Does anyone know if Phalaris arundinacea var 'Picta' contains any alkaloids?

This was selectively bred for variegation, not useful if you're after alkaloids.

There is an experience report or two on erowid with people reporting success with this varietal, but my understanding is that it is generally low alkaloid, and not really worth pursuing when more reliable strains are readily available.

There are many varieties of picta. Some well known ones, as well as new ones bred wild.

Some of them shall contain a good profile (as also e.g. a trip report on erowid suggests). I wanted to make an analysis of many different known pictas, so I ordered many varieties from a big distributor in France. But he never sent them...(fortunately I didn't pay in advance)

The big advantage of a picta is IMHO, that it doesn't produce viable seeds, so it is waaayyy easier to grow, as with the others you have to always stay on alert and not let any produce seeds, as this will contaminate your clones. I really underestimated this point, as I had to discover this year, how problematic this is. You basically can never be away for a longer time...

Also just from viewing my picta grow in relation to my normal arundinaceas, the picta grows more leafs, less stems, and spreads faster (this was actually a specific breeding goal of the pictas, for their usage as ornamental grass).



Well if any of the established picta clones would have a proper alkaloid profile, then that would definitely make the acquisition quite easier, as you could be 100% sure it is this specific clone, when ordering from your garden supply store. With the normal Arundinaceas it is problematic: If they seeded at any time, they are contaminated. And as also reports from this forum describe: It can happen, that the specific "Appleseed" clone you bought, isn't it anymore, as somewhere in the growing line someone had a mishap, and they seeded.

As I now had to look for my plants all the year, I can say that this is actually quite a task, IMHO. So I can well understand that it can happen easily at some point in time, that a grass seeded. The big advantage of the pictas is, that they are infertile, and so this cannot happen.

But if they all go by the name 'Picta', you don't know what profile you're getting.

The well known ones (with specific ornamental features) have distinctive names, like Arctic Sun (has a yellowish tone), Dwarf Garters, Feesey (has a red tone), etc. which stand for a certain specific genetic clone of picta. (basically the same as we have "Big Medicine" or "Turkey Red" )

I just don't know if any of the well known established pictas have by coincidence an usable profile. That's what I wanted to test, which failed...

They can't be entirely infertile, or they wouldn't have been able to breed those named varieties.

They still make pollen, or whatever this is called for grasses. So I guess their pollen can fertilize a conventional Arundinacea, and that's how they breed new Pictas.

Thanks a lot for your specific and profound answers. How great informations, these are.
I just didn't get the point with contamination, because of seeding. If you just have one kind of Phalaris around and this one seeds then it will remain this genuine Phalaris strain, doesn't it? as long as no other strains breed in.. please explain
(By the way its a funny information, because I looked all year around for seeds in the flowers and wondered how they could hide and sneak away in an unobserved moment :'D)

I will simply do an extraction with my Phalaris and test it if its potent. Unfortunately I dont know the strain, because i found it at the side of a path in my hometown.

What is an average (minimum) amount of phalaris grass to get a sufficient extraction yield?

The picta var. 'Feesey', possibly sometimes also known as 'Raspberries and Cream' is purported to give a better chance of finding desirable alkaloids in a useful(ish) quantity.



You'll still likely be needing a couple of kilos of the stuff. Look at doing a TLC microanalysis before embarking on a massive waste of time and resources. Multiple specimens can be tested simultaneously before homing in on the specific active culprits.

What do you mean by contaminatin your clones? As long as it only fertilizes itself there won't be a change in the chemistry, will there?

Nope already fertilizing themselves will create offspring with another alkaloid profile. That's why you HAVE to clone them. These were basically Appleseeds findings during his tests.

Anecdotal this does not seem to be the case for "Turkey Red". But you will additionally always have the problem of wild Arundinaces "pollen" getting on your plants...

And by contaminate I mean, that these seeds in the middle of your plants, will also start to grow, and will look exactly the same, but not have the proper alkaloid profile anymore, and these also spread, and new seeds eventually fall on the floor, after some time, the plants with a good profile can well become marginal...

I once thought the biggest problem of using phalaris as source, was the tedious cloning process, until you finally have the desired sized area.

But honestly, they spread pretty fast (especially the pictas). So yes, you may need a few years patience but then you have a lot.

But making sure that they never ever seed during this time, is almost an impossibility, as people want e.g. to go in holidays. During that time the plants easily would have seeded...

This sounds very intelligent, can you give me a short explanation how to do this at home?

Instructions are included with the kit:
https://bunkpolice.com/shop/gemini-package/

There is also a nice video overview:
https://bunkpolice.com/skylab-basics/

So it's more or less just an ehrlich or marquis test in order to detect if there are any tryptamines present?

To add to what dreamer042 said, and break it down a little more...

1. Order a TLC-kit (This linked option doesn’t include the reagents, but is half the cost:
TLC kit

2. Perform a quick extraction on a small amount (1g dry is enough) of each plant specimen you want to test.
A quick-and-dirty A/B or STB will lead to a much clearer test result than a simple plant matter soak.
Use a narrow necked glass bottle and minimal NPS (to ensure the sample is more concentrated.

3. Run a test.
3a. Dip a new microcappilary (included in kit) directly into the thin NPS layer from each extraction. These are the samples which you will make spots on the TLC cards with. Ideally, always make one of your spots on each card from a known plant (i.e. Acacia confusa - Remember you only need a gram or so.)
3b. Enclose the now spotted card in the developing chamber, and wait for the eluent to travel almost to the top of the card.
3c. Remove and then illuminate the card with the UV light to see if any of your other samples have spots at matching heights with the Acacia confusa (indicating the potential presence of DMT or NMT - the higher and lower spots, respectively). Darker spots indicate a higher concentration.

* Batches - The cards aren’t cheap, and you might want to test a lot of individual plants. In this case, you could run batch extractions. Combine several specimens and extract them together in one jar. If the spot from that batch produces a hit, then you can go back later and test the individuals from that batch to isolate the successful one(s).

thank you a lot, i will do this