Thank you! I broke a GVG once and after that I thought, "better always have a spare." I understand where everyone is coming from with the GVG. The GVG is proven technology and WAS the best. Over the years I heard people get excited about new methods all the time, yet most of them turn out inferior to the GVG. You hear people talking about how great e-juice is, and someone asks, "have you broke through with it" and more often then not the answer is, "not yet, I'm still working up the courage" and I thought, "whatever." FWIW, I did break through on half a toke with e-juice a couple times, and thought, "this is the future!!" and it was, until my coil burnt/clogged and I wasted a lot of material. I still don't think the Yocan is perfect, you still need a scale, you still need to load it one hit at a time, and it doesn't look like you are just smoking nicotine. So I'll still be reading peoples adventures with other vape technology, but for now the Yocan is simple, efficient, reliable, and a bargain.

ETERNAL!

I was wanting to ask on your other thread but I don't have full access to do so.

What's your experience on the difference between using the Yocan for pure spice vs your shatter recipe? Is the latter's trip duration considerably longer? Is the quality different?

I still don't get how exactly the setup looks like. And on the pics you just cannot see any such details.

How I understood it from all your explanations:

It is like a cup. But there are four holes in the sidewall for the coil wires and also air enters through them and exits to the top. The coils are in the cup, as in other common wax devices, but are completely encapsulated so that no wire gets in contact with the substance.

Is that right?

At what height from the bottom are these sideholes? And at what height are the coils from the bottom?

IMHO if it is like that this could well be a benefit, for as I discussed before, IMHO the most important thing is to get fresh air directly to the substance surface layer, which would happen then.


Unrelated:
What I find strange is,that noone yet made a small heat exchanger, cooling the outgoing air a bit and heating the incoming air. Should need less power and smoother to vape.

Also offtopic, but got an idea for two (novel?) atomizer teks, which could IMHO work pretty good.

E.g. using a short and thinwalled Ti metal tube (5mm ID) like 3cm long, heated by coil around the outside. On the inside is a thin glass fiber fleece (totally heat resistant and easily replaceable, I thought of a glass fiber filter). Now the substance like with a wick, gets soaked over the surface of this thin fleece, when on melting temp. When you then heat on vape temp, you have quite a big evaporation area (around 5cm2) and air directly flowing over the critical evaporation zone. But the loading ofthis thing with substance could be problematic. One could make a hole in the middle to drop stuff in there, which has t be closed for usage.

The other one would basically be an electronic foil vaper (a few cm by a few cm). As I calculated, it would be possible to have a Titanium foil so that you can directly connect it to your mod,and TC would be possible like that. Again I would add a thin glass fleece on top of the foil,so that the material gets equally dispersed and doesn't run, and about 1-2mm above it a glass. Giving also an nice flow of air over the whole evaporation area. So basically a flat TI tunnel with a glass roof.
Loading would be dead simple with this one: Lift glass top, sprinkle material on it and close again.
Especially this idea I find very intriguing, as you could easily get like 10cm2 or more evaporation surface, easily TC controlled with any mod. Theoretically one could have big evaporation rates like that even in low temp setting, where the substance doesn't burn.

With both ideas, a heat exchanger could easily be added into the design.

BTW: With the first solution a direct connection of the Ti-tube to the mod wouldn't work (way not enough Ohm), therefore the coils wrapped around.

No idea if this would work. But I like making new ideas all the time (but don't have the time to realize them all). But I may really try to manifest the "E-foil atomizer" ;-)

You can get 0.01mm Ti foil. That would e.g. give a 2cm*16cm surface, if you wanna get 0.25Ohm (similar to the QQ, to also power it around 50-60W). Or you meander it and get a 4*8cm device, or...

That would be plenty of evaporation surface (32cm2).

No it's not a cup. It's a chamber with exposed wires and quartz rods. The wires travel out through the bottom in four holes creating the airflow and making it leakable also.

Ah, so it's nothing for low viscosity substances?

What exactly is meant by quartz rod. The coil in a quartz tube?

No I don't think it would be suited.. The wires goes around those small rods made of quartz..

Ahh, now I got it. Thanks very much for explaining this to such an imbecile like me...

But what exactly is then different to other wax atomizers, as I thought they are basically all made in that way, or not?

Yes - I think the Yocan just has the right temp for DMT and no settings so it just works as is with fiddling around - and it's cheap and pretty well made compared to its price. So I guess that's why it has won popularity. But many others would work as well I guess..

I fully agree and had the same issue with e-juice. Crucial to know is which atomizer works reliable. Personally I don't need the Yocan to be super stealthy and wouldn't advice anyone smoking in public etc.

I recently purchased the DCv3, although I haven't had the chance to use it yet. After reading Kable's report as well as a few others on the nexus, I'm starting to wonder if the Yocan would be a better option for me. Has anyone had the chance to use both and compare the two?

This will be my first journey, so I'd love to have an easy to use and reliable device.

Thanks!

[quote=some one]
I have two more one hit breakthroughs to report the Yocan Evolve Plus XL.

FWIW I think the Plus XL is going to be my go too machine over the Plus. I only like it a little better than the regular Plus but I think it is better. The extra coils aren't really necessary but because it's slightly wider on top and bottom it's easier to load and less tippy on the table. With the adjustable airflow on the XL fully open it feels like maybe 30% better airflow than with the regular Plus, so there is less of the "I'm suffocating" feeling. The magnet top and the lanyard are cool too. The Plus XL only costs $2 more than the regular plus. If you were going to carry it in your pocket then the Plus might still be preferable since it's thinner.

Speaking of public DMT, I was hitting a CCELL Palm loaded with DMT on top of low dose shrooms at a Skrillex show. Blue lightning constructed aliens were flying at me amongst the lasers! PEAK EXPERIENCE! At least until my CCELL clogged. However, while it lasted the CCELL was so efficient and literally in the palm of my hand, and it was so cool to be able to sip repeated subthreshold hits as desired. I wouldn't have attempted to do the same with my Yocan. I was wondering if it was plant solids or oils that were clogging the wick and if exceptionally clean DMT might have prevented it. If anyone knows I'd love to hear.

Makes sense with the pros you describe with the XL. Especially the airflow I think. It's not bad on the Plus though I think. You miss the possibility to mess around with the ceramic coils if going with the XL though.

BTW (sorry a bit offtopic):

Did again quite some tests last night, and just have to say, I cannot anymore be high all the time, just for testing...

What would you think could be a good substance for tests (non psychoactive), for not wasting any precious material? It should also be pretty temp sensitive, in that it starts to burn easily, when too much heat is applied and should also already vape at lower temps. So basically with similar properties.

What I again discovered last night is really, that blowing instead of sucking drastically improves vapor production.

(Attention boring Text Wall coming...)

BTW: Did last night tests with the G9 enail dab rig, the QQ, the motar and the MBT.

And as strange as it seems, in the end, I still found the MBT to be the best one (if you blow into it), if your goal is not to burn any substance at all. The QQ is just not really usable for TC. I always burn substance, no matter what. The MBT seems to be the most evenly tempered one,but unfortunately still far from good IMHO. That's why IMHO it needs an atomizer design, where such different temp zones cannot exist (which is why I came up with the tube and foil atomizer ideas)

The motar lacks any TC and is heightened where the coil is, which is totally impractical for small amounts of substances. But other than that I found it actually pretty decent.If they would correct these points it could be a blast (except that it is making an annoying whistling sound, when you draw...)

What I discovered with all of them is, that quite some material condenses on the "cup" walls and wont evaporate anymore from there. Also with all of them the middle is the hottest, so that there it quickly evaps, but then not much anymore as a lot of substance creeps/condenses to the walls and the middle remains dry. So then you have to increase temp, that it also evaps there, but this leads unavoidable to some burnt material.
If you, like with a dab rig, constantly move a pin around in it, smearing the stuff from the corners/walls into the middle, where it is hot and no substance anymore, it works pretty good. But that is a tedious process and should not be needed. E.g. one could theoretically have some electronic means for this (e.g. like in an ice machine). I also tried adding some small metals balls into the cups and wiggling the cup while inhaling to improve this smearing. And yes, it improved a bit, but not worth it.
I could imagine adding a small metal bar and controlling it magnetically from outside so that it rotates constantly could work, but quite an effort...


Especially on the enail this was very extreme,as the central nail is very hot, but the cup around where your substance melts into is way way cooler. But I already asked in another thread about this problem.

So my conclusions are: I will definitely try to make the e-foil atomizer. But from SS316 not titanium. Simply because much cheaper, and SS has more resistance, so the device need no to be overly large. I will probably make two foil surfaces about 1-2mm apart, as mentioned before with either glass fiber paper or ceramic paper on the surfaces. Also planned with some simple heat exchange between incoming and outgoing air. And I try what difference it makes,if I would incorporate a pump to blow, instead of sucking. E.g. I could even imagine it could be beneficial to have many small holes in the foils and their mounting plates, so that the air comes in everywhere. This should help in not getting high temp differences, which would be unavoidable if you make one long part where the air gets it at one side and out the other.
The TC will always control the mean temp of your "coil"! (if one area of the coil is colder, then another area is hotter)

BTW: Another idea would be to heat the substance as liquid to a good evap temp (e.g. going through a small heater tube), where it will not yet burn and then spray it into fine droplets, which should then immediately evap. The second part is e.g. used in some oil nebulizers for aroma oil, where a small air pump disperses the liquid.


Oh boy...me and my stupid ideas...

This is what i always suspected with the plus. But i haven't used it yet. Thanks for pointing it out. The plus XL is the device to buy then.

I have only used my GVG once so far, with .022... AND NOW I SEE THIS.... GVG ON SALE CHEAP... Inquire within

At least you didn't buy two!

I used the GVG on several occasions, but don't own one.

If you do and stopped using it for DMT you can always use it to vape Cannabis I guess..

As you may remember I thought about the idea of using a foil instead of a coil as an atomizer, which should get you a much higher surface area.
Then I thought about using a mesh, and then discovered that there do already exist mesh atomizers. And they are not even costly.
E.g. the Vandyvape Mesh. As I read works like a breeze with an SS316 mesh in TC mode. There are many different mesh sizes available.

A pic here:


I wouldn't think this specific mesh atomizer setup is ideal for DMT, but one could use another one (e.g. with more mesh area).

So in theory one would preheat the mesh (with quite a big surface), soak desired DMT dosage in the mesh, and then set vape temp and go. It should heat very fast (as it has practically no thermal mass), and has a large evaporation area. And as it is temp controlled there should be no burning. One would just have to experiment how much mesh is needed to hold how much DMT. As if much of the mesh is not soaked in DMT, then obviously there would be problems with having the same temp over the mesh (the TC only controls the "mean temp" of the coil)

Anyone ever tried such a mesh atomizer for DMT?

But I also see one problem, namely that the vapor gets in contact with the cold wall, where probably a lot would recondense.

So in this relation a foil vape could be better.

I just drew a crude setup, how I could imagine one could do it with foil, so that the vapor just gets limited by the foil and no cold glass walls etc. when air gets drawn through the system.

In the left part the SS316 foil tube gets directly connected to the mod instead of a coil.

The right part is a heat exchanger, which I could think could be beneficial. As it cools the vapor down, and at the same time preheats the air.

Again, just my rumblings...

But would be really interested if anyone ever tested a mesh atomizer.

Interesting design with the Mesh vape.. Nice experimenting.. I was thinking in regards to the Motar: if you heat up the glass walls with a torch lighter before using it the melted DMT will probably not creep up on the sides?

Well, then you kinda basically use it like a torch dab nail. IMHO very difficult timing wise to get the walls like that to the correct temp, that they are not too hot or too cold.

That's why I like the idea, with the foil or mesh, where the "cup" or whatever holds the substance is at the same time the heating element (temp controlled). Like that you should get quite precise temps on the substance itself, as there's nothing in between to cause a temp diff.

The only problem with the mesh I see in this relation is the connection of the mesh, as probably there, some DMT will creep to... (at least in the way these standard mesh atomizers are made)

Maybe adding some glass fiber paper, or wool, or silica wick as additional small storage element would help in preventing creeping with a bigger mesh grid? (One could e.g. squeeze it in between two meshes)

With the meshes you could anyways play. E.g. you could also kinda roll it up and have it along a tube or cross to the tube, so using it similar to a GVG. But the tube would ideally have a very low heating mass, a very good thermal transfer (or a very bad one), and no electric conduction. As otherwise the DMT will creep there...
(Hmm, maybe some Mica could work here...)


Edit:
So I ordered a few stuff for testing the mesh idea with some self constructed atomizer. But I also ordered one el cheapo ($12) chinese mesh atomizer (Yosta IGVI P2), which has a prebuilt SS mesh, so that handling would be super easy. Disadvantage is the quite smaller surface compared to self made mesh atomizers. But from the few pics about it, it seems the way the mesh is arranged and the air goes through, should IMHO be almost ideal for vaping DMT or other such critical substances. One would probably just have to replace the cotton with some other means (and probably putting it inside the mesh coil).

So I will report back.