was. I've had difficult psilocybin trips, but not of this intensity. Part of it seemed trying to convince me that I had no idea what I was getting myself into, what I was "playing" with, and I'd have to agree: I felt more defenseless than I ever imagined possible.

Lately I've been thinking that this is what fear does on a fundamental level, and what I experienced was the result of looking at fear through a metaphysical microscope with all else stripped away. It's difficult for me to admit or even sometimes determine what I may be afraid of, and how it was that I overcame fears as a child, whatever they may have been.

U kinda jus told my story...Alot of similarities there... I can understand your concern as these experiences are very real sometimes...Id definitely contemplate it for some time...Jus remember that light trumps darkness literally every time... When things in my trips try n act sinister n mess with me I'll shrug em off n "keep it movin"...they're not welcome n I have no interest ...even if it wins a battle I'm determined to not let it(Evil) win the war...
Like DmnStra8 said dont feed em... Yes easier said than done but you got this... 👽✌

I believe in that and have that kind of 'cockyness' because of my belief. I 100% believe we are all one branching out to experience a 'life'. So all in all nothing sinister can happen to me as there is no point doing it to oneself.

I do think that if you have doubts in the after life definitely don't be 'cocky'. I hugely respect the DMT realms and entities but i know at the end of the day they have no more or less power than I do. It's very hard to explain but I find that being 'cocky' takes me straight through with no BS. This is just from my experience.

Peace to you all

Although I have religious views and am not a materialist - overall, I would lean towards the view that such "demons" encountered in hyperspace are just different aspects of your unconscious, which take on visual and archetypal forms, sometimes using images from the collective unconscious (which contains our mythology). Although this is just my speculation.

That doesn't mean these can't have effects in the real world - just look at schizophrenics, and people suffering psychosis, who often behave according to what voices and visions tell them to do. It's important to tame, or at least not to empower, these aspects of yourself, and part of that involves perceiving them.

Even if what you experienced is unpleasant, you've increased your knowledge of yourself.



I have this exact sensation relatively often in dreams/nightmares (probably once a month or so), although this evil itself is not always personified.

I feel like these evil potentialities exist within ourselves (and inside all humans). The unconscious interprets these aspects of our soul (both good and evil ones) visually, and as beings with their own intelligence and form. And writers like Stephen King are able to tap into these unconscious representations in their creative work - and this is how they resonate with such large audiences: because our unconscious recognizes them as aspects we are already familiar with.

Dreams and psychedelics allow us to bring our conscious mind into this part of ourselves we usually would never perceive consciously.

Interesting point of view. Could you discuss why you think this is more detail - or have you done that somewhere in the forum?

It's one of the more interesting questions in the world, although I'm currently leaning towards the view that they are part of the unconscious. We still need an explanation for the commonality and weirdness of many of the reports.

The one thing I wonder is if people from different cultures had these experiences, would they report similar or different entities to people from our own culture? If the entities are similar, then it would require more explanation (beyond simply our unconscious interpreting the experience according to our cultural background) how this could be.

Yes to this. Truly the "evil" archetype.

And yes to whoever it was that made the comment regarding schizophrenia. DmT, more than any other psychedelic, has often left me with the distinct feeling of "this is what schizophrenia must be like". Whether or not that thought is a product of the typical warnings regarding the triggering of mental disorders by psychedelic experiences is up for debate I suppose.

Regardless, during these experiences, (in both circumstances) it seems in the moment, a very real possibility that my mind could become stuck in this mode; tuned into this evil frequency, offering immense power in exchange for the use of my body. I don't think it's too difficult for the imagination to see the possibility of the reality behind that.